EBOLA Church Communion Vector?

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
I don't know how many of you have thought of this, but today my adult son and i are out of town where he'll be participating in an organ scholarship competition tomorrow. Since the church where he'll be playing is Episcopal, we got here in time to attend the services.

I grew up Methodist, (but a very evangelical Methodist church---a friend of mine who visited once said it was "the most Baptist Methodist church I've ever seen"), but had also visited / attended Baptist and Presbyterian churches, and of late have visited Episcopal, Anglican, and Catholic as well. Of course, Methodist ritual comes down FROM Episcopal / Anglican which derives from its Catholic origins.

In the Methodist, Baptist, and Presbyterian churches, communion is served by offering tiny little wafers of unleavened bread, about the size of a saccharine tablet, which each parishioner picks up for him / herself off a tray (platen). In Episcopal or Catholic churches, there is a round, thin wafer marked with a cross (the Host), usually put on the tongue or into the hands of the communicants by the priest / pastor. In one Episcopal church I visited, they had an actual LOAF of bread (regular bread, not unleavened, which kind of destroys the whole point) and each communicant handled the loaf and pulled off a piece for themselves.

As for the 'wine' (which is NOT wine but grape juice in Methodist, Baptist, and Presbyterian churches I have visited but actual wine in Episcopal / Anglican / Catholic), in the first three Protestant churches mentioned I usually see the liquid served in trays that are passed around, which contain tiny one-sip-size plastic disposable cups--you pick one up, drink, and return the empty cup to the tray. Sometimes the cups are passed out and you hold yours till everyone has theirs, then all drink at once and put them in the little "cup-holders" on the back of the pews.

But in Episcopal churches I have visited (I understand Catholic only allows the PRIESTS to drink from the cup; the congregation only gets the bread / Hosts), the wine is SHARED IN A COMMON CUP THAT IS PASSED AROUND TO ALL COMMUNICANTS, and the servers only WIPE THE RIM OF THE CUP BETWEEN EACH DRINKER WITH A CLOTH.

Today I was "going" to take Communion---until I realized we would all be drinking from the same cup.

I did not dare.


I wonder if folks have thought about the dangers of this as a disease vector?

I also wonder if the CHURCHES themselves have thought of it?
 

Hognutz

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Uh oh, I took Communion this morning......Well at least we didn't drink,we dipped the clean bread.
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
I never drink directly from the cup at a Catholic Communion.

I dunk the Host in the cup. Some people look at me funny but that is the way we did it back in the day.

Our current Priest puts the Host in your hands. In the old days they would put in on your tongue.

YMMV
 
Uh oh, I took Communion this morning......Well at least we didn't drink,we dipped the clean bread.

In the Episcopal Church, there is no requirement to drink from the cup. One can dip the host or pass on the wine altogether. Alcoholics eschew the cup and many folks I know dip because they do not want to drink from a common cup.
 

Hermantribe

Veteran Member
I never take the Blood of Christ at Mass, because of all the other people who have touched the cup. Most have already taken the Host in their possibly dirty hands and the touched the cup with their hands and mouth. My family only takes the Host by mouth. At least the (oh why do we need them???) Extraordinary ministers use hand sanitizer before touching the cup with blessed Hosts in it.
 

Garryowen

Deceased
Altar wine generally has extra alcohol added to it, perhaps as an aid in disinfecting, but that would not help the outside of the cup at all. I'm not at all sure that 20% alcohol would be sufficient to kill bacteria or virii.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
When I was an altar boy back in the early 60s there was wine (it had to be real wine, never grape juice) and water in cruets and only the priest drank the wine.
The people got the host only.
I guess things have changed but I don't think it is a requirement to drink anything during communion at a Roman Catholic service. Maybe it is in the Eastern or Orthodox rites?
I think it changed back in the 70s that wine became optional.
I remember wine and water cruets that were used for the priest only and a gold plated patten (plate) that I would hold under the chin of those receiving communion in case the host dropped.

Credence%20Table-5.jpg


Saying that, you probably have about the same chance of catching something as sitting in row after row of pews and having people cough and sneeze on you from behind. :lol:
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
Has anyone read Pat Conroy's book The Great Santini? While not autobiographical, Conroy borrows heavily from his own childhood.

Including a discussion of the proper way to take Communion: whether one lets the Host dissolve in one's mouth, or whether one is allowed to "chew" the Host and what exactly does this mean for the chewer? Or the Host?

And what happens if you "keep" the Host in your mouth, don't eat it - and take it out later?

And the wine - if one is an alcoholic, is wine an appropriate Blood?

The whole narrative is VERY funny. http://books.google.com/books?id=5CvjFcsXzDIC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=the+great+santini+communion&source=bl&ots=1rEDhGe36e&sig=EUOHugali_YjRhO3qz8-1Ny0DkI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2L8xVPOmAte1yASGnoGQBw&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the%20great%20santini%20communion&f=false

I've seen the Host. Owner was seen carrying a plate out to the trash after his Communion (he helps out during clean up.) In carelessness during dumping he dropped one of the Host on the ground.

Ever the scrounge, I picked it up after. I NEVER forget when or where food is dropped.

It tasted like stale bread.

But I think for Owner during his church, it means much more.

Dobbin
 

FireDance

TB Fanatic
Has anyone read Pat Conroy's book The Great Santini? While not autobiographical, Conroy borrows heavily from his own childhood.

Including a discussion of the proper way to take Communion: whether one lets the Host dissolve in one's mouth, or whether one is allowed to "chew" the Host and what exactly does this mean for the chewer? Or the Host?

And what happens if you "keep" the Host in your mouth, don't eat it - and take it out later?

And the wine - if one is an alcoholic, is wine an appropriate Blood?

The whole narrative is VERY funny. http://books.google.com/books?id=5CvjFcsXzDIC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=the+great+santini+communion&source=bl&ots=1rEDhGe36e&sig=EUOHugali_YjRhO3qz8-1Ny0DkI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2L8xVPOmAte1yASGnoGQBw&ved=0CBy4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the%20great%20santini%20communion&f=false

I've seen the Host. Owner was seen carrying a plate out to the trash after his Communion (he helps out during clean up.) In carelessness during dumping he dropped one of the Host on the ground.

Ever the scrounge, I picked it up after. I NEVER forget when or where food is dropped.

It tasted like stale bread.

But I think for Owner during his church, it means much more.

Dobbin

Pat Conroy is a hoot and can really paint a mood.

I think about all the churches at this time of year. Baptists shake hands etc, etc. I refuse to attend when cold and flu season strikes.
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
I recommend Vodka from now on for Communion.

Popov is the brand of choice.

C'mon, at least Skol brand, maybe Wolfschmidt's.

Heck, the Catholics could afford even Stoli or Grey Goose.

Instead of a chalice, maybe we could transition to a martini glass and olives?
 

Josie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
A communicant is not required to drink the wine from the communal cup when partaking of communion in a Catholic church. Also, I have some Catholic friends that do not shake hands. One has a weak immune system (from medication) and works very hard to not catch anything. I have even quit dipping my hand into the holy water fonts when entering and leaving church. Once, towards the end of mass, a kid went tearing down the aisle towards the back and church and the restrooms. He didn't quite make it and got sick right there in the aisle. The thought hit me on the way out of mass that most likely that same child had dipped his hand into the holy water on his way in! From that time on, I just make the sign of the cross, thank you.
 

homepark

Resist
In Orthodoxy, most of us use leavened communion bread (prosfora). Small bits of the prosfora are added to the chalice, which has wine and warm water. I know that some believe that the chalice contents become the flesh and blood of Christ with no remaining earthly characteristics. I am not of that crowd. While I don't embrace consubstantiation, I chalk it up to a mystery. Jesus in the chalice is 20 proof or so, along with any accompanying germs. However, the Priest or Deacon offers this to you on a tiny spoon. I let them drop the mixture in my wide open mouth. I would be curious what RodeoRector has to say.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
In Orthodoxy, most of us use leavened communion bread (prosfora). Small bits of the prosfora are added to the chalice, which has wine and warm water. I know that some believe that the chalice contents become the flesh and blood of Christ with no remaining earthly characteristics. I am not of that crowd. While I don't embrace consubstantiation, I chalk it up to a mystery. Jesus in the chalice is 20 proof or so, along with any accompanying germs. However, the Priest or Deacon offers this to you on a tiny spoon. I let them drop the mixture in my wide open mouth. I would be curious what RodeoRector has to say.

I like that. Prosfora in the chalice. Like crumbs of birthday cake floating in the punch bowl. I've been in the punch bowl at parties. (Heh) And Communion begins a celebration of sort doesn't it?

The bolded above is VERY well said methinks.

Dobbin
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Just my/our personal thoughts and practices, not a slam at anyone who takes communion differently or has different beliefs. Sweetpeaone and I only take communion at home and use our own (real) wine and bread products. We believe in taking real wine and not grape juice, as that's what the Bible seems to dictate. We assume that in antiquity people had both grape juice and wine and knew the difference. We generally take some form of flat cracker type biscuit, though this is a simple commercial product and not a specific, religious wafer of any sort. Is all of this correct? I don't know. It's what seems appropriate for us.

I do believe that germs and viruses can be passed on through communion.

Best regards
Doc
 

Last Resort

Veteran Member
Catholic here. My priest puts the wafer in my hands, and I drink the wine from a silver chalice, as do my son and wife. So far, so good. We know who we're holding hands with during the Lord's Prayer. Not foolproof, and Lord knows I'm not entirely happy with my diocese (for academic/secular reasons), but so far so safe.
 
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