PREP CB Radios

[Beelbill]

OK, I apologize from the beginning for my continued inability to get anything from the search function. I am sure this has been discussed before, but I can't find it and it seems like a good topic to discuss now again. When TSHTF, we may not have an easy way to communicate. When the tornado hit here in Joplin, one of the first things down were the cell phones. Many people have become so dependent on them that they don't even have land lines. Some people have prepped by getting HAM radio licenses and learning how to use them. But that is a tremendous expenditure of time, money and energy.

What about using CB radios to communicate in a post SHTF world? Currently there are regulations about range, but post SHTF, the CB's range could be easily extended. They are readily available and relatively inexpensive. Anyone can use one with minimal training. I remember when we used to all drive up and down the highway saying: "Breaker 19. This is roadrunner. You got your ears on good buddy?" With cell phones, the truckers are probably the only ones using CBs now. With 40 channels, we could even pick a channel that isn't used much and designate it the TB2K channel that we could monitor.

 

[dstraito]

I wonder if a good FRS radio would be better than a CB and possibly have better range. Not offering an opinion but adding a question to your thread.

 

[bw]

Some people have prepped by getting HAM radio licenses and learning how to use them. But that is a tremendous expenditure of time, money and energy.

Actually it's simple and cheap. Used amateur radios are all over the place, and you should be able to get ready for a license exam in a week or so of evenings. There are hams in your area who would be delighted to mentor you and tell you where tests are given. Once you have your license, you're part of a reliable and robust network of people who use well-understood communication practices.

There's a good reason why after a disaster it's the hams who do the communicating, not a bunch of people on CBs saying "breaker breaker, good buddy".

Hams rule.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Ham. End of story.

 

[Captbill]

Now, now--wait just a second Mr. Olson. I have given the C.B. radio some thought. As an Extra Class Ham operator I began to wonder about the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of C.B. radios tucked around in garages and attic around this country--I believe--that should a major nationwide grid disaster occur that these radios will come out in droves..(e.g. hey! I remember dad had an old CB radio up in the attic)--So, I actually added one (a real good used one can be found cheap!) to my ham shack just yesterday just in case TSHTF badly--I do think they could play a roll--especially locally...

So, IMHO, Do don't be too quick to throw them under the bus.

 

[Dennis Olson]

I have three working CB radios, and all associated hardware. I'm not saying they don't have a role, but when someone starts talking about modifying them for greater power output, etc, etc, well, then you may as well get a Ham set.

 

[bw]

I have one CB, and a smattering of FRS stuff. For walkie-talkies, you can't beat the exrs from TriSquare on Amazon. Your choice of the 1000-channel or 100,000-channel models, clear signal, no eavesdropping, and cheap.

When it hits the fan, I have real doubts about a bunch of CBs coming out of the woodwork, but maybe. I sure have never heard of it being a significant player in all the smaller HTF scenarios that play out every year - tornadoes, hurricanes, floods. It's always hams.

 

[Double_A]

OK, I apologize from the beginning for my continued inability to get anything from the search function. I am sure this has been discussed before, but I can't find it and it seems like a good topic to discuss now again. When TSHTF, we may not have an easy way to communicate. When the tornado hit here in Joplin, one of the first things down were the cell phones. Many people have become so dependent on them that they don't even have land lines. Some people have prepped by getting HAM radio licenses and learning how to use them. But that is a tremendous expenditure of time, money and energy.

What about using CB radios to communicate in a post SHTF world? Currently there are regulations about range, but post SHTF, the CB's range could be easily extended. They are readily available and relatively inexpensive. Anyone can use one with minimal training. I remember when we used to all drive up and down the highway saying: "Breaker 19. This is roadrunner. You got your ears on good buddy?" With cell phones, the truckers are probably the only ones using CBs now. With 40 channels, we could even pick a channel that isn't used much and designate it the TB2K channel that we could monitor.

Yes the range is limited. To extend the range as you suggest costs time and money and a bit of expertise, that frankly for me says get a yourself a Ham license.

Now if you toss in the argument that Ham radio being controlled by it's members and by government and CB being wild and uncontrolled by anything and easier in that respect, that is another topic for discussion.

 

[Captbill]

I'm not saying they don't have a role, but when someone starts talking about modifying them for greater power output, etc, etc, well, then you may as well get a Ham set.

Could not agree more!

 

[RCSAR]

CB radios are everywhere.
You will be hard pressed to beat a CB and a mag mount antenna for fixed positions and will fit out of the way in storage. No manual needed to set offsets like ham radios. Just really plug N play.

I do not discount ham one bit. But for a community I feel CB is really sweet! Sweet in being simple to run and even transport. I can train a CB operator with a 40 channel radio in 5 minutes.

For any community to function with no phone service it will need Ham as well as CB operators working together.

As far as FRS I still have yet to see even the top of the line work 10 miles. Might work from a mountain top but I'm in the great plains. They are nice for talking a few blocks away. Still that has a use too for those standing watch.

Can you really have too many bands to access?

 

[Ramius]

The problem with both CB and FRS is the number of people trying to use a limited number of channels. CB is crowded now, while most people use cell phones. In an emergency, it will get so overloaded with people trying to talk over each other, it will become useless in urban areas. In a seriously rural area, they might be useful, especially for short range. FRS is good to talk to the kids with, as long as they don't leave the yard, or car-to-car driving down the road, if you stay in sight. I'd never trust FRS for long distance.

I do not yet have a ham license, but it's on my short list of things to get done, and soon. You can't have too many options when it comes to communication, and the expense related to these are all limited enough that having all three is affordable.

Add to this the social divides of the types of radio- the CB is good for road information when traveling, FRS is good for short distance convenience, and Ham for long distance and more detailed world information.

Also, don't forget a plain SW radio- some think SW is obsolete due to the internet, but if the net goes down, it might be really good to pick up those overseas broadcasts and find out what is going on in the world- and by those who aren't controlled by the local government.

 

[Thunderbird]

FRS is strictly line of sight with the provided antennas. Range can be extended with expedient measures.

 

[bw]

The problem with both CB and FRS is the number of people trying to use a limited number of channels.

Hence EXRS - 100,000 channels. It's really only about 50 channels, with 100,000 frequency-hopping algorithm settings. Each frequency is used for about a twentieth of a second IIRC, so you hear no crosstalk and you can't be eavesdropped by someone else with EXRS unless they know what channel you're on. Terrific radios.

A friend uses his on cruises. He says when he used FRS he was contending with all the other passengers, but EXRS he's all over the boat, perfect reception, no interference.

It's not like a ham rig, but as a WT it's great.

 

[Captain D]

I wonder if a good FRS radio would be better than a CB and possibly have better range.

Nope. Both are useful but not interchangeable. FRS is great for short-range handheld ops in close quarters. CB is great for local-area mobile or mobile-to-base ops.

While few people are hams, many people have CB radios lying around that could be put to use in a disaster.

 

[IronMan 2]

Ham. End of story.

Are Muslims banned from using HAM radio??

 

[Kook]

Are Muslims banned from using HAM radio??

Grind it up and make a sausage radio, and they'll never know the diff.

 

[Democopy]

Courtesy of Loup.........

_____

As far as Ham Radio, it is just prudent prepping to include that is your major communications option. Sure, you need a license, and rather expensive equipment, but you have a LOT bigger guarantee of getting the message through. While you can go down to your local walmart, and for less than $100, pick up a blister pack of two FRS/GMRS radios, the best you are going to do with them in almost every situation is only a few miles.

And the BIGGEST part of Ham Radio, is that you own at least half of the whole communications system, not some third rate company that is only seeking profits. With Ham Radio, there is no "network" that is owned by a third party. The only way communications may have problems is if one of the two ends has problems, or if propagation is dead for the chosen band.

I don't think that he is making a profit on the Ham Radio part, I think he realizes that every one of the "public" communications systems revolves around a "Master of Ceremonies" or network that someone else owns and controls. And if the going gets tough, the network WILL fail. You need comms with no network.

Loup

 

[Ramius]

Hence EXRS - 100,000 channels. It's really only about 50 channels, with 100,000 frequency-hopping algorithm settings. Each frequency is used for about a twentieth of a second IIRC, so you hear no crosstalk and you can't be eavesdropped by someone else with EXRS unless they know what channel you're on. Terrific radios.

A friend uses his on cruises. He says when he used FRS he was contending with all the other passengers, but EXRS he's all over the boat, perfect reception, no interference.

It's not like a ham rig, but as a WT it's great.

Sounds good- could you give me a link or place with more information? Thanks in advance.
R.

 

[razerback]

iam a ham win you key up to talk you give up your local but win tshtf you need to listen to all radios food for thought

 

[peekaboo]

I have a question. Do any of the other mentioned radios pick up ham signals? Even if I don't have a ham set up could I just listen to others broadcasting?

 

[Captain D]

Even if I don't have a ham set up could I just listen to others broadcasting?

Now you are thinking. The main value of ham radio would be in the reception of it, not so much in being able to transmit. To hear long-range transmissions you need a decent HF receiver capable of single-siodeband reception, something like a Sangean or a Grundig selling for $225-250. Local ham transmissions, such as on two or six meters, can be monitored with a scanner, which will also give you access to other radio transmissions, such as police/emergency, FRS, etc.

 

[Beelbill]

Now you are thinking. The main value of ham radio would be in the reception of it, not so much in being able to transmit. To hear long-range transmissions you need a decent HF receiver capable of single-siodeband reception, something like a Sangean or a Grundig selling for $225-250. Local ham transmissions, such as on two or six meters, can be monitored with a scanner, which will also give you access to other radio transmissions, such as police/emergency, FRS, etc.

Listening to HAM radio sounded good so I looked and found the Grundig G3 with SSB. This is what the review said about it:

Unlike other portables in it class, the Globe Traveler offers Synchronous Detection. This special feature addresses the issue of selective fading and co-channel interference on shortwave.With the proper U/Lsb injection frequencies and Dual bandwidth selectivity and Fine Tuning Control SSB tuning is almost as easy as a Ham Transceiver.

When I read that, my brain translates it as "Blah Blah Blah, Blah Blah Blah Blah, Blah Blah Blah Ham Blah." It sounds like I would need a college course just to listen to HAM transmissions.

 

[bw]

Sounds good- could you give me a link or place with more information? Thanks in advance.
R.

amazon. look for exrs. cheap, easy.

 

[LoupGarou]

Listening to HAM radio sounded good so I looked and found the Grundig G3 with SSB. This is what the review said about it:

When I read that, my brain translates it as "Blah Blah Blah, Blah Blah Blah Blah, Blah Blah Blah Ham Blah." It sounds like I would need a college course just to listen to HAM transmissions.

The "SSB" means that the receiver can receive and work with Single Side Band Signals. Most shortwave and the AM broadcast band signals use full AM (Amplitude Modulation) Modulation. This type of signal modulation uses a carrier signal and two side lobes (side bands) on either side of the carrier. The actual "information" is sent in the side bands while the carrier is used for the receiver to lock on to and carries no usable signal. This method means that a receiver can be as simple as a diode and a coil of wire, BUT a LOT of power is wasted in that carrier, and in the other (mirror image) sideband. Amateur radio operators, Military, and certain other groups use SSB, where the carrier, and one of the sidebands are removed before amplifying the signal at the transmitter. This means that you have to have a special receiver, but you can transmit the same distance using MUCH less power, since you are not wasting it transmitting the other side band, or worse, the carrier.

More info on Modulation types and other radio systems:
http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?381148-Updated-Communications-Thread
http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?227938-Communications-Basics-101
http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?311985-HAM-radio-101


More info on radio systems and other things:
http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?404006-Ham-radio-(and-other-comms)-links

Antennas are EVERYTHING for a signal to get out and in to a radio. While I would chose Amateur radio over anything else out there, CB and FRS/GMRS radios WILL work as they are designed IF they have the right conditions, the operator knows the system's limitations, and they have good antennas. A good radio will work like crap with a bad antenna, and a fair radio will work good with a good antenna.

Let me say that again: WATTAGE is not the answer, having a good antenna and knowing about the way the radios work IS the answer. Going from 5 watts, to 100 watts at BEST will get you just two more units on the S meter. Taking the rubber duck antenna off of your radio, and using a GOOD antenna that is also up higher will bring your signal up MUCH better, and let you receive a LOT more as well. No matter what radio you are using, get the best antenna that you can. Even a cheap CB with a very good antenna up high (at least 20 feet) WILL get 10-40 miles with no trouble in most areas. Same is true with a GMRS radio, the better the antenna, and the higher up it is, the better your distance and signal will be. Sure, a standard AM CB is 4 watts transmit, and a SSB capable CB is 12 watts, but with the right antennas, 100 miles is very possible, and still legal. I can take my handheld Amateur radio that only has 4 watts to work with, and talk to the ISS, as well as satellites that are 200+ miles up, and hundreds of miles away. Power is not the issue, antennas are. And you can make a GOOD CB antenna for under $20.

Loup

 

[Captain D]

Sideband may sound like techno-babble if you are unfamiliar with it, but it really isn't that daunting. It's a much more efficient way to use the available spectrum, since the bandwidth of your signal is much narrower than a traditional AM signal. It takes a little practice to properly tune a sideband signal. To start, it may sound like Donald Duck talking through a handkerchief, but once you get the hang of it, you will be able to adjust the radio so that it sounds like a real person speaking quite clearly. Practice is the key.

Whether or not to get a ham license depends on your personal resources, interests, and your concept of how to operate in a SHTF scenario. But I recommend that everyone have the ability to receive various radio-service transmissions. . .as many as you can think of.

 

[Double_A]

Listening to HAM radio sounded good so I looked and found the Grundig G3 with SSB. This is what the review said about it:

When I read that, my brain translates it as "Blah Blah Blah, Blah Blah Blah Blah, Blah Blah Blah Ham Blah." It sounds like I would need a college course just to listen to HAM transmissions.

You just need a "Ham Lingo" decoder ring and things will come into focus, don't give up so easily

 

[Double_A]

Sideband may sound like techno-babble if you are unfamiliar with it, but it really isn't that daunting. It's a much more efficient way to use the available spectrum, since the bandwidth of your signal is much narrower than a traditional AM signal. It takes a little practice to properly tune a sideband signal. To start, it may sound like Donald Duck talking through a handkerchief, but once you get the hang of it, you will be able to adjust the radio so that it sounds like a real person speaking quite clearly. Practice is the key.

Whether or not to get a ham license depends on your personal resources, interests, and your concept of how to operate in a SHTF scenario. But I recommend that everyone have the ability to receive various radio-service transmissions. . .as many as you can think of.

I see you've taken the time to learn about it. If I remember correctly some months back you didn't know much about Ham radio, but seemed sure you had no use for it. I find your opinions you've posted here much more valuable now that they are informed opinions. Good.

 

[Overnight]

Our Ham club has a net every week. We have a net control
Operator who takes check ins and gives and takes information.
I think Hams are better organized in an emergency
then people with CB's. But if you wanted to use your CB
in a SHTF situation I think it should be tuned and have
a AMP/PRE AMP connected to it and using a dipole antenna would be
some what stealthy. And yes I know AMPS are illegal on CB RADIOS.
but if everything is hitting the fan who is going to care.
don't forget field day is next month so find one near you
and talk to some of the people there. Work a radio and have fun.

 

[Captain D]

I see you've taken the time to learn about it. If I remember correctly some months back you didn't know much about Ham radio, but seemed sure you had no use for it. I find your opinions you've posted here much more valuable now that they are informed opinions. Good.

Dude, most of my career was working on communications in a trans- and post-nuclear environment. Procurement of the equipment, program management for new strategic networks, that kind of thing. We made sure the Single Integrated Operations Plan could be executed while you slept safely at home at night. The job required a working knowledge of electronic principles and practical applications. I worked on projects that ranged over the entire RF spectrum, from a few kilohertz all the way up to light frequencies.

I've been familiar with ham radio since I was a kid. My opinion about it has never changed. Ham radio is just fine, but it is no better than any of the other radio services available. You match the service to your requirements. If ham meets your requirements, then you should be a ham. For some people all they'll ever need is a pair of FRS talkies. Some hams don't seem to understand that. They propose complicated solutions to simple problems. Always remember, relatively few people are hams. If the people you want to talk to are not hams, the solution is not to tell them to get a ham ticket.

 

[Double_A]

Dude, most of my career was working on communications in a trans- and post-nuclear environment. Procurement of the equipment, program management for new strategic networks, that kind of thing. We made sure the Single Integrated Operations Plan could be executed while you slept safely at home at night. The job required a working knowledge of electronic principles and practical applications. I worked on projects that ranged over the entire RF spectrum, from a few kilohertz all the way up to light frequencies.

I've been familiar with ham radio since I was a kid. My opinion about it has never changed. Ham radio is just fine, but it is no better than any of the other radio services available. You match the service to your requirements. If ham meets your requirements, then you should be a ham. For some people all they'll ever need is a pair of FRS talkies. Some hams don't seem to understand that. They propose complicated solutions to simple problems. Always remember, relatively few people are hams. If the people you want to talk to are not hams, the solution is not to tell them to get a ham ticket.

My apologies. I could have sworn I read a post of yours saying in essence I don't know anything about Ham Radio, but it's of no use. I guess I was mistaken. Had you posted then what you did right now I woud never have mistaken your position.

So let me ask this of you, what do you think of recent posts here concerning the government's program to explore further integration of Ham radio into emergency response and FEMA's comments regarding Ham Radio seeming to work while their comm systems have have been less than what they had hoped?

 

[RCSAR]

In my area every farm has a CB in the trucks and at home and even in the cabs of tractors pulling plows.
I guess much depends on if you are deep in the city or out in the country. We have active ham community also but you will find many more CBs than ham radios available when push comes to shove. Many of the farmers are hams but when working on the farm use CB a lot.

Cheaper to replace a CB than a ham radio in the long run. Plus it is a fast learn for the temp farm hands.
By the time you put a radio in the barn, house,a few tractors and pickups CB is just best cost wise. Even though the master of the house has his extra class ticket it does come down to cost.

 

[Captain D]

what do you think of recent posts here concerning the government's program to explore further integration of Ham radio into emergency response and FEMA's comments regarding Ham Radio seeming to work while their comm systems have have been less than what they had hoped?

I am surprised that federal people are willing to farm any tasks out to locals, and I wouldn't trust them. Having said that, though, if the hams have the spare time during a disaster to help with FEMA's comm, then that's fine. Personally, I see myself being too busy during an emergency to get involved.

If FEMA's organic comm resources aren't working for them, I can only speculate that they didn't procure the right equipment or they are not practicing enough. We all know that nets that are always in operation, or regularly brought up and exercised, are the ones that will work the best. Thus, the hams would probably shine in that regard. I have mentioned before that one time when I visited our sheriff's department emergency command post, they told me they had considered what ham radio had to offer and preferred to develop their own resources rather than rely on it. I was a little surprised at the time, but since then I have heard their emergency networks in operation on weekends, and I know that what they have works. Sometimes they are up in the mountains in the snow and mud on a Saturday night practicing emergency procedures, so it's not just some thing where they simulate doing things and hope it all falls together when they need it.


Getting back to the original post that started this thread, I honestly believe that CB could be an asset during an emergency. Some people still have them in their Jeeps or 4x4s. They don't use them much these days, but they are there if they ever needed them. I also believe that other people have spare CBs and antennas handy that they could get working again. I pick up CBs at thrift shops for $5-10 regularly. When I get one, I take it home, bench-check it, tag it, and then put it on the shelf with the rest of the radios I have in reserve. Sometimes I even score brand-new antenna sets still in their blister packs at thrifts or rummage sales. I got bunches of this stuff lying around that I could install in friends' vehicles in an emergency.

CBs are at their best when you want to have mobile-to-mobile or mobile-to-base communications within a town and for a few miles out of town. They are cheap, easy to install and easy to use. For many years after the song Convoy came out, the airwaves were awash with yahoos that gave CB a bad reputation. Well the yahoos have long gone for the most part. When I visit those 40 channels these days I rarely hear any traffic at all on them. Many years ago, I saw CB used quite effectively during a natural disaster, and I am confident it could be used that way again. RCSAR has cited one example of how CB is viable even today. I'm sure there are many other instances where it is still used.

 

[Double_A]

In my area every farm has a CB in the trucks and at home and even in the cabs of tractors pulling plows.
I guess much depends on if you are deep in the city or out in the country. We have active ham community also but you will find many more CBs than ham radios available when push comes to shove. Many of the farmers are hams but when working on the farm use CB a lot.

Cheaper to replace a CB than a ham radio in the long run. Plus it is a fast learn for the temp farm hands.
By the time you put a radio in the barn, house,a few tractors and pickups CB is just best cost wise. Even though the master of the house has his extra class ticket it does come down to cost.

Yep, my extended family still on the farm uses CB, they have to drive 30 miles before they can get cellular service. CB is quite capable for what it does and being channelized operation is makes for simplified operation as opposed to Ham radio. [This I view as both an advantage and a disadvantage. Most "professional radio" is channelized (my professional experience is with Motorola, Icom, Standard, Standard-Vertex products from handheld to mobile units to dispatch operator consoles both conventional & trunked) whereas Ham radio is all over Modes, Bands, Modulations, combinations are seemingly infinite.] A decent antenna on the roof of the Farmhouse and one on the metal cab of a tractor will get you usable range, especially if your out on flat-as-a-pancake land where a 200ft hill is locally known as Chocolate Mtn.

 

[KenGin31]

DW was on me this morning about getting a ham radio. I've got cb and frs.

 

[bw]

Getting back to the original post that started this thread, I honestly believe that CB could be an asset during an emergency. Some people still have them in their Jeeps or 4x4s. They don't use them much these days, but they are there if they ever needed them. I also believe that other people have spare CBs and antennas handy that they could get working again. I pick up CBs at thrift shops for $5-10 regularly. When I get one, I take it home, bench-check it, tag it, and then put it on the shelf with the rest of the radios I have in reserve. Sometimes I even score brand-new antenna sets still in their blister packs at thrifts or rummage sales.

I'm a ham and have a CB and possible more than one, but you've given me something to chew on here. I hit thrifts all the time - think I'll add this to my list.

 

[Garryowen]

If FEMA's organic comm resources aren't working for them, I can only speculate that they didn't procure the right equipment or they are not practicing enough.

I guess I'd wonder if it wasn't that they really want to control the hams. We can't have bad publicity getting out now, can we?

 

[Captain D]

I guess I'd wonder if it wasn't that they really want to control the hams. We can't have bad publicity getting out now, can we?

Yeah, maybe that, too. Like I said, I wouldn't trust anybody who says they're from the government and they're here to help. I'd be very cautious if I were a ham whose services were enlisted by FEMA.

 

[Zulu Cowboy]

My disaster communications include the use of CB radio, FRS/GMRS, and Amateur radio. But to tell you the truth...it's the ham radio that will be the most useful after normal communications are disrupted. That's just the way it is. I can communicate with local disaster preparedness officials with my ham radio. They will NOT be transmitting on CB or FRS, you can take that to the bank. I'll use my 4 FRS/GMRS radios to communicate with my neighbors, if we decide to provide security for our little neck of the woods. I might use my CB to communicate with some of the locals, but the ham radio is my main source of information. I can pick up signals and communicate all over the world with that. There's really no comparison in the capabilities.

Zulu Cowboy

 

[Old Reliable]

Ham Radio.

End of story.

 

[Captain D]

it's the ham radio that will be the most useful after normal communications are disrupted. That's just the way it is. I can communicate with local disaster preparedness officials with my ham radio. They will NOT be transmitting on CB or FRS, you can take that to the bank.

the ham radio is my main source of information. I can pick up signals and communicate all over the world with that. There's really no comparison in the capabilities.

Zulu Cowboy: I am surprised that your county DP would not have its own, discrete frequencies, typically in the 154-5 MHz range, frequencies you would not be authorized to use personally, rather than relying on ham frequencies to communicate.

Are you also saying that your amateur gear would be of more value to you than a scanner to monitor local emergency traffic, such as police and other responders?

You see, that is where I always reach a point of consternation when hams say their hobby-radio activities will be more important in a SHTF scenario than any other radio service. While 6-meter ham traffic, for example, would be useful to monitor in order to assess what is going on in my local area during an emergency, I would never regard it as having higher value than the informatoin I will gather by simply monitoring police, sheriff's dept, and other first-responders, and they will not be using ham radios to communicate. Ham radio will be one of the tools I would use to keep informed, but I fail to see how it is head-and-shoulders above all the other radio services in terms of its value.