Builders: How can one secure a roof for 225 mph winds?

stillprepping

Membership Revoked
ok, here's the scenario - just dont ask why the interest in preparing for this type of wind (well, if your really curious, pm me):

one has a 'standard' w-type truss roof system with metal exterior roofing screwed into the trusses. all trusses are secured to their top plates with standard hurricane clips nailed into both the top plate and the truss. the wood top plates are *firmly secured* into a reinforced, poured, conrete wall (part of a blue-maxx home).

what else can one do - if anything - to *try* to secure the roof for F5+ winds? IS THERE anything one can do?

[please note: these winds would NOT be lo-pressure tornados]
 

hitssquad

Inactive
Economic secure-homes vs costly retrofits

stillprepping said:
what else can one do - if anything - to *try* to secure the roof for F5+ winds? IS THERE anything one can do?
Why Build A Concrete Dome?
http://www.monolithic.com/thedome/wilson/index.html

Building Survivability: The Strength of the Monolithic Dome
http://www.monolithic.com/plan_design/survive

Surviving Hurricanes and Tornadoes
http://www.monolithic.com/plan_design/FEMA/index.html

Building Better Provides Tornado Protection
http://www.monolithic.com/thedome/safe_home/index.html

Was it a Disaster?
http://www.monolithic.com/pres/disaster

I Survived a Disaster
http://www.monolithic.com/edcircle/disaster

Monolithic Dome Home Survives May 4th Missouri Tornado
http://www.monolithic.com/gallery/homes/morgan

Building Better Provides Tornado Protection
http://www.monolithic.com/thedome/safe_home

Being Safe
http://www.monolithic.com/pres/safe

Tornadoes
http://www.monolithic.com/pres/2002_tornado

Beach Front Homes
Building for Wind, Water and Corrosion
http://www.monolithic.com/gallery/homes/beach

Let's Not Succumb to Hazard Amnesia
http://www.monolithic.com/thedome/hazard

Preparedness Takes Preparation
http://www.monolithic.com/pres/preparedness

Antiterrorism Buildings
http://www.monolithic.com/pres/antiterrorism

Wind, Water and Monolithic Domes
monolithic.com/disaster_resistance/hurricanes/index.html

A Monolithic Dome Indestructible Fire Station
monolithic.com/gallery/commercial/firestation/index.html
 

'plain o joe'

Membership Revoked
As I said, one can't secure a standard wood or metal roof to 225. The only design I've heard of is an octagonic or hexagonic sided building with a Kingpin at the top on the inside.
 

Garryowen

Deceased
It seems to me that if you are building for those kinds of winds that you should go with prestressed concrete and build an earth bermed home. Depending on your location, that may be impractical for you.

I'm not betting on any steel roofing staying put at 225 mph winds. Now, you might go to something heavier, say 24 ga. steel, but I wouldn't use wooden trusses to hold it at all. Trusses are built to support the load on the top chord. They are not built to resist "lift." If you succeeded in holding the steel to the trusses, I think the trusses would rip apart.

If you need to have a structure able to withstand that kind of force, I suggest finding an engineer who has built such buildings in the past. Most of us are just guessing about what it would take to survive that stuff. I have seen what winds in the midwest can do, and they are far less than 225. (Unless you are in the funnel cloud.)

good luck, If you get some specific information, it would be interesting to hear what you discover.

Garryowen
 

hitssquad

Inactive
ZZ Consulting

Garryowen said:
If you need to have a structure able to withstand that kind of force, I suggest finding an engineer who has built such buildings in the past.

http://www.zzconsulting.com

ZZ Consulting is a small engineering firm providing structural engineering design and service for quality projects including educational, office, industrial, government, medical, institutional and residential buildings. Many current projects include the specialty design of thin-shell concrete dome structures.
 

north runner

Membership Revoked
stillprepping said:
ok, here's the scenario - just dont ask why the interest in preparing for this type of wind (well, if your really curious, pm me):

one has a 'standard' w-type truss roof system with metal exterior roofing screwed into the trusses. all trusses are secured to their top plates with standard hurricane clips nailed into both the top plate and the truss. the wood top plates are *firmly secured* into a reinforced, poured, conrete wall (part of a blue-maxx home).

what else can one do - if anything - to *try* to secure the roof for F5+ winds? IS THERE anything one can do?

[please note: these winds would NOT be lo-pressure tornados]


Well.... I'd cable it with 1/4-3/8 inch coated steel wire. You've seen the way they cable old barns against the wind. Isn't F5 like 300 mph winds.
 

energy_wave

Has No Life - Lives on TB
They make Kevlar straps which run outside from the plate, up the wall, over the roof and down the other side. There is also a system which bolts to the foundation and runs a rod to the top plate to tie into the rafter or truss. Try simsion strong tie for starters and google kevlar roof straps.
 

bookworm1711

Inactive
I was studying this very issue not long ago. Roofs can be strengthened against wind by a factor of three by applying quality construction adhesive along all of the the rafters in the form of a 3/8 inch corner bead of adhesive along the entire length where it meets the roof on both sides of the rafter.

Using "back of the envelope" mathematics, I wonder if that means that if my current roof can withstand 90mph winds (it can and did), with this technique, my roof could then withstand 270mph winds?

There is a website devoted to helping engineers and building contractors learn how to economically strengthen roofs against hurricane force winds.

I bookmarked the website as www.ibhs.org at the time. The site is still there, but I did not search just now for the precise page where this construction technique is discussed, nor did I look to see if, in fact, the page is still there.
 

Hokey

Veteran Member
Unless they're monolithic (concrete or whatever), a roof system is only as strong as its weakest link. Strengthening where every part joins to another is a thought (the glue thing sounds quite feasible), but roof lift is still a problem, regardless. If you didn't have any eaves perhaps...or perhaps have retractable or removeable eaves?
 

hitssquad

Inactive
Wind force = wind-speed squared

bookworm1711 said:
Roofs can be strengthened against wind by a factor of three by [...]

Using "back of the envelope" mathematics, I wonder if that means that if my current roof can withstand 90mph winds (it can and did), with this technique, my roof could then withstand 270mph winds?
No. 270mph winds have 9x the force of 90mph winds. Wind force = wind-speed squared. If your roof can handle 3x the force of 90mph winds, then it can handle the force of 156mph winds (90 x the square-root of 3).

http://www.monolithic.com/plan_design/survive

=-=
A wind of 70 miles per hour blowing against a 30 foot tall flat walled building in open flat terrain will exert a pressure of 22 pounds per square foot (see sidebars). If the wind speed is increased to 300 miles per hour the pressure is increased to 404 pounds per square foot (psf). Wind speed of 300 MPH is considered maximum for a tornado. It is far greater than that of a hurricane.
=-=
 

dissimulo

Membership Revoked
stillprepping said:
IS THERE anything one can do?

Bury it, or create an earth berm around the house, a bit higher than the roof line.

Build a long, sloping ramp up to each side of the house to channel the wind over - kind of a big, flat pyramid?

Your structure probably can't be affordably retro-fitted to fight that wind, but maybe you can find a way to block or channel the wind.
 
They're right, SP. When you start talking 225 MPH winds you need to re-engineer the building that holds the roof, or you may as well speculate about how well the roof will hold up in flight, or touchdown. :lol:

Now the first thing that came to my mind when I read your thread title was airframe structure. If I was really going to set about to construct such a thing, and could not go monolithic, I would begin by framing a contoured (aerodynamic) structure with metal designed to hold a fastening system for the skin.

IMHO, you need to begin from scratch for such a structure. As Bookworm states, a good glue is a welcome structural addition to any sheathed structure, (floor, wall, or roof), but a beefed up conventional home is not the answer. What you describe may have the walls to withstand it, I don't know, but you would have to eliminate any overhangs or protusions and contour the thing even then, if you plan to keep a frame roof on. If the walls and windows/shutters will handle that kind of wind shear, then frame your roof with steel, weld it all together, and you might have an even shot.

Tras
 

1911user

Veteran Member
Read this article several times to understand all of the concepts:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/fallick49.html

To summarize my suggestions:
use plywood gussets (glued and nailed) on both sides of each truss
use good wood glue where 3/4 inch plywood sheathing will touch each truss
use plenty of screws (not nails, not drywall screws) to attach the 3/4 inch plywood sheathing to the trusses (don't forget the glue before installing the screws)
use as many huricane clips as reasonably possible to attach each truss to the top plate.
use large/long nails for the hurricane clips
use as many anchors as possible to attach the top plate to the wall
ensure the wall is very, very well connected with the floor/slab
don't have the roof edge overhang the walls
use a heavy-duty metal door with several hinges attached using long lag srews/bolts

I've built a shed/tornado shelter using the techniques in the article and it works very well. Attach the metal roofing to the plywood sheathing if you require it, otherwise use shingles and plan to replace them after a strong wind.
 

hitssquad

Inactive
GSA Class-5/Class-8 doors

1911user said:
use a heavy-duty metal door with several hinges attached using long lag srews/bolts
I like these for outer doors:
diebold.com/nasagsa/GSAPhysicalSecurityProducts_VaultDoor.htm

vault_1.jpg



They help protect the curious from the ingress/egress tunnels.
 

grommit

Senior Member
If the wind is pushing on the wall with 400 pounds of force per square inch, does that mean that the air is actually pressurised to 400 pounds per square inch, or around 25 atmospheres? Not sure how much of the force is pressure and how much is friction, but friction would be lateral, not perpendicular.

If so, than any opening would allow that pressure to pressurize the building and blow off the roof and blow out the walls. This is the action that tornados usually have on structures that fail catastrophically.

and all window glass would have to be rated for at least 400psi too, resisting that amount of force both inward and outward, unless the shutters both deploy real fast and are air tight so they do not allow the space outside the window to pressurize.

Realistically, any doors that might be used in high winds should open to "airlocks" or foyers with weather/wind resistant doors inside and out so that the building does not get pressurized.

I third and fourth the monolithic dome suggestion if underground is not possible.
 
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north runner

Membership Revoked
This is cold Ny, most of the time except for this heatwave. Why can't SP bury the roof under several tons of snow and spray water on the surface to freeze it hard as concrete. Just guessing these winds are nuclear in origin and push-pull on the structure.

If you can't wait.....for an architect to redesign your roof SP.
 

Garryowen

Deceased
Holding the steel roof to the plywood deck is still going to be a problem. I wouldn't trust screws to hold in plywood, but you could drill the roofing and use machine screws (stainless, of course) and nuts and washers on the underside. Sealing them may present a challenge, but I'd bet that somewhere there is an appropriate product available.

The glue on the sheathing will help a great deal. If money is not a problem, I would suggest skinning the trusses with plywood, glued and nailed to the trusses, then double the top chord, so you can have an extra bead of glue and nails. I prefer ccs to screws, because once a screw has moved about .08 it has lost a lot of its holding strength. As long as it doesn't move, it will be fine, but in high wind there is a lot of buffeting.

As far as holding the whole thing together goes, sheathing the entire structure in plywood, glued and nailed to the framing members is probably the most cost effective way of adding strength. I have seen one house that had 1" black pipe that ran all the way from the second story top plate through the walls to the basement footings at every corner of the perimeter wall.

If you are building a wood framed house, you can also choose to use #1 Southern Yellow Pine. Or Douglas Fir, if you prefer. Both are a bit harder to work with than white woods, but have superior strength, and are heavier. You will notice the difference when you handle the lumber.

Sounds to me like a pretty nice house. Oh, and framing the outside walls with 2x6s will add some strength. You could also fill the walls with road rock for thermal mass and insulation against flying objects. (Will necessitate all wiring being in heavy conduit.)

We have easily doubled the cost of your house on this thread. Pretty good, eh?;)
 

stillprepping

Membership Revoked
north,
"Well.... I'd cable it "

a great idea, and exactly what i'm thinking of. i just dont know if it would need to go over the entire roof, or just secure the trusses.

our roof is already constructed, so no 'gluing' is possible, i dont think. we also have 'eaves' which would seem like a great sail or trap for high winds - not good.


tras,
"IMHO, you need to begin from scratch for such a structure"

unfortunately, thats what i'm thinking too. i'm aware of the monolithic domes, and also the conrete pre-fab ones from american ingenuity (www.aidomes.com). they're both awesome and would have the best chance of anything of surviving these winds.


grommit,
"any opening would allow that pressure to pressurize the building and blow off the roof and blow out the walls."

true - any breach in the 'shell' of the structure and its pretty much all over. i've looked at hurrican shutters for protecting the windows, but the highest certified wind loads are 140mph. these shutters have withstood higher winds, but thats their rating.
 

hitssquad

Inactive
Monolithic vs geodesic domes

stillprepping said:
i'm aware of the monolithic domes, and also the conrete pre-fab ones from american ingenuity (www.aidomes.com). they're both awesome and would have the best chance of anything of surviving these winds.
Those two types of structures have virtually nothing in common. The offering from American Ingenuity is a geodesic structure. Geodesic structures are inherently weak, inherently high-maintenance, inherently water- and air- leaky, inherently expensive to heat and cool, and inherently expensive overall to own.

The AI website says:

=-=
Once the seams are filled with concrete, the dome acts like a "monolithic dome home."
=-=


The filled seams will be weak and leaky precisely because they are not monolithic. Monolithic means no cold joints exist. Cold joints are created whenever fresh concrete is applied next to concrete that has already set. The AI structures have nothing but cold joints all around them. This one reason why they explode when subjected to tornado winds. AI offers a warranty that covers wind damage:

  • American Ingenuity warrants to the original Buyer that their products and components will remain free from structural damage directly attributable to hurricanes, earthquakes, and tornadoes regardless of force, when completely assembled and installed in accordance with: American Ingenuity’s specifications, Professional building practice, Applicable building codes.

  • In the event such structural damage occurs: The Buyer shall notify American Ingenuity promptly of such damage. After receipt of notification, American Ingenuity shall repair or, at American Ingenuity’s option, provide the necessary replacement components at no charge to the Buyer. The buyer shall be responsible for freight charges and/or reasonable travel and living expense of American Ingenuity personnel for travel to the site, if necessary.

That's right. After your AI home explodes, AI will repair it -- for free. You won't have to pay anything.

On the other hand, Monolithic offers no warranty.
 
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hitssquad

Inactive
Overpressure-resistant building glazings

hitssquad said:
If the wind speed is increased to 300 miles per hour the pressure is increased to 404 pounds per square foot (psf).
grommit said:
If the wind is pushing on the wall with 400 pounds of force per square inch.
No. Per square foot (psf). There are 144 (12x12) square inches in a square foot, so 404 psf = 2.8 psi.


does that mean that the air is actually pressurised to 400 pounds per square
...Foot. I think it means that the air becomes momentarily pressurized to 404 psf (2.8 psi) when and where it encounters unmoving perpendicular resistance.


If so, than any opening would allow that pressure to pressurize the building and blow off the roof and blow out the walls.
I think that the pressure inside the walls would be the surface area of any perpendicular opening divided by the surface area of the walls. Therefore, a small opening is not going to blow out the walls. And a wall facing the wind would have the full 2.8 psi pushing on it from the outside -- so that wall could not be blown out by a wind hitting it, no matter how strong. If anything, it would be blown in. If a wall blew out, it would have to be on the side or the back, relative to the wind direction.


and all window glass would have to be rated for at least 400psi too
Some laminated glazings might be able to handle 2.8 psi. Pinnacle Armor claims to offer blast-resistant glazings that can handle 4.0 psi:
google.com/search?q=blast+resistant+windows+psi

My own secure-home designs never feature glazing, so I have to admit that I am ignorant in that area.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/securehomes
 

hitssquad

Inactive
Vault doors and blast doors - is there a door that can do both

CFI:

Nice, but I am having trouble finding doors that are both blast and attack resistant. The attack-resistant doors don't seem to offer anything more than 20psi specs. I suppose multiple doors might have to be the solution. Or perhaps some of the UL Class-3 bank-vault doors would qualify at high psi levels, but their manufacturers never bother selling them on those specs.

Here is a UL Class-3 vault door:

Pic_Vault_Door_Large.jpg



I wonder what level of static overpressure it would be able to resist.
 

stillprepping

Membership Revoked
hits,

the door you show looks like it'd probably withstand a nuclear bomb. i'd just be afraid i might not be able to get out of it. what if you forget the combination? :confused:


cfi,
"these were designed to withstand 200 psi overpressure..."

what IS that thing???
 

hitssquad

Inactive
Losing the combination to your front door

stillprepping said:
hits, the door you show looks like it'd probably withstand a nuclear bomb.
Unfortunately, it would not, as far as I can tell based on the insistances of other manufacturers that their very highest ratings of their vault doors only go up to 20psi. Also, if you look at a lot of pictures of heavy doors -- as I have -- it is easy to see the design differences between the blast doors and the vault doors.


stillprepping said:
i'd just be afraid i might not be able to get out of it.
Based on my internet research, it seems to me that all vault doors made today are easily opened from the inside without needing to know the combination.


stillprepping said:
what if you forget the combination?
Then enter from one of your other doors and change the combination from the inside. (It is dangerous for a number of other reasons as well to only have one door on your home. All of my secure-home designs feature at least two separately-located egress doors.) All vault doors allow easy access from their backsides to their mechanicals. Also, the company you purchased the door from may be able to crack it without damaging it. A top safe-cracking company might be able to do the same.

On the other hand:
pitt.edu/utimes/issues/34/020502/09.html

To outwit nitro-equipped outlaws, manufacturers created "cannonballs": round, tightly sealed, double-locked safes made of manganese steel. "These were probably the strongest safes ever made," says Watters, who has amassed a large collection of safes and locks from around the world. "The problem was, they didn't hold much and they took up a lot of room. As banks needed more storage space, they started building these big vault rooms. It was common for banks to keep a cannonball safe inside the vault, to store the large-denomination money."

According to Watters, a 17-ton cannonball safe has sat, locked, in the County Controller's office for the last 30 years, ever since staff misplaced the combination. Watters says he offered eight years ago to drill it open, but office administrators balked at his price.

But I would think that a high-level vault door would more-likely be simply uncrackable without damaging it, in which case it would have to be attacked with technology or for a length of time that the typical attacking force would be unlikely to employ. There is no such thing as a door that cannot be defeated, given enough resources and time. What makes a vault door an intruder-safe door is the fact that opening it would likely take more than two hours. In the meantime, the homeowner would be free to employ any number of different encouragements for the would-be uninvited guest to leave the vicinity.

If I found myself completely unable to open my door or to change the combination, I think I would simply take it as a loss and try defeating it with an abrasive waterjet. As far as I am aware, there is no substance on Earth that an abrasive waterjet cannot cut through.

40-286%20Web.jpg


10"-thick concrete block cut with waterjet:

block.jpg


3"-thick steel cut with waterjet:

OMAX_Waterjet_3InchThickPartsB_small.jpg



And if the waterjet does not work, you could try a plasma torch, etc.


stillprepping said:
cfi,
"these were designed to withstand 200 psi overpressure..."

what IS that thing?
It is probably a door in a missile silo.
siloworld.com/579thSMS/OPERATIONAL/SITE%201/accident__pg_2.htm

579-1-5_acAccident.jpg
 
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hitssquad

Inactive
Waterjet range

I do not know the ranges of the waterlances (and they should vary depending upon the given application). I would think that spraying with abrasives vs with clear water should provide substantially more range since the abrasives (very fine sand transported in water) are denser than water. (Abrasives are used for cutting hard things; clear water is used for cutting things like angel-food cake, meats, diapers and automotive carpets.)

food_cutting-cake.jpg
cut_celery2.jpg


tomato.jpg
tomato2.jpg



All of the pictures and videos I have seen show waterjets being used at extremely close ranges. Some of the literature says that precision cuts can be made a foot or more in depth, which should give you some idea of the range. It looks to me like the spray spreads in a cone, so both the fineness of the cuts and the effective psi are going to drop dramatically with distance.

By the way, the waterlance, like all waterjets, requires a several-hundred-horsepower water-pump and related equipment. I suppose if you had a storage tank that could handle the pressure, you would not need the pump on all of the time and therefore the lance could be kept on standby for some limited amount of time. But that last bit is just a guess on my part.
 
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Christian for Israel

Knight of Jerusalem
stillprepping said:
hits,

the door you show looks like it'd probably withstand a nuclear bomb. i'd just be afraid i might not be able to get out of it. what if you forget the combination? :confused:


cfi,
"these were designed to withstand 200 psi overpressure..."

what IS that thing???
it's a blast door from an atlas-F missile silo. :D as for other doors...how about a 5 foot thick concrete and steel silo door? ;)

how's this for a house?
t_Atlas_F_LCC.jpg


here's a map of all the silo locations:

Atlas_F_Bases.gif


here's the site link:
http://www.geocities.com/atlas_missile/f_bases.htm
 

hitssquad

Inactive
Missile silos as secure homes - are they practical

Abandoned silos -- or homes built to silo specs -- are not very practical. Building an airformed shotcrete home into a hill allows horizontal access, yet can still provide 100+ psi blast protection -- given strong doors. How would you like to have to walk down six flights of stairs or take an elevator every time you wanted to get into your home? And where would you park your car? If you build into a hillside instead, you can build your garage into the hillside as well and achieve protection for your vehicles.

The use of materials in a typical silo design is high. A monolithic dome allows for a minimal use of steel and concrete, yet the ability to hold dozen of feet of dirt overhead. The dirt is essentially free and can be used in lieu of costly building materials to provide substantial blast and radiation protection.

Another issue with the typical silo layout is drainage. Sitting in your living room, you could easily find yourself 50 or more feet below the ground-water level. Building into a hillside presents more-practical options for drainage engineering.

I believe that an essential element of a secure home is practicality. There is very little that is practical about a missile silo, and at the same time there are practical alternatives that provide almost as much blast protection.
 

hitssquad

Inactive
By the way, CFI, you just slashdotted that geocities site. It was interesting reading while it lasted. Attached are the graphics:
 

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stillprepping

Membership Revoked
hits,
"The filled seams will be weak and leaky precisely because they are not monolithic. Monolithic means no cold joints exist. Cold joints are created whenever fresh concrete is applied next to concrete that has already set. The AI structures have nothing but cold joints all around them. This one reason why they explode when subjected to tornado winds."


i disagree.

the 'seams' are filled with a special blend of elastomers and cement that dont crack. and i'm not aware of any ai domes that have ever exploded. if you are, please share.

the sections of ai domes are solidly joined with iron (i believe) and are extremely strong. what i particularly like about them is that the outside is reinforced concrete and resists flying debris better than the monolithic dome whose exterior is of fabric over foam over concrete. i had a sample of the outer fabric, and it IS extremely tough. but i'd imagine that tree branches and other sharp stuff flying around a high speeds would tear into it.
 

Christian for Israel

Knight of Jerusalem
hitssquad said:
By the way, CFI, you just slashdotted that geocities site. It was interesting reading while it lasted. Attached are the graphics:
huh? slashdotted???

that is an extensive site though, it covers all nuclear missile systems and includes maps to all deactivated silos. as for parking the car...that's what the silo elevator is for. ;)

if anyone is interested, there's a titan I complex for sale in washington state...it's been cleaned out and is ready to move in to.

here's what you get (minus the missiles, of course :D). hey hitsquad, it even has domes. :lol:

(brother, i agree with you entirely, i'm just having fun with you.)

drawing_underground_silo_complex.jpg
 

hitssquad

Inactive
Strength and thermal-management qualities of geodesics vs monolithics

stillprepping said:
the 'seams' are filled with a special blend of elastomers and cement that dont crack.
A crack is not a cold joint, and monothic domes are made with the same formula...
monolithic.com/construction/mix/index.html
http://www.monolithic.com/construction/flyash

...and, additionally, monolithic domes benefit from compression of the concrete by the force of pneumatic shotcreting and from an improved curing environment. Pasting concrete onto the outside of a building is not the same thing as shotcreting the inside. The concrete placed on the insde by shotcreting will always be stronger, given the same ingredient formula.

Personally, I would use PVA fibers instead of nylon fibers, and I would use silica fume in addition to or instead of fly ash. This should give much greater strength to any building, given that the suring process is controlled (silica fume concrete requires much-greater humidity -- something that can easily be provided in the controlled atmosphere of an inflated airform). For absolutely maximum strength, I would use reactive powder concrete with no large aggregate and I would cure the concrete immediately after shotcreting by autoclaving (steaming) the interior of the dome at 195 degrees Farenheit for 4 days. That should produce ~30,000 psi compressive- and ~1000 psi tensile- strength concrete.
concreteproducts.com/mag/concrete_lafarge_introduces_psi


stillprepping said:
i'm not aware of any ai domes that have ever exploded.
There are no AI domes that have been exposed to serious tornadoes. On their web site, they admitted that their domes only computer model as safe up to 230 mph.
http://www.aidomes.com/faq_strength.htm#S1

Right below that, it says, "The standard design will accommodate 150 mph winds."
http://www.aidomes.com/faq_strength.htm#S2

A 300 mph wind produces four times the force of a 150 mph wind. All Monolithic Domes will easily withstand 300 mph winds, and it says this all over the Monolithic website.

It also says, "Our panel withstood 170 lbs. per sq.ft."
http://www.aidomes.com/faq_strength.htm#S3

A panel is not a building. The forces in a geodesic dome are carried in the struts. The strength of the panels is irrelevant to how the building will perform in a tornado.

There are Monolithic Domes buried 30 feet deep, carrying one ton of dirt per square foot.
monolithic.com/plan_design/survive/index.html

If the panel is the strongest part of the AI dome, and it can only hold 170 PSF, AI domes are indeed not very strong. The main problem seems to be that AI domes are geodesic domes, and geodesic domes are inherently weak structures.


the sections of ai domes are solidly joined with iron (i believe) and are extremely strong.
I could not tell from the AI website what their kit pieces are joined with. Monolithic Domes are joined with continuous crisscrossing rebar tied with wire ties and embedded in monolithic high-strength shotcrete.


what i particularly like about them is that the outside is reinforced concrete and resists flying debris better than the monolithic dome whose exterior is of fabric over foam over concrete. i had a sample of the outer fabric, and it IS extremely tough. but i'd imagine that tree branches and other sharp stuff flying around a high speeds would tear into it.
That is why people coat their monolithic domes with things like chainshell and Rhinoliner. Rhinoliner is used to coat pickup truck beds. Ray Ansel has been using it to coat the monolithic domes that he is not burying.

Chainshell is a pretty cheap option. It is simply chainlink fencing embedded in stucco.
monolithic.com/construction/coatings


This is related to another thing that is inherently wrong with the AI dome. It has the thermal mass (the concrete) on the outside, and the insulation (styrofoam) on the inside. This is backwards and will drive up your HVAC costs.
monolithic.com/plan_design/cuthbertson/

Also, moisture will be drawn through cracks in the stucco to the cold concrete. The result will be a home filled with toxic mold.
monolithic.com/plan_design/vapor_drive

http://www.monolithic.com/plan_design/belowgrade


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"...not insulating properly will invite condensation.

"So, the most common cause for failure of underground houses is not gross heat escaping the structure but an interior surface temperature that allows condensation. South uses a simple demonstration to prove his point: a glass of ice water sitting on a table. "The ice water is obviously taking on heat from the room," he says, "and if there were millions of glasses of ice water they would cool the room. But there's only one. Still that one proves the axiom opposites attract. The heat in the room is attracted to that glass of ice water, and since the surface temperature of the glass is far below that of the room, moisture condenses and begins running down the glass."

According to South, an underground house can be compared to that glass of ice water. He says, "The moisture in the air condenses when it contacts cool outside walls. Though there may not be enough moisture to run, it will be enough to attract mold and mildew.

"The only answer is to have enough insulation so that the interior surface temperature of the walls equals the temperature of the air inside the house."
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The outsides of AI domes have no insulation -- this is a recipe for disaster and also happens to be one of the principal reasons that geodesic domes have such a poor reputation with the public.
 
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