POL Brits now starting to get denied medical care if they have "wrong" views

[MinnesotaSmith]

Should Racists Get Health Care?

Political correctness recently took a dangerous turn in the United Kingdom when the North Bristol National Health Service Trust announced that hospital patients who use offensive, racist, or sexist language will cease receiving medical care as soon as it is safe to end their treatment. The...

www.unz.com

Should Racists Get Health Care?
RON PAUL• DECEMBER 30, 2019
• 500 WORDS • 34 COMMENTS

"Political correctness recently took a dangerous turn in the United Kingdom when the North Bristol National Health Service Trust announced that hospital patients who use offensive, racist, or sexist language will cease receiving medical care as soon as it is safe to end their treatment.

The condition that treatment will not be withdrawn until doing so is safe seems to imply that no one will actually suffer from this policy. However, health-care providers have great discretion to determine when it is “safe” to withhold treatment. So, patients could be left with chronic pain or be denied certain procedures that could improve their health but are not necessary to make them “safe.” Patients accused of racism or sexism could also find themselves at the bottom of the NHS’s infamous “waiting lists,” unable to receive treatment until it truly is a matter of life and death.

Since many people define racism and sexism as “anything I disagree with,” the new policy will no doubt lead to people being denied medical care for statements that most reasonable people would consider unobjectionable.
This is not the first time NHS has withheld treatment because of an individual’s behavior. A couple years ago, another local health committee announced it would withhold routine or nonemergency surgeries from smokers and the obese. Since reducing smoking and obesity benefits both individual patients and the health care system as a whole, this policy may appear defensible. But denying or delaying care violates medical ethics and sets a dangerous precedent. If treatment could be denied to smokers and the obese, then it could also be denied to those who engage in promiscuous sex, drive over the speed limit, don’t get the “proper” number of vaccinations for themselves and their children, or have “dangerous” political views.

Government bureaucrats denying care to individuals for arbitrary reasons is the inevitable result of government interference in the health-care market. Government intervention is supposed to ensure quality and affordable (or free) care for all. But, government intervention artificially lowers the costs of health care to patients while increasing costs to providers. As demand rises and supply falls, government imposes rationing to address the shortages and other problems caused by prior government interference.

Rationing has been part of American health care at least since the passage of the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973. Every plan to expand government’s role in health care contains some form of rationing.
Advocates for government intervention in health care will counter complaints about rationing by saying the related health-care decisions are being made to benefit people’s quality of life. But, claiming government officials know how medical treatment can best enhance quality of life is as absurd as claiming that government officials know the correct prices of automobiles.

The only way to reverse the slide into national health care and rationing is for those who understand the economic and moral case for liberty to keep pushing to replace Obamacare and all other government intrusions into health care. Government-controlled health care must be replaced by free-market health care that empowers individuals to determine for themselves what does and does not enhance their quality of life."

(Republished from The Ron Paul Institute by permission...)

 

[Mark D]

Communism. It never changes.

 

[vestige]

Denial of electrical service in response to denial of medical care will encourage them to reconsider their position.

Brits take note.

 

[eXe]

The bigger question is, how on earth would a doctor know your views? They have no business to that info and quite frankly I would lie if asked. They are in for a wake up call when they deny healthcare to the wrong person who might die without it..

 

[Chance]

"Political correctness recently took a dangerous turn in the United Kingdom when the North Bristol National Health Service Trust announced that hospital patients who use offensive, racist, or sexist language will cease receiving medical care as soon as it is safe to end their treatment. "

The beginnings of ....and if you don't take the mark of the beast you can neither buy nor sell.

'Medicare for All' will be the way in America to do the same thing easily.

 

[MinnesotaSmith]

The bigger question is, how on earth would a doctor know your views? They have no business to that info and quite frankly I would lie if asked. They are in for a wake up call when they deny healthcare to the wrong person who might die without it..

Universal medical ID combined with Big Brother collation of all info from your life will provide that easily enough.
Re your idea of (moral, don't get me wrong) retribution for wrongful care denial, don't forget that the Brit whites are largely disarmed, and are unlikely to get a result out of a PC legal system that goes against PC.

 

[Knoxville's Joker]

Britain is dealing with some very hostile issues right now. Healthcare there is becoming rather toxic and this may be a means to address the fact that the patients have to be nice.

 

[MinnesotaSmith]

Britain is dealing with some very hostile issues right now. Healthcare there is becoming rather toxic and this may be a means to address the fact that the patients have to be nice.

I predict this will only be used on whites and/or known Christians, predominantly males. If there is a to-do involving darks and/or Muslims, anything short of a serious stabbing, it would be the medical workers that received all of the sanctioning. That's how upside-down world the U.K. is becoming.

 

[Altura Ct.]

You will think proper thoughts or we will kill you.

 

[Knoxville's Joker]

I predict this will only be used on whites and/or known Christians, predominantly males. If there is a to-do involving darks and/or Muslims, anything short of a serious stabbing, it would be the medical workers that received all of the sanctioning. That's how upside-down world the U.K. is becoming.

Yup. Brexit is the beginning. And I suspect as the EU starts to collapse the difficulties in punishment will be moot as Europe gets more and more problematic.

 

[Anrol5]

Trust someone like Ron Paul to get the wrong end of the stick

The NHS has said for a long time now that any physical violence towards staff will a person ejected from any medical establishment, whether that is a hospital, GP surgery, physio centre, or any other place funded by the NHS, and that ban will apply to *ALL* other places too! Yes they can come for treatment, but under strict conditions.

The NHS is now saying verbal abuse will not be tolerated either. Good for them.

How would you like to help someone how is physically, mentally, or verbally abusing you? How would you like to help someone who is calling you a long list of vile name, muddled up with many expletives

Staff do not enjoy treating people who are abusive towards them.

Quite rightly the management of the NHS has said enough is enough. Good for them.

As to American versus UK health systems, it is hard to compare the two. In the UK, as it is public money, there is complete and utter openness. You get to see things warts and all. Every section of the NHS is measured against a whole host of performance measures. Mistakes, bad practices are all dragged into the open, for everyone to see.

In the UK there is a huge push to get private hospitals to work to the same level of openness. All the recent appalling cases of patients - being scarred for life by doctors or even dying, are in private hospitals, that do not have this warts and all approach. Doctors that are barred from working in the NHS, can still work in private hospitals.

Now in the US you have such things like NDAs, that stop people finding out what went wrong. The USA health care system, does not publish the long performance data, that NHS funded systems do. And from recent cases like the cervical smear scandal in Eire, where a US company, knowingly used bad practices, and women died; it would appear they thought they could cover things up with an NDA. It seems covering up practices that kill patients is standard practice in the US. This company got the shock of their life, when they found they had to publish all the gory details of their failings. So exactly how good are American medical companies? The cervical smear scandal, would say some are truly terrible, and NDAs stop them being put out of business.

So is health care in the USA better than in the UK? Well certainly there are centers of excellence, but health care, for ordinary citizens, without that warts and all data you simply do not know.

And health care in the USA is only for those who can afford. If you start look at things raw data, that looks at survival rates, life expectancy, etc., things do not look so good, and when it comes to maternal death rates, and infant mortality rates, well I would be ashamed to be an American.

Wouldn’t it be better for Ron Paul to concentrate on getting these performance measure introduced to every medical establishment in the country, so every American citizen, knows exactly what quality of care they are getting?

I guess taking a cheap pot shot at another country's health care system, is just so much easier.

Anrol

 

[Melodi]

This was met with a strong public backlash in the UK, just as it should be - this news is actually several months old and to my knowledge has not actually been implemented or is likely to be.

If it is, there will be legal challenges and I suspect any NHS Trust stupid enough to try it will be caught up in lawsuits for years.

It isn't true they can't be sued, it just isn't nearly as common as lawsuits against health providers in the US are; also there may be issues about criminally denying access to care.

 

[jward]

Don't need to change legal code to enact differing standards of care for folk...

 

[Anrol5]

Don't need to change legal code to enact differing standards of care for folk...

In the UK there are very, very strong anti discrimination laws, unlike in the USA. A hint of discrimination..... Not Good!

 

[MinnesotaSmith]

In the UK there are very, very strong anti discrimination laws, unlike in the USA. A hint of discrimination..... Not Good!

Not against whites, males, Christians, or conservatives these days, not that they apply. I'm surprised to see you online right now; I thought you had a Young Pioneers meeting.

 

[Squid]

Universal healthcare has never been about health or costs it has always been about another lever of control.

Sorry can’t restart your heart you have a Maga hat...

Why do so many Pediatrician forms ask about mental health and if there are weapons in the home. Take computerized medical records, govt controlled healthcare and the new weapon confiscation laws together and presto...

 

[Border Collie Dad]

Anrol5, do you have a link to the Ron Paul info you posted?

That sounds very unlike him

 

[joannita]

I have a friend, an American, who is a nurse. She reports that patients there are excuisitely polite . The Russian nurses, on the other hand...

 

[Tristan]

The bigger question is, how on earth would a doctor know your views? They have no business to that info and quite frankly I would lie if asked. They are in for a wake up call when they deny healthcare to the wrong person who might die without it..

Social media, slips 'o the tongue under partial sedation, she said that he said "xxxx", etc. etc.

More insidious is the trend, know what I mean?

 

[summerthyme]

I have a friend, an American, who is a nurse. She reports that patients there are excuisitely polite . The Russian nurses, on the other hand...

Well, maybe most of them. But there have definitely been reports of patients refusing (or trying to refuse) care from certain demographics... some natives don't want Muslim carers, for example. (I don't blame them... I've had a few experiences with Muslim doctors who, while they were technically excellent, their cultural biases meant women got second rate care... if that) But from the little I've read, a bigger problem is immigrants refusing to let male doctors or nurses touch their wives or daughters... and oddly enough, they apparently get away with it!

As usual, a double standard, and these new rules will make it worse.

Summerthyme

 

[MountainBiker]

Why in the world would anyone in a healthcare setting think it is appropriate to be talking politics or social issues? The only thing I talk about are my health issues. Anything else is none of their business, nor do I flatter myself to think anyone there is interested in hearing what I think about political matters or social issues.

 

[Luddite]

"I guess taking a cheap pot shot at another country's health care system, is just so much easier.

Anrol"

Would me, the patient, telling you, the provider, to "wash your dirty hands" before touching me be considered abuse?

Lack of competition creates poor performance Every Time.

 

[Luddite]

Well, maybe most of them. But there have definitely been reports of patients refusing (or trying to refuse) care from certain demographics... some natives don't want Muslim carers, for example. (I don't blame them... I've had a few experiences with Muslim doctors who, while they were technically excellent, their cultural biases meant women got second rate care... if that) But from the little I've read, a bigger problem is immigrants refusing to let male doctors or nurses touch their wives or daughters... and oddly enough, they apparently get away with it!

As usual, a double standard, and these new rules will make it worse.

Summerthyme

Co-worker's wife got tired of signing off on med charts behind the Doctors " A trillion praises to Allah"
She started signing "A trillion praises to Jesus". She got called on the HR carpet and sternly told to stop it. She laughed at them and told them she'd quit when the Doctors quit.

A couple more threats of being fired, HR realizing she couldn't be threatened into stopping meant the doctors now sign charts "A trillion praises to god" . Small victory for the red-neck RN

 

[Richard]

Just say nothing if you're a patient, I would challenge this legally as convicted criminals get medical care under the NHS.
The public sector in the UK is crap but you have to know how to deal with it, as a taxpayer you pay their salaries and cannot be denied benefits.\This is all part of the Communist approach, disagree with the state and you will be put in prison or denied rights which you've paid for,

 

[Knoxville's Joker]

Co-worker's wife got tired of signing off on med charts behind the Doctors " A trillion praises to Allah"
She started signing "A trillion praises to Jesus". She got called on the HR carpet and sternly told to stop it. She laughed at them and told them she'd quit when the Doctors quit.

A couple more threats of being fired, HR realizing she couldn't be threatened into stopping meant the doctors now sign charts "A trillion praises to god" . Small victory for the red-neck RN

And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Richard]

I do not know of a case or my personal experience whereby patients are quizzed as to regards their beliefs and denied treatment accordingly, in reality patients are not interrogated about anything except their symptoms. They are treated by the standards of the NHS according to their medical problem. It is not NHS practice by information gathering techniques to quiz patients about their personal beliefs.
I expect he Labour Party would like to change the situation but it does not exist at the moment.

More importantly in the NHS there are problems with the beliefs, attitudes and inefficiency of staff in the NHS, I have numerous examples of this in my own personal experience and in extremis there are situations such as Nurse Lucy Letby who was accused of murdering 8, 11 or 17 babies at the Countess of Duchess hospital in Cheshire.

This is the real problem with socialised healthcare, iatrogenic harm caused by medical procedures and staff incompetency.

 

[Melodi]

Thank you, Richard, I was hoping you would comment, I mean so far I hadn't heard of anyone actually being denied treatment just that story that some trust or another said they might do so.

But, although I've lived in the UK (25 years ago) and have many friends in the UK, I am not there and certainly don't hear anything.

So while there are issues (just as there are in Ireland) it sounds like this was one of those "feeler" stories like "Go Vegan or we will make you eat Bugs" that the British Press tends to throw around especially on slow news days.

 

[homecanner1]

Can someone EU based and enlighten us on this situation in the Netherlands. That people can be labled "confused/dementia" if they profess anti muslim sentiments and then institutionalized? Is this current protocol or proposed legal action?

 

[20Gauge]

"Political correctness recently took a dangerous turn in the United Kingdom when the North Bristol National Health Service Trust announced that hospital patients who use offensive, racist, or sexist language will cease receiving medical care as soon as it is safe to end their treatment. "

The beginnings of ....and if you don't take the mark of the beast you can neither buy nor sell.

'Medicare for All' will be the way in America to do the same thing easily.

This is just an excuse. They have run out of resources and now have to find "justifiable" reasons to cut it off to large sections of the population. This is just a test of the new system.

 

[Knoxville's Joker]

This is just an excuse. They have run out of resources and now have to find "justifiable" reasons to cut it off to large sections of the population. This is just a test of the new system.

Valid point in light of the Brexit shortages looming. The problem is that once folks realize they do not need doctors, the system starts to fail even more.

 

[COelf]

It is going on here in the US too just not as overt. We were taught if a person is overweight, elderly, or smokes to be less aggressive in treatment than a younger healthy (?) person. The public health classes I took stressed the importance of using resources on people who could most benefit and that is the younger healthier people.