DISASTER A good read on the Cascadia Subduction Zone danger

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
Among all the doom and gloom now going on here in the USA, it doesn't hurt, especially for those of us who live in the Pacific Northwest, to know that a potential natural disaster awaits us. The last time this happened was in January of 1700. The result was catastrophic, including a tsunami in Japan, although given the lack of cities and millions of people, the death toll was reduced to wiping out multiple coastal Indian villages. There is good jpg of the zone, but I can't post it here from the library computer.
The link is here.

http://strangesounds.org/2016/07/th...a-worst-disaster-history-continent-video.html

An earthquake will destroy a sizable portion of the coastal Northwest.
The question is when. And keep in mind: The next full-margin rupture of the Cascadia subduction zone will spell the worst natural disaster in the history of the continent.


When the 2011 earthquake and tsunami struck Tohoku, Japan, Chris Goldfinger was two hundred miles away, in the city of Kashiwa, at an international meeting on seismology. As the shaking started, everyone in the room began to laugh. Earthquakes are common in Japan—that one was the third of the week—and the participants were, after all, at a seismology conference. Then everyone in the room checked the time.

Seismologists know that how long an earthquake lasts is a decent proxy for its magnitude. The 1989 earthquake in Loma Prieta, California, which killed sixty-three people and caused six billion dollars’ worth of damage, lasted about fifteen seconds and had a magnitude of 6.9. A thirty-second earthquake generally has a magnitude in the mid-sevens. A minute-long quake is in the high sevens, a two-minute quake has entered the eights, and a three-minute quake is in the high eights. By four minutes, an earthquake has hit magnitude 9.0.

When Goldfinger looked at his watch, it was quarter to three. The conference was wrapping up for the day. He was thinking about sushi. The speaker at the lectern was wondering if he should carry on with his talk. The earthquake was not particularly strong. Then it ticked past the sixty-second mark, making it longer than the others that week. The shaking intensified. The seats in the conference room were small plastic desks with wheels. Goldfinger, who is tall and solidly built, thought, No way am I crouching under one of those for cover. At a minute and a half, everyone in the room got up and went outside.

It was March. There was a chill in the air, and snow flurries, but no snow on the ground. Nor, from the feel of it, was there ground on the ground. The earth snapped and popped and rippled. It was, Goldfinger thought, like driving through rocky terrain in a vehicle with no shocks, if both the vehicle and the terrain were also on a raft in high seas. The quake passed the two-minute mark. The trees, still hung with the previous autumn’s dead leaves, were making a strange rattling sound. The flagpole atop the building he and his colleagues had just vacated was whipping through an arc of forty degrees. The building itself was base-isolated, a seismic-safety technology in which the body of a structure rests on movable bearings rather than directly on its foundation. Goldfinger lurched over to take a look. The base was lurching, too, back and forth a foot at a time, digging a trench in the yard. He thought better of it, and lurched away. His watch swept past the three-minute mark and kept going.

Oh, shit, Goldfinger thought, although not in dread, at first: in amazement. For decades, seismologists had believed that Japan could not experience an earthquake stronger than magnitude 8.4. In 2005, however, at a conference in Hokudan, a Japanese geologist named Yasutaka Ikeda had argued that the nation should expect a magnitude 9.0 in the near future—with catastrophic consequences, because Japan’s famous earthquake-and-tsunami preparedness, including the height of its sea walls, was based on incorrect science. The presentation was met with polite applause and thereafter largely ignored. Now, Goldfinger realized as the shaking hit the four-minute mark, the planet was proving the Japanese Cassandra right.

For a moment, that was pretty cool: a real-time revolution in earthquake science. Almost immediately, though, it became extremely uncool, because Goldfinger and every other seismologist standing outside in Kashiwa knew what was coming. One of them pulled out a cell phone and started streaming videos from the Japanese broadcasting station NHK, shot by helicopters that had flown out to sea soon after the shaking started. Thirty minutes after Goldfinger first stepped outside, he watched the tsunami roll in, in real time, on a two-inch screen.

In the end, the magnitude-9.0 Tohoku earthquake and subsequent tsunami killed more than eighteen thousand people, devastated northeast Japan, triggered the meltdown at the Fukushima power plant, and cost an estimated two hundred and twenty billion dollars. The shaking earlier in the week turned out to be the foreshocks of the largest earthquake in the nation’s recorded history. But for Chris Goldfinger, a paleoseismologist at Oregon State University and one of the world’s leading experts on a little-known fault line, the main quake was itself a kind of foreshock: a preview of another earthquake still to come.

Most people in the United States know just one fault line by name: the San Andreas, which runs nearly the length of California and is perpetually rumored to be on the verge of unleashing “the big one.” That rumor is misleading, no matter what the San Andreas ever does. Every fault line has an upper limit to its potency, determined by its length and width, and by how far it can slip. For the San Andreas, one of the most extensively studied and best understood fault lines in the world, that upper limit is roughly an 8.2—a powerful earthquake, but, because the Richter scale is logarithmic, only six per cent as strong as the 2011 event in Japan.

Just north of the San Andreas, however, lies another fault line. Known as the Cascadia subduction zone, it runs for seven hundred miles off the coast of the Pacific Northwest, beginning near Cape Mendocino, California, continuing along Oregon and Washington, and terminating around Vancouver Island, Canada. The “Cascadia” part of its name comes from the Cascade Range, a chain of volcanic mountains that follow the same course a hundred or so miles inland. The “subduction zone” part refers to a region of the planet where one tectonic plate is sliding underneath (subducting) another. Tectonic plates are those slabs of mantle and crust that, in their epochs-long drift, rearrange the earth’s continents and oceans. Most of the time, their movement is slow, harmless, and all but undetectable. Occasionally, at the borders where they meet, it is not.

Continues at web page
 

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked
A map, a list, and two questions...

U.S. seismic risk

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-131-02/CUShazard.html

CUShazard.jpg


"The U.S. Geological Survey shaking-hazard maps for the United States are based on current information about the rate at which earthquakes occur in different areas and on how far strong shaking extends from earthquake sources.
Colors on this particular map show the levels of horizontal shaking that have a 1-in-50 chance of being exceeded in a 50-year period.
Shaking is expressed as a percentage of g (g is the acceleration of a falling object due to gravity)."

==================================================

Fuller version of the Mercalli Intensity scale for earthquake effects from
http://resilience.abag.ca.gov/shaking/mmi/

MMI Value (from I to XII)
Summary Damage Description Used on Maps
Description of Shaking Severity
Full description shortened from Elementary Seismology

http://resilience.abag.ca.gov/shaking/mmi/

mmi1-150x150.gif
I
Not mapped Not mapped Not felt.


mmi2-150x150.gif
II
Not mapped Not mapped Felt by people sitting or on upper floors of buildings.


mmi3-150x150.gif
III
Not mapped Not mapped Felt by almost all indoors. Hanging objects swing. Vibration like passing of light trucks. May not be recognized as an earthquake.


mmi4-150x150.gif
IV
Not mapped Not mapped Vibration felt like passing of heavy trucks. Stopped cars rock. Hanging objects swing. Windows, dishes, doors rattle. Glasses clink. In the upper range of IV, wooden walls and frames creak.


mmi5-150x150.gif
V
Light Pictures Move Felt outdoors. Sleepers wakened. Liquids disturbed, some spilled. Small unstable objects displaced or upset. Doors swing. Pictures move. Pendulum clocks stop.


mmi6-150x150.gif
VI
Moderate Objects Fall Felt by all. People walk unsteadily. Many frightened. Windows crack. Dishes, glassware, knickknacks, and books fall off shelves. Pictures off walls. Furniture moved or overturned. Weak plaster, adobe buildings, and some poorly built masonry buildings cracked. Trees and bushes shake visibly.


mmi7-150x150.gif
VII
Strong Nonstructural Damage Difficult to stand or walk. Noticed by drivers of cars. Furniture broken. Damage to poorly built masonry buildings. Weak chimneys broken at roof line. Fall of plaster, loose bricks, stones, tiles, cornices, unbraced parapets and porches. Some cracks in better masonry buildings. Waves on ponds.


mmi8-150x150.gif
VIII
Very Strong Moderate Damage Steering of cars affected. Extensive damage to unreinforced masonry buildings, including partial collapse. Fall of some masonry walls. Twisting, falling of chimneys and monuments. Wood-frame houses moved on foundations if not bolted; loose partition walls thrown out. Tree branches broken.


mmi9-150x150.gif
IX
Violent Heavy Damage General panic. Damage to masonry buildings ranges from collapse to serious damage unless modern design. Wood-frame structures rack, and, if not bolted, shifted off foundations. Underground pipes broken.



mmi10-150x150.gif
X
Very Violent Extreme Damage Poorly built structures destroyed with their foundations. Even some well-built wooden structures and bridges heavily damaged and needing replacement. Water thrown on banks of canals, rivers, lakes, etc.


mmi11-150x150.gif
XI
Not mapped because these intensities are typically limited to areas with ground failure. Rails bent greatly. Underground pipelines completely out of service.


mmi12-150x150.gif
XII
Not mapped because these intensities are typically limited to areas with ground failure. Damage nearly total. Large rock masses displaced. Lines of sight and level distorted. Objects thrown into the air.

====================================================

Okay, all that said, what would be the real, strategic-level effects for the U.S. of such a calamity? The ports (use AND access), rail lines, highways, electric generating and transmission equipment, pipelines, water supply infrastructure, airports, air defense and air traffic control radar, weather detection, etc., infrastructure there would all be hosed, and all would be unambiguous losses, no question. But, who overwhelmingly lives in those areas now? If you take out the liberals, the socialists, the hippies, the feminists, evangelistic practicers of weird non/anti-Christian religions, the single mothers, the bastards, the convicted criminals, the homosexuals (and worse sexual pervs), radical vegans/animal "rights" nuts, the environmentalists, the potgrowers/users, the Asians and Hispanics (most clearly with no loyalty to Heritage America or Americans), the homeless, the IT-industry scammers, etc., who is left there? Every year, anyone who would be recognizable as a productive, worth-keeping, loyal American by the men who wrote the U.S. Constitution becomes ever more a minority in the zone the OP notes would be largely destroyed.

So, some predictions seem obvious and defensible:

1) Such a catastrophe would for a number of years gut the power of those "anti-Americans" on the Left Coast, as many would die, and the survivors would be more concerned with base needs and recovery/flight than their usual causing trouble and attacking the foundations of the Republic, with an apparent eye to destroying the U.S. as anyone an adult as recently as 1960 would define it.

2) This event would intensify and make near-instant conclusion (many to most very, very undesirably) to many of the problems and trends ever-increasingly bedeviling the U.S. in recent decades. For example, the U.S. would be too distracted to discourage and slow down what the Chicoms are clearly moving towards WRT the South China Sea, conquering Taiwan, etc. Illinois, NJ, and New England state gov'ts could forget about help with their pension and gov't debt issues.

OTOH, President Trump would likely sail through both re-election and his next Supreme Court nomination. He'd undoubtedly IMO handle the aftermath easily more competently as any President since Nixon, and would get a support bump greater than Bush I after the first Gulf War. You could certainly forget about much of the intellectual poison that is constantly mass-produced on the Left Coast continuing to flood out and damage the rest of the U.S. for some years, from both all the anti-American types that'd be killed, or at least impoverished/displaced/distracted. More than a few foreign diversities would permanently leave the U.S., just as the Chinese railway workers in the late 1800s did.

So, like the hypothetical (but possible) scenario of HIV or the like becoming much more transmissable and much more quickly fatal, while the human cost of such a disaster would be nearly World-War-level, it would also have some very real silver linings to those aren't the PC/SJW/anti-white types.
 
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tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
MinnesotaSmith, I think you're giving way too much power to even the worst-case CSZ event. Regardless of what has been put out there, Vancouver/BC, Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco will almost certainly not be wiped off the face of the planet. The vast majority of people out here live inland, not on the coast where the damage will be the most severe. Tsunamis will probably not even impact Seattle or Vancouver/BC all that much (even though both are directly on the water) and certainly won't go up the Columbia River to Portland. From everything I've read the death toll even in the worst case scenario would most likely be measured in perhaps the mid-tens of thousands and not hundreds of thousands or millions, so a lot more people are going to survive than will die. It will probably be easier to evacuate a lot of the refugees than to provide long-term care for them in the impacted areas, so maybe you should be thinking about all those people that you so strongly disapprove of pouring over the Cascade Mountains (and possibly the Rocky Mountains) and settling at least mid-term in Red States America … they might become your new neighbors!
 

JF&P

Deceased
MinnesotaSmith, I think you're giving way too much power to even the worst-case CSZ event. Regardless of what has been put out there, Vancouver/BC, Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco will almost certainly not be wiped off the face of the planet. The vast majority of people out here live inland, not on the coast where the damage will be the most severe. Tsunamis will probably not even impact Seattle or Vancouver/BC all that much (even though both are directly on the water) and certainly won't go up the Columbia River to Portland. From everything I've read the death toll even in the worst case scenario would most likely be measured in perhaps the mid-tens of thousands and not hundreds of thousands or millions, so a lot more people are going to survive than will die. It will probably be easier to evacuate a lot of the refugees than to provide long-term care for them in the impacted areas, so maybe you should be thinking about all those people that you so strongly disapprove of pouring over the Cascade Mountains (and possibly the Rocky Mountains) and settling at least mid-term in Red States America … they might become your new neighbors!

Pollyanna much?
 

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked
Ah, so the OP is overblown, then...

Seismology and regional geology of the U.S. Northwest are not my strong suits.

Well, should the (likely to come, and likely to be prolonged) CW2 already be underway when the next Cascadian event in the OP comes to pass, two predictions are easy, no matter its magnitude:

1) There'd be less outside aid than if it happened now (so more dead libtards than otherwise),

and

2) the refugees would have a harder time fleeing out-of-state, with nonmilitary air travel likely already ceased, bridges and tunnels commonly already blown up, less gasoline pre-tsunami to enable long drives by any vehicles, etc.

Say, tanstaafl, you (hopefully) don't LIKE all those groups that would seemingly bear the brunt of a tsunami in a region that had already largely cleared nonliberal whites out of it, do you?
 

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Actually the full article isn't that bad on the whole (I just finished reading it) and does a good job of providing the backstory to the CSZ. The article does include the famous "everything west of Interstate 5 will be toast" line, but that's more alarmism than reality if by "toast" you think "pile of rubble with no chance of survival." Instead of total destruction (not all construction out here is unreinforced masonry, which is the type most vulnerable to prolonged shaking) the inland population areas will likely have to deal with the aftermath of an infrastructure that has all but collapsed, with months-to-years of rebuilding to look forward to. The article does point out that no one from government is going to be coming to hold anyone's hand in the hours and days afterwards. It's worth noting that Los Angeles is well south of the CSZ's southern end (the graphic showing nothing but red all down the West Coast is about more than the CSZ), so all that bad L.A. cultural influence would be unaffected if the San Andreas doesn't let go at the same time. In fact, I suspect the greater L.A. metro area may well have far more people than all the people in the potential CSZ damage zone combined, including Vancouver/BC.

As to all the groups MinnesotaSmith mentions, I seriously doubt that the earthquake and tsunamis are going to choose their victims based on group identity. Unless the group is the one where they all rush out to see the uncovered seafloor and pick up flopping fish. That group is definitely going to die in its entirety. Despite the stereotype, not everyone west of the Cascades and on the West Coast falls only into those groups -- I suspect a lot of the forum would be surprised just how many conservatives (and guns) there are out here, even in the Blue Counties.
 

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked
Perhaps, but...

As to all the groups MinnesotaSmith mentions, I seriously doubt that the earthquake and tsunamis are going to choose their victims based on group identity. Unless the group is the one where they all rush out to see the uncovered seafloor and pick up flopping fish. That group is definitely going to die in its entirety. Despite the stereotype, not everyone west of the Cascades and on the West Coast falls only into those groups -- I suspect a lot of the forum would be surprised just how many conservatives (and guns) there are out here, even in the Blue Counties.

I would have hoped that the ones who don't have terminal cancer would all be reserving U-Hauls by now, so they can move back to America. Them continuing to voluntarily stay in the worst of commieland is akin to Jews with the means to emigrate hanging around in Germany post-1935 or so.
 
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cleobc

Veteran Member
Looking at the seismic risk map, we are in a red area between two maroon areas. Our area is rural and very conservative. A Cascadian earthquake wouldn't bother us, but there have been some huge earthquakes not far from here that aren't well known because of the low population.
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
First, Doomer Doug lives here.:D

Second, the true damage would be to the core infrastructure of modern life, although pretty much every building in Portland, below 6th avenue is made of unreinforced brick, built up to one century ago and would truly become a pile of rubble.

Further, the local governments would be unable to deal with both the scope and scale of the disaster. They would need to get relief supplies from the rest of the USA, and I don't see Red States being in a hurry to help them. We would have, in my opinion, a scenario like Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico. As such, it would take at least a decade to deal with all the damage to the electric grid, communications, transit. I will also remind you all that such a quake would likely take down the ports of Vancouver, BC, Portland, San Francisco and possibly both San Diego and Los Angeles. It would also cut the I-5 Freeway corridor, damage rail lines, and airports. This means the physical ability to transport stuff, and import and export stuff, like grain to China, or import Chinese products would be curtailed. Let's have the example of all Chinese imports having to transit the Panama Canal, go to East Coast ports. That alone would cost billions in additional costs.

Finally, although most of the damage from any Tsunami would be directly on the coast, you would still see significant damage in Seattle, San Francisco and Vancouver.

If you look at what the 1700 earthquake did, and then impose it on all the modern cities, and other population centers, it becomes clear that massive damage would be done. It is also a fact that the spreading earthquake waves would penetrate deep inland, likely all the way to Eastern Oregon and Washington. This would likely disrupt all rail traffic along the northern lines from Pasco to Spokane and east to Chicago.
 

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The only way any parts of Portland might be "washed out to sea" would be if Bonneville Dam collapses in a big way and I think that's unlikely. Damaged and the hydroelectric facilities taken offline, maybe and even likely as they insist on a full top-to-bottom inspection, but I think not a full-on collapse where all the water behind the dam rushes down river all at once. Detailed inspections would also likely be the rule of the day for major bridges, railways, landslide-prone areas, etc. and I doubt there would be enough qualified inspectors able to get around easily enough to do all that quickly. Not to mention that all the gasoline pipelines and storage tanks for Portland pretty much converge on a zone that will almost certainly experience liquefaction in a very big way, which may mean gasoline supplies for even official vehicles will very possibly be in short supply. I think most likely is that they'll put up barricades blocking routes until the inspections can be done, and I think it's also likely that people are going to flat-out ignore the barricades in their desperate rush to get around afterwards -- I think it's a given that there won't be enough police or National Guard to man all barricades 24/7.

Doomer Doug, why do you think Los Angeles and San Diego would be severely damaged by even a full-length CSZ event? The southern end of the CSZ is off Cape Mendocino in Northern California, which I estimate is about 125 miles north of San Francisco and more than 450 miles north of Los Angeles. There have been studies suggesting a potential link between the CSZ and the San Andreas, but as far as I know there is no geological record showing that when one goes the other one always goes. The tsunamis (there will almost certainly be more than one) can of course impact areas far from the CSZ (the 1700 CSZ event was established down to the probable hour of the day via written records in Japan of a massive "orphan tsunami"), but just because they can doesn't necessarily mean they definitely will.
 

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked
Tanstaafl, you're not factoring in one crucial issue re severities...

That is the ever-decreasing funding and technical competence maintaining and repairing (let alone improving or replacing) critical complex infrastructure in those liberal areas. Think of what's happening in South Africa, only in slower motion, and you'll get an idea of what I'm referring to here.
 

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
By the way, consider that the east-west railway out of Seattle goes through the Cascade Tunnel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Tunnel). It's about 60-70 miles east of Seattle, and I gather that while it is a spectacular journey via Amtrak's Empire Builder passenger train it also has some very rugged terrain in places. Vancouver/BC is the western terminus of Canada's main east-west railway and the east-west railway out of Portland goes through the Columbia Gorge (which has in the past had some truly epic landslides).
 

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
That is the ever-decreasing funding and technical competence maintaining and repairing (let alone improving or replacing) critical complex infrastructure in those liberal areas. Think of what's happening in South Africa, only in slower motion, and you'll get an idea of what I'm referring to here.

Surely you don't think all the initial rebuilding (or even all the long-term rebuilding) will be done only with local resources and manpower? When has that ever happened in a major natural disaster in the US in the last fifty years? Katrina and Sandy both brought in huge numbers of outside technical workers and I don't see why it would be any different for a mega-quake in the PNW. If the federal and local governments can get them here and provide even basic needs (like housing, food, etc.), then I imagine outside infrastructure workers will come.
 

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked
Except, if a CSZ disaster happens during full-fledged CWII...

Surely you don't think all the initial rebuilding (or even all the long-term rebuilding) will be done only with local resources and manpower? When has that ever happened in a major natural disaster in the US in the last fifty years? Katrina and Sandy both brought in huge numbers of outside technical workers and I don't see why it would be any different for a mega-quake in the PNW. If the federal and local governments can get them here and provide even basic needs (like housing, food, etc.), then I imagine outside infrastructure workers will come.

There'd be plenty of people in Heritage America who'd be cheering it on, the exact opposite of wanting to help rebuild pre-leftist-states surrender. (It's not hard to visualize some sabotage teams sneaking in to plant explosive charges on cracking dams and bridges.)

How much help did the North help out the South with its collapsing railroad system in unconquered areas during the War of Northern Aggression during 1861-1865? Exactly.

Just a near-economic collapse without CWII would arguably logically preclude so much as a tithe of the extra-regional assistance you're expecting. The Taggart Tunnel disaster in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is a good analogy IMO.
 

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Except, if a CSZ disaster happens during full-fledged CWII...

That sounds like a good plot for a book or movie, but in my opinion unrealistic for the real world. In the real world wars with a foreign power and huge national disasters generally tend to have a way of temporarily burying any hatchets and bringing people together. You can always trump anyone's scenario with another scenario, but to me that's like when the TV series "Dallas" ended one especially miserable season with essentially "... and then he woke up."
 

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked
That sounds like a good plot for a book or movie, but in my opinion unrealistic for the real world. In the real world wars with a foreign power and huge national disasters generally tend to have a way of temporarily burying any hatchets and bringing people together. You can always trump anyone's scenario with another scenario, but to me that's like when the TV series "Dallas" ended one especially miserable season with essentially "... and then he woke up."

Sigh. The left views us, and if we're going to survive, we need to view them, as an illegitimate foreign power wrongly on U.S. soil. Lots of people on their side already openly cheer disasters in areas they perceive as less leftist. Our side may confine itself to converse "aw shucks" shrugs about possible 1906 San Francisco quake deja vus, but that doesn't mean that we don't already do it by the million for analogous events.
 
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