BRKG Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore has collapsed
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desertvet2
Veteran Member
Degenerate minds cannot operate the same as a normal one.
BUBBAHOTEPT
Veteran Member
Pothole Pete 'Booty Juice' was this caused by “dirty fuel”
RT 8min
View: https://twitter.com/KarluskaP/status/1772979945192476913
Anddddd there's your sign. That sums up the Biden regime to a tee. Only thing missing is when they rename that white racist bridge with a more woke appropriate name.
Kayak
Adrenaline Junkie
So, an hour before low tide, meaning water would've been headed out, speeding it up, possibly pulling it towards the bridge support, depending on how strong the tide's pull is in that part of the river/bay.Baltimore Tide Chart for March
Baltimore Tides | March 2024 | 30 day calendar | TideTime.org
Baltimore, united-states Tide Chart & Calendarwww.tidetime.org
Thanks for that.
Macgyver
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Macgyver
Has No Life - Lives on TB
As you get closest to the high/low mark the speed is a low as its going to get.
I was shocked how little the (1 foot) the difference is between high/low.
I'm used to NJ and it 4-6' depending on where you are.
John Deere Girl
Veteran Member
The stupid is strong in that one.
Hurricanehic
Veteran Member
Bad fuel??? How about all the fuel filters on Diesel engines? Especially on a ship. And those engines burn crap Quality fuel, so a good filtration system is a most! More noise to distract us.......
bw
Fringe Ranger
They're just brainstorming. Don't beat up on them.
Wildweasel
F-4 Phantoms Phorever
Sounds more like a failure of the switching relay that transfers the load between main and aux generators.
Profit of Doom
Dismember
Melodi
Disaster Cat
I read everything to ensure this wasn't a repeat - more of the dirty fuel and why they think it might be the case. As Capt Eddie suggested, the situation becomes murkier if it turns out to be dirty fuel. It doesn't mean that it is an attack, but the doors start to open to it. He said that contaminated fuel had to happen BEFORE entering the ship. He also thought that it was unlikely it was dirty fuel. But now, it is looking like it might be. I know nothing about shipping; I'm just going by what other knowledgeable people say, along with relatively stable news sources. First Sky was in the UK, and now this is on Zero Hedge. Pictures and charts left in for clarity.
www.zerohedge.com
WEDNESDAY, MAR 27, 2024 - 02:10 PM
Catastrophic supply chain snarls are materializing in the Mid-Atlantic area after a container ship rammed a 1.6-mile-long bridge at the Port of Baltimore, causing the bridge to collapse and paralyzing terminals along the port.
Before we shed more color on the worsening supply chain issues, a new Wall Street Journal report cites people familiar with the investigation into the crash as saying contaminated fuel could've contributed to the container ship "Dali" losing power.
According to a Coast Guard briefing report viewed by the WSJ, Dali's lights began to flicker about an hour after the ship began steaming down the marine channel out of the Baltimore Inner Harbor.
"The vessel went dead, no steering power and no electronics," said an officer aboard the ship.
"One of the engines coughed and then stopped. The smell of burned fuel was everywhere in the engine room, and it was pitch black," the officer said, adding that the vessel didn't have time to drop anchors before hitting the bridge. Minutes before the crash, officers on the ship issued a mayday call to the Coast Guard.
Source: WSJ
Fotis Pagoulatos, a naval architect in Athens, said contaminated fuel could seize up the ship's main power generators and result in a complete blackout and loss of propulsion.
During a press conference, Jennifer Homendy, chair of the National Transportation Safety Board, said an investigation is underway to review the vessel's operations and safety logs and black box recorders to determine what happened in the moments leading up to Baltimore's biggest industrial disaster in several generations.
Hours after the incident, the White House and federal government agencies quickly ruled out a cyber attack or industrial sabotage as the source of the ship's power loss. With an investigation barely underway, it would seem too preliminary to rule out those things. It's not yet illegal to have an open mind.
Despite legacy media outlets won't even entertain the slightest possibility of a cyber attack or industrial sabotage, some X users say they aren't ruling anything out, considering NATO and Russia are on the brink of a major conflict, the Red Sea crisis continues, Hamas-Irasel war rages on, and Sino-US relations have yet to recover fully.
We know that in a matter of seconds, the Dali and its all-Indian crew that rammed the bridge triggered an instant shutdown of the Port of Baltimore that could take weeks, if not months, to restore.
"This is a shut down of a major port, and rebuilding will take a significant amount of time as it is over water," Nada Sanders, a professor of supply-chain management at Northeastern University, told the WSJ in a separate note.
Sanders said, "We will see the effects domestically and globally in terms of shortages and higher prices for the average consumer."
Bloomberg Economic Insights shows that the auto, energy, and food industries will be the most affected. Here's an explanation of the disruption:
Source: Bloomberg
It's also the second-largest terminal for US coal exports, with a shutdown likely crimping shipments to India. And many more terminals will be shuttered...
Source: Bloomberg
The 984-foot ship was hauling containers of Chinese-made furniture, appliances, plasticware, and construction machinery.
Source: Bloomberg
Expect a localized shortage of these products?
Source: Bloomberg
US Customs and Border Protection provides a view into Dali's cargo.
Source: Bloomberg
Why didn't the State of Maryland or Baltimore City install protective barriers against ship strikes on the Key Bridge? Were woke Democrats in Annapolis too concerned about DEI and burning the state into the ground with reckless spending than care about infrastructure? Yet another failure by Democrats who are asleep at the wheel.
Investigators Probe 'Dirty Fuel' In Baltimore Container Ship Disaster Amid Mid-Atlantic Supply Chain Crisis | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
Investigators Probe 'Dirty Fuel' In Baltimore Container Ship Disaster Amid Mid-Atlantic Supply Chain Crisis
WEDNESDAY, MAR 27, 2024 - 02:10 PM
Catastrophic supply chain snarls are materializing in the Mid-Atlantic area after a container ship rammed a 1.6-mile-long bridge at the Port of Baltimore, causing the bridge to collapse and paralyzing terminals along the port.
Before we shed more color on the worsening supply chain issues, a new Wall Street Journal report cites people familiar with the investigation into the crash as saying contaminated fuel could've contributed to the container ship "Dali" losing power.
According to a Coast Guard briefing report viewed by the WSJ, Dali's lights began to flicker about an hour after the ship began steaming down the marine channel out of the Baltimore Inner Harbor.
"The vessel went dead, no steering power and no electronics," said an officer aboard the ship.
"One of the engines coughed and then stopped. The smell of burned fuel was everywhere in the engine room, and it was pitch black," the officer said, adding that the vessel didn't have time to drop anchors before hitting the bridge. Minutes before the crash, officers on the ship issued a mayday call to the Coast Guard.
Source: WSJ Fotis Pagoulatos, a naval architect in Athens, said contaminated fuel could seize up the ship's main power generators and result in a complete blackout and loss of propulsion.
During a press conference, Jennifer Homendy, chair of the National Transportation Safety Board, said an investigation is underway to review the vessel's operations and safety logs and black box recorders to determine what happened in the moments leading up to Baltimore's biggest industrial disaster in several generations.
Hours after the incident, the White House and federal government agencies quickly ruled out a cyber attack or industrial sabotage as the source of the ship's power loss. With an investigation barely underway, it would seem too preliminary to rule out those things. It's not yet illegal to have an open mind.
Despite legacy media outlets won't even entertain the slightest possibility of a cyber attack or industrial sabotage, some X users say they aren't ruling anything out, considering NATO and Russia are on the brink of a major conflict, the Red Sea crisis continues, Hamas-Irasel war rages on, and Sino-US relations have yet to recover fully.
We know that in a matter of seconds, the Dali and its all-Indian crew that rammed the bridge triggered an instant shutdown of the Port of Baltimore that could take weeks, if not months, to restore.
"This is a shut down of a major port, and rebuilding will take a significant amount of time as it is over water," Nada Sanders, a professor of supply-chain management at Northeastern University, told the WSJ in a separate note.
Sanders said, "We will see the effects domestically and globally in terms of shortages and higher prices for the average consumer."
Bloomberg Economic Insights shows that the auto, energy, and food industries will be the most affected. Here's an explanation of the disruption:
- The wreckage from the Francis Scott Key Bridge essentially blocks incoming and outgoing traffic to the Port of Baltimore.
- According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, the port ranked 17th in terms of total tonnage handled in 2021. We estimate it intermediates about 2%-3% of US imports.
- By those metrics, the disruption to Port of Baltimore traffic would appear to have minimal impact on the broader US economy. But that most likely understates the full effect.
Source: BloombergIt's also the second-largest terminal for US coal exports, with a shutdown likely crimping shipments to India. And many more terminals will be shuttered...
Source: BloombergThe 984-foot ship was hauling containers of Chinese-made furniture, appliances, plasticware, and construction machinery.
Source: BloombergExpect a localized shortage of these products?
Source: BloombergUS Customs and Border Protection provides a view into Dali's cargo.
Source: BloombergWhy didn't the State of Maryland or Baltimore City install protective barriers against ship strikes on the Key Bridge? Were woke Democrats in Annapolis too concerned about DEI and burning the state into the ground with reckless spending than care about infrastructure? Yet another failure by Democrats who are asleep at the wheel.
Wildweasel
F-4 Phantoms Phorever
Or it's sitting on the bottom of a shallow harbor.
Someone said upthread that they burn bunker fuel unless in port, then it's real diesel.
Separate, smaller tank and all the associated parts.
Contaminated fuel happens, a lot.
Melodi
Disaster Cat
The other question with contaminated fuel, and Capt Eddie was asked about this yesterday, is, Will Other Ships be Affected? And the answer was (more or less) that it was possible. Not certain, but possible. I would very much prefer this be an accident or even negligence (bad work practices) because those can be sorted. A good investigation can show what went wrong when and how, then come up with a new code of best practice to change things.
Bud in Fla
Veteran Member
We did 4 IC Turbines side by side years ago. Time to start up, they'd run a few minutes and the injectors would clog up. They had some kind of bacteria/mold growing in their 1.5m gallon diesel storage tank. It took a while to treat it and clean it. Apparently the fuel had been stored, untreated for a while.
A diesel engine or a combustion turbine will burn a lot of different types of fuel but dirty fuel can bring them down fast.
vector7
Dot Collector
Democrats don't believe walls or barriers work...
Listen Biden and his Administration officials says walls don't work...except for them.
RT 30secs
View: https://twitter.com/Sally718068071/status/1561869351904501761
and the Capitol after sElections are stolen...
It was also said that they fuel by barge while in port.
IIRC, storms came through there recently.
Did Tyrone happen to leave a hatch open on the fuel barge or some such thing?
There are filter units on the fuel system, but they can only intercept so much water, then bad things happen.
IIRC, storms came through there recently.
Did Tyrone happen to leave a hatch open on the fuel barge or some such thing?
There are filter units on the fuel system, but they can only intercept so much water, then bad things happen.
Capt. Eddie
Veteran Member
8
If the filters are clogged the engine (generator) doesn't run.
Macgyver
Has No Life - Lives on TB
None of the photos seem to indicate that its sitting any lower than it was.
Interesting that the channel depth is not indicated on the cart, google says 50'.
The ship has a max draft of 49 feet.
So I guess it could be sitting on the bottom.
But since the channel gets drops to 32' on the right side (outbound) maybe this thing caught the bottom and that made it pull harder right.
Interesting note about the pilot boarding area. Up here in NY it takes place much farther out to sea.
Shadow
Swift, Silent,...Sleepy
Capt. Eddie
Veteran Member
I was under the impression that they also lost propulsion at least once from the reporting I saw. That's what leads me to fuel, since it would effect both generators and main engine. It could definitely be an electrical issue though if they just lost electrical.
Bubble Head
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Bio Diesel will wreck a diesel engine. The Bio is measured in PPM. If the greenies forced Bio Diesel on the docks it could have an effect. It is the only Diesel fuel sold in Illinois. Beware when fueling in that state should you burn diesel. Try to fill up out of state and dilute if you have to. If an engine failure was due to bio diesel then we will never hear about it.
I have no evidence that Bio was on the dock but I do know greenies and the diesel manuals warn about its effects.
I have no evidence that Bio was on the dock but I do know greenies and the diesel manuals warn about its effects.
Does the Port of Baltimore have its own pilots and different areas in Chesapeake Bay have theirs?
ETA: Chesapeake Bay is 200 miles long. (per wiki)
There are 16 "ports", maybe not all are major shipping ports.
Last edited:
Bubble Head
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Captain how is the propulsion of merchant ship configured. I am very familiar with diesel engine powering a DC generator, all amps through a main control board and the required amount of amps to answer the call going to reduction motor to turn the prop. I know that may be old school but it works very well. Especially under load.
Macgyver
Has No Life - Lives on TB
"Dali is propelled by a single low-speed two-stroke crosshead diesel engine coupled to a fixed-pitch propeller. Her main engine, a 9-cylinder MAN-B&W 9S90ME-C9.2[11] unit manufactured by Hyundai Heavy Industries under license, is rated 41,480 kW (55,630 hp) at 82.5 rpm.[2] Her service speed is 22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph).[5] For maneuvering in ports, Dali has a single 3,000 kW (4,000 hp) bow thruster. Electricity is generated by two 3,840 kW (5,150 hp) and two 4,400 kW (5,900 hp) auxiliary diesel generators"
So even if they were burning regular diesel in port instead of bunker the emergency generators run on regular diesel.
The emergency generator is required to have its own fuel tank in close proximity that I believe has to above the Generator to allow gravity feed.
The main engine would have been off at dock.
The main engine does not generate electricity.
It has multiple generators that run all the time because the ship can carry refer containers that get plugged into the ship once they are loaded.
So....
The ship would have been burning the same fuel from the same tanks the whole time it was in port.
Including the fuel that was just added to the ship most likely.
They would not have switched back to bunker fuel during maneuvering.
My opinion is this was not a fuel problem
Macgyver
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I don't know that answer.Does the Port of Baltimore have its own pilots and different areas in Chesapeake Bay have theirs?
I know up here its a union thing.
So I would assume down there a different union than up here but they probably cover the whole area.
Macgyver
Has No Life - Lives on TB
These single engine ships are direct drive. Engine-shaft-prop.
Cruise ships all use the technology you mentioned although its all AC power.
vector7
Dot Collector
Former Transportation Secretary Gives Rundown On How Investigation Into Baltimore Bridge Collapse ‘Should Proceed’
By Daniel ChaitinMar 27, 2024 DailyWire.com
Former Transportation Secretary Jim Burnley, who served in the Reagan administration, discussed how the investigation “should proceed” in the coming months after the partial bridge collapse in Baltimore early Tuesday morning.
Fox News host Laura Ingraham spoke with Burnley after a container ship rammed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge, causing it to break apart. At least half a dozen people are presumed dead.
“You were the transportation secretary in like a golden age of that department in my view, and I’m not saying it in a biased fashion,” said Ingraham, who was a speechwriter in the Reagan administration.
“You were an expert on so many things but tell us what happens next, or what should happen next in this mess of a situation involving a critical port?” she asked.
“First let me mention the six apparent fatalities, apparently all highway maintenance workers. That’s one of the most dangerous and under-appreciated jobs in America,” Burnley said. “Usually, it’s motorists that threaten them and in this case, a bridge comes down.”
In the segment, which was highlighted by the Daily Caller, Burnley went on to talk about the National Transportation Safety Board, an independent federal agency tasked with determining the probable causes of transportation accidents and issuing safety recommendations.
“The way this should proceed, and I expect it will proceed, is the investigation will be led by what I believe is the most credible agency in the United States government – that’s the National Transportation Safety Board,” he said.
“It is bipartisan. In fact its most recent appointee was chief of staff at DOT [Department of Transportation] during the Trump administration,” Burnley said. “It has a highly esteemed group of subject matter experts, it will call on the various federal agencies at DOT, at DHS [Department of Homeland Security] – the Army Corps of Engineers, in this case, will be involved.”
Burnley surmised that it will “probably take quite a few months” before investigators reach their “bottom line conclusions” in looking into the Francis Scott Key Bridge incident.
“But that’s where we should all be focused, is on that agency and what it concludes,” he said. “It will make recommendations that I hope both the Executive Branch and Congress will take very seriously, whatever they are.”
Capt. Eddie
Veteran Member
What you're describing is what we would call a "diesel electric". They're very common in new offshore supply vessels with Z Drives.
The Dali from what I saw has a single 9 cylinder MAN B&W engine with conventional single shaft and fixed pitch prop. So basically engine tail shaft into gear box into shaft connected to prop.
Hope that answers what you were asking.
Macgyver
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Interesting other bit.
It appears to have made 2 different docking while there.
Hawkins Point
---
3/26/2024
1 day 10 hours
Baltimore
---
3/23/2024
2 days 9 hours
It appears to have made 2 different docking while there.
Hawkins Point
---
3/26/2024
1 day 10 hours
Baltimore
---
3/23/2024
2 days 9 hours
Capt. Eddie
Veteran Member
Good points.
I don't know the particulars in this case, but due to emission regulation vessels are sometimes required to use shore power when at the dock. Don't know if this applies in this case or not.
I think we agree the bunker oil isn't going to be the issue since it wouldn't have been being used in port anyway.
I'm still leaning toward bad diesel taken on dockside. Maybe water contamination in tanks.
Shadow
Swift, Silent,...Sleepy
Capt, would both main and aux generators be running at the same time or would the aux start after failure or fault on the main?
Shadow
Macgyver
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Dockside power for big ships is just starting to gain traction. I don't know if they have it there or if the ship even had the ability to plug in.
And as I had said the emergency generator has it own fuel tank. So even if crap fuel to out the main engine the emergency gen would be fine. I don't even know if that wiki link showing 4 generators is including the emergency one.
The emergency one and its fuel tank and has to be mounted way up on the ship as well, usually above the rail level.
Intestinal Fortitude
Have Faith
The 6 missing are apparently illegal aliens.
with city jobs ( permits? Social Security numbers?)
with city jobs ( permits? Social Security numbers?)
Macgyver
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Because in the world of jamming big ships into small spots this isn't even a close squeeze.
I was on a cruise in Rome and they spun the ship prior to docking between 2 concrete walls with less than 20' on each end.
That ship did it with no tugs. But there was one hanging around if they needed it.
But cruise ships have way more advanced propulsion including multiple bowel thrusters and aziopods in rear.
SmithJ
Veteran Member
Thats what I was referring to. Not that they routinely need one to make it through, but as a contingency.