EDUC Help! My tax refund was taken to pay my student loan debt

[Sleeping Cobra]

March 10, 2015, 5:00 AM

Many people have already filed their taxes this year -- particularly those owed refunds. Because of rising taxpayer identity theft, it's a smart idea for anyone to file quickly. However, some taxpayers are discovering the refund they thought was coming has instead has been taken to pay their student loan debt. Here's a sample of questions recently sent to Credit.com:

From Amber: Is there anything I can do to stop my whole federal refund from going to my student loans? ... I've just set up a payment plan, but I really need my refund this year.
From Peggy: I was looking forward to my tax refund as it will help with bills and much needed things for the baby. It was accepted and ... now after digging around I found out they are sending it to the U.S. Dept. of Ed. for my student loans which I thought were in deferment. Now this is causing me and my kids a hardship but they refuse to send me the refund... What can I do to get my refund owed to me?
From Luis: I heard that if your student loan is in default and they are intercepting your taxes, it goes towards interest of the loan. Getting your loan out of default you can then get the intercepted (money) back. Is this true? Is there some info on this?

First, some background: If you are in default on your federal student loans (which by definition means you are behind by 270 days or more), the Department of Education can take your tax refund using the Treasury Offset Program. This program authorizes federal payments such as tax refunds or Social Security income to be intercepted in whole or in part to pay debts owed to other federal agencies. There are some limited consumer protections, but debtors aren't always aware of them.

What can you do if your refund was seized?

We spoke with Jay Fleischman, a student loan and bankruptcy attorney, about what people can do. First, he said that by federal law, people who have student loans in default get a notice in advance warning that they are at risk of having any potential tax refund seized for student loan repayment. That notice contains instructions for a review of your loan information and how to avoid the offset.

If your refund is taken, you can still request a hearing. If it was taken in error, the money will be refunded. However, be aware that an error does not generally include not getting a notice; it typically would require that you be able to prove your student loan was not in default. (There is a case where you will likely get a refund; more about that in a moment.)

Fleischman said it's a good idea to adjust your withholdings whether you're subject to a tax refund offset of not. A large tax refund means you overpaid your taxes during the year, he notes. If you are in default on your federal student loans you probably need that money. But at this point, there is nothing you can do to change the overwithholding from last year. Still, revisiting how much you're having withheld for taxes is a smart move for anyone who got a large refund.

The bigger problem is how you are going to deal with the default on your student loans from now on. You'll want to get out of default and stay that way. Fortunately, there are many payment options; you should be able to make one work for you. In some cases, income-based repayment payments can be set as low as $0. And "if your circumstances are dire and expected to remain so," bankruptcy and the discharge of student loans might be options, Fleischman said.

The one case in which you are likely to be able to recover the money is if you filed jointly with a spouse, and it was his or her student loan that was in default. "You may be able to make an injured spouse claim," said Fleischman.

For most, what is done is done. The best thing you can do is to look ahead. And if you haven't filed your tax return and expect a large refund, you may want to see what options you have to get out of default first.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/help-my-tax-refund-was-taken-to-pay-my-student-loan-debt/

 

[mzkitty]

Well....... you HAVE TO repay your student loans. I have a friend who coughs up $200 a month for hers, and she got her whole refund this year. If you don't pay on your student loan debt, of course they're going to get it out of your refund. My friend isn't hurting, but it kills her to have to pay that loan back every month. But she does it anyway. It's called "BUDGETING."

 

[WalknTrot]

Too bad so sad. Pay your bills on time.

The best way to avoid the Feds taking your refund money is to never give it to them in the first place. Keep an eye and updated on your W-4 withholding from your paychecks so they don't get an extra nickel. Better to owe than have them keep and use your money for free every year.

 

[Ben Sunday]

They can do that. Pay your bills or pay the price.

 

[Jeep]

A lot of these former students have degree's that are not useful in the real world. Now they whine and cry because they have to pay their student loans back. Well sunshine, it was a "loan" and that means you have to pay the money back.

 

[Josie]

When will people understand? The "refund" you get isn't a prize you win every year. It's the money taken by the government from your hard earned salary every paycheck. You are allowing them (the government) to use it for a year interest free. Do you think they would allow you the same courtesy? Then they require you to jump through hoops to get it returned. On top of all that, they (the government) cannot even guarantee that they will return it to you, or to some identity thief who will pocket your money.

 

[medic38572]

Now what will really piss you off is when yours is paid and someone else's is not and you file joint and your the only one who paid in and they keep yours!

 

[1eagle]

 

[Bardou]

I think this story is another illustration of people who are educated but lack common sense. They believe they are "entitled" to other people's money. I don't feel sorry for any of them. They took the money, they got their education, and now it's time to pay the piper. It's a LOAN, not a free pay check. The candy man now wants his money. As a taxpayer, I'm sick of footing the bill for low lifes. I'm so glad this is one debt that can't be forgiven.

 

[Zahra]

I wish they'd do away with taxpayer funded or subsidized education grants & loans entirely. I'm serious!

Easy federal money has just given rise to exceptionally bloated tuition costs because the universities feed like greedy pigs at the public feedlot to fund lucrative salaries for administrators, housing for professors, cushy salary levels & perks for tenured staff, wasteful departments like African American Studies, Women's Studies, Urban Studies and an ever growing number of worthless "majors", and huge expenditures on sports programs rather than concentrating on academic excellence in programs with real world relevance.

I know it's facile to say "back in my day", but, nonetheless, back in my day I was able to afford to go to a four year university, live in the dorm & have a good meal plan while working part time for the school & part time at another position tutoring certain foreign students and could do all of this with an academic scholarship plus the income earned from those two very part time jobs on campus - and I had ONE student loan for my first semester just to get me started out in the whopping amount of $1,200 which I paid off in full during the first 6 months after I graduated & started practicing.

Back then (early 80's) I could have attended the state medical school & became a doctor rather than an RN & it would have only cost me $7500 a semester -- but I was horrified by the very thought of incurring that much financial obligation so stuck with nursing. (oh well, not my brightest decision you know?)

My point is that those who were actually highly motivated to earn a degree and were capable of doing it were able to back then. Now, however, our society has gotten so screwed up in the thought processes that it's become expected that every H.S. graduate "needs" to go on to college & earn a degree (apparently any old degree at all), and the US Gov't doles out money hand over fist as fast as they can so every Dick & Jane can give college a try whether they're motivated & academically prepared for it or not!

So, being dependent on the never ending flow of free money from the taxpayers to fill seats, the schools continue to expand to meet the needs of these ill prepared underachievers by hiring staff to teach more & more remedial level classes, more & more "fluff" courses, fund more department chairs for irrelevant "studies" majors, and fulfill their own dream lists of bigger, better facilities & salaries -- all the while letting standards fall in order to justify their "quality" to the Dept of Education by higher graduation rates.

As for these deadbeats who hope that Obama will issue an E.O. forgiving everyone's student loan debts --- get jobs & pay your bills!

 

[rhughe13]

I'm glad I got my high tech degree before rocketing colleges expenses and a failed job market. It was easy to pay along the way while cleaning chicken houses.

 

[greysage]

Local convenience store a short walk from my home has had a sign up for 2 weeks looking for an evening supervisor. Often I've thought I'd try and get a part time job there while I work on self employment as I wouldn't spend time and money commuting. Anyway, I ask why they haven't hired anyone and this high school kid tells me that people are either undesirable, out of work and been on unemployment, or overqualified. Mostly overqualified, "like people that should have a career making a lot of money." This is per what his boss told him. Doubt his boss would have told me that.

 

[TerryK]

Just to back up Zahra's claim about students going to college who shouldn't or who are not prepared:
Many colleges now force those ill prepared students to complete a range of remedial courses before they are allowed to even begin college level courses. Some students spend a good part of their first year in college, getting ready to take college courses.

 

[greysage]

Had lunch with an old friend recently. Her daughter was going to an out of state college. Decided there wasn't enough diversity and it was too preppy. So she transfers back to home state university---where there's really only token diversity that makes liberal types feel good but doesn't really put them in uncomfortable situations.
Her Mom took out a 15K loan at the last minute so daughter can attend university for a year even though she has no idea what she wants to do. Almost told my friend she's nuts but for what---wouldn't have changed anything---just made lunch uncomfortable.

 

[celtic-cat]

There are two problems. First, as you have all pointed out, these persons obviously do not wish to pay back their student loans. They don't just *have* loan balances, they are in default, meaning they either have no ability to pay them or no desire to do so. Second, the suggestion which is always made to increase your deductions so that you do not pay so much in taxes from your paycheck that there is money owing to you at the end of the year and thus you have a refund which can be redirected to pay off various other Federal obligations such as student loans or Ocare subsidies. This only makes sense for those who do not receive the Earned Income Credit. There are millions of people all over the country who receive thousands and thousands of dollars in refunds which they did not pay into the system. This is the "refund" that they are attempting to give to all of those illegals. You can file as many as 5 years back and get this huge credit. A single mom making minimum wage 30 hours a week who has two kids will get around $5,000.00 in EIC that she did not have deducted from her paycheck. She will also get back anything she *did* pay.

So reducing the amount taken from your paycheck will not work for these persons, as they are getting a refund for money that they did not earn and which equals almost half of their annual earnings.

Thinking about it rationally, I don't really understand what the hell they are bitching about. They got a subsidized loan which they defaulted and which is now being paid with money they didn't actually earn or deserve.

 

[Josie]

Just to back up Zahra's claim about students going to college who shouldn't or who are not prepared:
Many colleges now force those ill prepared students to complete a range of remedial courses before they are allowed to even begin college level courses. Some students spend a good part of their first year in college, getting ready to take college courses.

And do you know why they aren't prepared? They are never challenged and are coddled in grade school/high school!

A friend of mine has a grandson that attends a private, Catholic grade school. The boy's mom was doing her monthly duty on the playground one day and two teachers approached her. They ask if she thought her third grade son had too much homework. Mom replies, NO! He spends at the most, maybe 30 minutes doing homework. She then asked, why? The teachers replied that some parents have been complaining that their little snowflakes (my word, not hers or the teachers) have just too much homework in the evenings and they are having a hard time getting it all done! This is in third grade! If they are having problems in third grade and are shielded by mommy and daddy, what's it going to be like in high school and later in college?

Her reasoning is that they, as parents, don't drag him out to every grade school/high school ball game. And right now, he is not participating in any after school activities like other kids maybe are. And when/if he does participate it will be with the understanding that his participation is dependent on him keeping his grades at the same level (mostly A's with one or two B's). It's called priorities and time management. Get some!

 

[Dozdoats]

As the grabblement gets ever deeper in financial trouble, their grasping ways will become more and more abusive.

I paid my student loans off within a few years of graduating...

 

[moldy]

And people wonder why I don't push and push my kids to attend college until they at least have an idea of what they want to do.

 

[Dosadi]

I can't really offer help with what is happening atm, but I'll offer up a couple thoughts that will help you plan better.

1. Never give the govt a free loan. Look at what your tax theft was (the part they did not return, often called by the thieves the owed tax)

2. Go to human resources and change your W4, or just specify that you want zero taxes held out. Then have a auto deposit taken from your pay and put in your bank account for the amount of taxes that you would have had held.

3. You have to decide if leaving it in a interest bearing account, or holding it in person (bank of sealy mattress, post bank, tangibles, etc) is worth the temptation to spend it.

At tax time only send in what they demand if you want them to not kill or cage you. That way there is no refund for them to steal, and no interest free loan to them for a year or so for what they "with hold".

If you want to play by the thieves rules, you just file and pay at the end of the year (apr. 15.) Not one day earlier, just get it post marked and mail it in, no electronic filing. (Makes it harder for them to use computer checks since you did not do the data entry for them. Just another way to be a pain in the ass to the thieves Er taxman)

Now you will hear people tell you that you will spend it, and you won't get that big fat refund, that at best was forced non interest paying savings. By having control of your money you starve the beast until the last second, pay the blood money to the people stealing the fruit of your labor at the last minute. If everyone just changed and did that it would drive em crazy.

You have to be responsible for not spending the money (at least the portion they will insist you must give them on apr 15 each year) But it is somewhat satisfying to at least make them wait.

If you want to really make it hard for them, file on apr 15, but ask for (they give them all the time) an extension to pay the actual money. Extend it out as far as you can. (This was more useful when you could keep it deposited in an interest bearing instrument, not much interest these days without huge risk of total loss.)

Disclaimer, I am not giving financial advice, even when I use the personal pronoun, it is just observations of options open to people under the insane set of rules called the tax code that allows government to steal the fruit of a mans labors. There are any number of supreme court cases where they ruled that income is not wages. Try to tell that to the eye are ess and watch em ruin you.

Oh, and Tax court, It is a special court where the tax people pay the judge and everyone in the room except you and your lawyer. In other words a kangaroo court that isn't going to do more than tell you if you played by their rules. The House always wins, but there are rules they put in place and that if you take time to master them will help you.

Sorry you can't probably get back the money from this year. Perhaps these observations will help with planning your future differently.

Oh, if you feel comfortable with what you will owe the tax man. (Business owners have to file quarterlys so are good at estimating and there is software that will help you know your paycheck to paycheck liability) you could use the extra that would have been a refund each paycheck instead of leaving it until you pay the thieves and the rest is the same as your refund would have been, plus any interest if any earned, but that will depend upon how close you want to watch things. With extensions even if you come up a bit short on Apr 15 you could use the next years money to pay it off. Just don't get caught in a wringer.

YMMV, JMHO

 

[Josie]

It is amazing how a kid's view will change once they actually get out into the working world! LOL...if you want to really push someone's buttons, just mention O's plan for free tuition to my 28 year old son! He worked his butt off in undergrad (summer job and part time with the university), got an academic scholarship and managed to get his degree (B.S. in Biochemistry) in four years without debt. Was it fun? Nope. Did he go on any Spring Break trips? Nope. Did he live in a slum house because the rent was cheap? Yep. Did he buy used books and sell his used? Yep. Did he lose weight and become more lean and mean because he couldn't always afford steak? Yep. Did he really, really appreciate those care packages from mom? You bet he did! But he had some skin in the game and really valued that education.

Then the boy decided to go to grad school. His ideal was to go to Indiana University but being from Illinois, he knew he could not afford the out of state tuition he would be required to pay the first semester. So he chose an instate school he could afford. He got an assistantship and shared an apartment to afford everything. If he thought he worked his hind end off in undergrad, his eyes were quickly opened! He was basically a slave to the department. It was super tough getting all the work required for the job done AND getting the work done for his degree. He figured it out and came to the conclusion that he was not even coming close to minimum wage and his then girlfriend dumped him. There was one year there that this mom was really worried about him doing something permanent and stupid! But once again, he managed to get his masters in BioChem without debt. He's got a job that pays well and a girlfriend of four years. Everything happens for a purpose.

I didn't mean to drag on but he absolutely gets furious when he hears Obozo spout off about GIVING OUT free college educations. He also realizes that it's the working that will be footing the bill for this.

 

[nomifyle]

Never gotten much of a refund, but I paid my school loans back timely and then had to pay ex's back too so he wouldn't default.

Judy

 

[Dennis Olson]

Local convenience store a short walk from my home has had a sign up for 2 weeks looking for an evening supervisor. Often I've thought I'd try and get a part time job there while I work on self employment as I wouldn't spend time and money commuting. Anyway, I ask why they haven't hired anyone and this high school kid tells me that people are either undesirable, out of work and been on unemployment, or overqualified. Mostly overqualified, "like people that should have a career making a lot of money." This is per what his boss told him. Doubt his boss would have told me that.

Do you speak Farsi...?

 

[Sleeping Cobra]

Very true quote.

 

[Hfcomms]

Nobody is forcing the kids to get the loan but a big part of the problem is predatory lending and nobody is watching out for the kids. And lots of times the parents aren't doing their job when the kids go for the loans and educate the kids as to what they are agreeing to. They almost hand out these loans like candy and because the money is easily available the tuition and board rates have been exploding way beyond anything reasonable. From the kid's perspective most people are going to college and it's simply the thing to do and they don't think about the money that has to be paid back as that is four or five years into the future or more and for an 17 year old looking at college 5 years is an eternity.

So I don't feel too sorry for the banks that make these loans anymore than I do to the credit card companies that give credit cards with large lines of credit or the banks that hand out the sub-prime car loans and extend the loans/leases out to 7 years. It's insanity. For a kid today about the only way I would suggest a loan for education is a skilled trade school with about a 100% placement rate or something similar. There is a real lack of machinists now days so that wouldn't be a bad way to go with a great chance of a job. But most of them are queuing up almost worthless degrees and then flipping burgers and living in their parents basement.

 

[Hansa44]

I worked at Purdue University in the late 70's and was surprised to find out that a majority of the students did not want to be there.

They only went because they did not want to have to go to work and because their parents forced them to go to college.

This actually made sense and still does. When a child graduates from highschool many parents threaten their teenagers that if they don't go to college, they will have to go to work. Plus, over the years I've heard parents say that if the student doesn't want to go to college they'll end up working at McDonalds the rest of their life, so of course the kid chooses school. Then the student loans start.

 

[greysage]

Do you speak Farsi...?

Nope---the store is all white and not very bright.

 

[JohnGaltfla]

You vote for a Marxist HNIC,
You GET Marxist HNIC results.

Why is the subject in the story bitching? They get to fund some illegal with TB coming over and spreading the disease to their parents in a hospital or while doing yard work so the life insurance check will be coming soon enough to pay off their student loan.

See?

That's liberal logic for ya.

 

[undead]

Keep in mind that if you have ZERO taxes withheld you run the real risk of garnering penalties for not sibmitting quarterly. It's a slam dunk for Mr. tax man if you ever get an audit.

 

[summerthyme]

Keep in mind that if you have ZERO taxes withheld you run the real risk of garnering penalties for not sibmitting quarterly. It's a slam dunk for Mr. tax man if you ever get an audit.

Well... the point is you should have JUST enough withheld to cover your tax obligations. It's true enough that if you are likely to owe a certain amount, you are supposed to pay a quarterly estimate. Not sure of the amount limits, etc...

Summerthyme

 

[LucyT]

I think this story is another illustration of people who are educated but lack common sense. They believe they are "entitled" to other people's money. I don't feel sorry for any of them. They took the money, they got their education, and now it's time to pay the piper. It's a LOAN, not a free pay check. The candy man now wants his money. As a taxpayer, I'm sick of footing the bill for low lifes. I'm so glad this is one debt that can't be forgiven.

Yep. I don't have a problem with people having to pay back their loans.

 

[Kathy in FL]

Too bad so sad. Pay your bills on time.

The best way to avoid the Feds taking your refund money is to never give it to them in the first place. Keep an eye and updated on your W-4 withholding from your paychecks so they don't get an extra nickel. Better to owe than have them keep and use your money for free every year.

They can do that. Pay your bills or pay the price.

None of our kids will have debt for their undergrad degrees. We set up prepaid college plans and they will use them or they will transfer to the next sibling down. However, it only covers tuition ... not fees, books, etc. Why did we do that when we could have made it easier on them? Because anything worth having is worth working for. And since we won't co-sign for a student loan they can't get out of figuring out real life finances. Nor will we be encumbered by any stupid mistake they might make. Now look, I love my kids and consider all five of them to be pure gold ... but I'm also realistic enough to know that paying their way through life is the surest way to handicap them and prevent them from becoming "real" adults.

So far our oldest who got her master's in Speech Pathology figured out how to pay for her own grad school without loans and she now has her license and making good money. Our next one down will graduate this semester with his BS in health sciences and plans on getting his doctorate in physical therapy. We told him that for his BS degree we will pay off his car but he is an adult and he is going to have to figure out a way to pay for grad school. He has a plan and it doesn't include student loans. The next two daughters down don't plan on grad school but it is early days yet ... one is not even out of highschool yet but is dual enrolling and at barely 16 will already have her first 6 credit hours. By the time she graduates she'll have offset her expenses by almost earning her AS before graduation and will then shortly have her LPN and employable as a way to work and go to school at the same time. Still don't know if the youngest will go to college or technical school but since he is 11 there is time yet.

But above and beyond all of that we've impressed on them all to pay the person you owe because until you do they own a piece of you. If you don't want them to have a piece of you don't borrow money from them. The "them" in the case of student loans is the Fed gov because they above all others have ways to collect that can be painful and embarrassing.

 

[Countrymouse]

I wish they'd do away with taxpayer funded or subsidized education grants & loans entirely. I'm serious!

Easy federal money has just given rise to exceptionally bloated tuition costs because the universities feed like greedy pigs at the public feedlot to fund lucrative salaries for administrators, housing for professors, cushy salary levels & perks for tenured staff, wasteful departments like African American Studies, Women's Studies, Urban Studies and an ever growing number of worthless "majors", and huge expenditures on sports programs rather than concentrating on academic excellence in programs with real world relevance.

I know it's facile to say "back in my day", but, nonetheless, back in my day I was able to afford to go to a four year university, live in the dorm & have a good meal plan while working part time for the school & part time at another position tutoring certain foreign students and could do all of this with an academic scholarship plus the income earned from those two very part time jobs on campus - and I had ONE student loan for my first semester just to get me started out in the whopping amount of $1,200 which I paid off in full during the first 6 months after I graduated & started practicing.

Back then (early 80's) I could have attended the state medical school & became a doctor rather than an RN & it would have only cost me $7500 a semester -- but I was horrified by the very thought of incurring that much financial obligation so stuck with nursing. (oh well, not my brightest decision you know?)

My point is that those who were actually highly motivated to earn a degree and were capable of doing it were able to back then. Now, however, our society has gotten so screwed up in the thought processes that it's become expected that every H.S. graduate "needs" to go on to college & earn a degree (apparently any old degree at all), and the US Gov't doles out money hand over fist as fast as they can so every Dick & Jane can give college a try whether they're motivated & academically prepared for it or not!

So, being dependent on the never ending flow of free money from the taxpayers to fill seats, the schools continue to expand to meet the needs of these ill prepared underachievers by hiring staff to teach more & more remedial level classes, more & more "fluff" courses, fund more department chairs for irrelevant "studies" majors, and fulfill their own dream lists of bigger, better facilities & salaries -- all the while letting standards fall in order to justify their "quality" to the Dept of Education by higher graduation rates.

As for these deadbeats who hope that Obama will issue an E.O. forgiving everyone's student loan debts --- get jobs & pay your bills!

I agree with everything you said, but just want to say in regard to this:

Now, however, our society has gotten so screwed up in the thought processes that it's become expected that every H.S. graduate "needs" to go on to college & earn a degree (apparently any old degree at all)...


...that it's ALSO become more common that EMPLOYERS WON'T GIVE YOU A SECOND LOOK if you don't have "some" sort of "alphabet letters" behind your name.


Having your knowledge from being self-taught, or apprenticed, or even from YEARS OF EXPERIENCE no longer matters. The only thing the millennials behind the hiring desk know is that you MUST have a "degree" or you can't POSSIBLY be "qualified" to do what you do.

My husband had what was considered, in the late 70's, the "full" program of training necessary for his chosen career of drafting. He went through the Drafting diploma program at a local technical college, and was told that to go on to get an Associate's was "over-kill", much less a Bachelor's or anything higher. He worked at Scientific Atlanta for 12 years, then moved on to other drafting positions in other companies. It wasn't until the 90's that--suddenly---when layoffs would come, he was first in line---because he had no "degree." It didn't matter that he had twice or three times the knowledge of the clueless college graduates the company had more recently hired---the ones who were always coming to my husband to ask how to do the tasks they were given to do---because he, with his training and experience, KNEW how, and they, with their degree on the wall, did NOT. The company HR office wasn't interested in that. They had decided that "efficiency" meant "degree", and in their desire to be "efficient" they were laying off the employees who actually KNEW how to fulfill the jobs the company wanted done, but that didn't matter.

My hubby had to go back to college to get the "degree", and so when he was laid off during the 90's he did so (and this is one case where the Unemployment checks were used PROPERLY, for they paid for his college). He took a FEW courses that taught him things in his field he didn't already know--a very few, like courses on the latest 3-D CAD systems---but MOST of the "required" courses were nothing but busy-work to make money for the college---courses like history, English, and one in Physical Science that had nothing to do with the physics of the type of work my husband did. (And remember he had ALREADY taken all these basic courses the FIRST TIME AROUND when he was in the Community College/ Technical College program in the 1970's.) But he slogged through it, did well, and graduated----all to get his "foot in the door" again to secure---and KEEP---a good job.

It's ridiculous that our society has such blinders on that we only look at how things look "on paper"---and the almighty "Baccalaureate Diploma" on a college-prep, AP, "world-class" curriculum is ALL that matters in high schools (while the good old "Vocational" track has gone the way of cursive writing), and only a "COLLEGE DEGREE" is a ticket to open the door to a job.

It's insane....but I know of no way around it.

Very few companies--or people---allow you to "prove yourself" anymore, without the "certification" of that "college degree" in EVERY field. (not talking, of course, of the Professions like medicine and law, where it is required)

 

[TerryK]

Keep in mind that if you have ZERO taxes withheld you run the real risk of garnering penalties for not sibmitting quarterly. It's a slam dunk for Mr. tax man if you ever get an audit.

I was going to tell Dosadi this since it is obvious he hadn't even considered that.

Also, it's not just if you had zero taxes withheld, even if you didn't have enough withheld so that you owe the government, you may be in for penalties, depending on your previous year.