[gov] how many non-filers are there?

stillprepping

Membership Revoked
recent gov reports indicate that the # of non-filers has increased more than 3x the number of new filers! and from the memo below, there were over 10 million non-filers in 98.

thats TEN MILLION!!!

to all the 'cowards' out there .. afraid to not file because of whatever .. ya got probably 15 million other people not filing today.

pretty interesting numbers.


Department of the Treasury
Internal Revenue Service
Publication 2025 (Rev.1-98)
Catalog Number 23902B
http://www.irs.ustreas.gov

Current estimates indicate that
more than 10 million Americans
may not file tax returns,
or they file only when they expect to
receive a refund. The IRS diligently
pursues these individuals in hopes of
changing their behavior and reducing
the burden on taxpayers who do file.

A major focus of the IRS has been to
concentrate on ways of improving tax
compliance. We estimate that the
current overall compliance rate is
about 83 percent. When you consider
that 17 percent of the tax dollars due
each year are not collected — $119-
170 billion in annual revenue — you
begin to realize that an 83 percent
compliance rate is not acceptable.

The IRS’ goal is to raise the compliance
level to 90 percent by the year
2001. To reach that goal, the IRS
plans to use the latest methods combined
with old-fashioned direct
contact with taxpayers. Some of the
methods the IRS uses include market segment
specialization, extensive,
interconnected databases which help
the IRS build cases; designated
nonfiler assistance days; and improved
substitute for return and refund hold
programs.

Reminder: The authority to prepare Form
1040 is under Internal Revenue Code
6020(b) and Internal Revenue Code 6212
gives the Collection Division the authority
to issue a Statutory Notice of Deficiency.
 

Conrad Nimikos

Who is Henry Bowman
Does this mean they are going to continue putting people in jail and taking their assets until we all do as they order? (Legal or not) Does this mean they will continue to audit right wing groups and stay away from J. Jackson? Does this mean they will continue to audit more middle class people and not audit large corps like the ones that have admitted cooking their books?
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
Wierd article

Right now I am told, only 52% of the working populace has to pay Fed INCOME tax. (They still pay SS)

SO, is this 17% to be deducted from the 52% who are supposed to pay?

Article doesn't say, but implies that it does when it talks about lost revenue.

Or in other words, a good solid 30%+ of the people who are actually supposed to pay taxes are not paying.

Hmmm! According to what I have read on this forum, if 30% of the people were refusing to pay taxes, the system would crash. So maybe that is why we got the deficit.

And finally, I bet the ones they are chasing get most, if not all, their income in cash. I wonder how they will find them.
 

MaxTheKnife

Membership Revoked
You might get a better or at least more accurate response with a poll stillprepping. That's a loaded question in the clear.
 

Senses On

Inactive
That's not an “article” troke—it's .gov info right off the IRS web site.

Funny how they don't even mention JBTs, courts, property confiscation or anything like that.

The way the blurb is written it sounds like they are hopeful more people will volunteer to pay taxes. :D
 

old bear

Deceased
I guess we fall into the "coward" category. We don't like to pay taxes any more than the next guy, and if there was any other way, we wouldn't give Uncle Sam another nickle to waste. BUT, if you work at a "traditional" job, where they take out taxes, SS, Medicare, etc., and you do not file, they will find you, they will attach your paychecks, they will take your land and they will put you in jail. I for one, fell like we can better serve our family if we are not tucked away in jail somewhere making a "statement". We do all we can in terms of taking deductions, and are trying to do even more. Maybe someday soon, our farm will pay off and we can leave the "traditional" jobs and use the farm as one big tax writeoff. In the meantime, we cowards will continue to be cowards and "render unto Caesar, what is Caesars".
 

SmartAZ

Membership Revoked
IRS blurbs are always written with the assumption that everybody owes a tax and all non-filers are illegal non-filers. But the fact is no citizen owes a tax until he VOLUNTEERS to owe a tax. That's why they keep calling it "voluntary compliance".

The internal revenue code never says that anybody is liable for the income tax. It only speaks of the "taxpayer", which only applies to a person who has volunteered to pay the tax.

So if you don't file, you don't owe the tax, and you are not required to file anything for a tax you don't owe.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
And it is a matter of public record that no non-filer has ever gone into the slammer?

Gee
 
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John Free

Inactive
My dentist is in the slammer for tax evasion.....

Also individual states have enforcement programs that are usually superior to the feds.....so when the state catches you for non-filing they report you to the Feds.

I always pay my taxes......why?

To make up for those rebellious flakes who would bitch if they were hung with a new rope.....frankly I happen to be proud of democracy and the US has a substantually lower tax burden than europe on the average. There is a price to pay for government.

You and I are a part of that Government....we elect those politicians that everyone disagrees with....go ahead and find a better system....and once you have found it.....move there and shut up!!!!

Hello?


John
 

Onebyone

Inactive
What the hey about 24% of those people who do not file are unemployed so not earning an income. If you don't earn any income you don't have to file as there is no tax to pay. :rolleyes:

That means they are already at 90% compliance of those who have to file right?
 

theoutlands

Official Resister
John Free, that's essentially the same conclusion I came to myself a couple of years ago. Plus, it doesn't hurt that we always get ours refunded every year... ;)

Now, if I were working for myself and got paid in cash, it might just be another story allllll together. We'll see...
 
Stillprepping said:

to all the 'cowards' out there .. afraid to not file because of whatever .. ya got probably 15 million other people not filing today.


So I guess that means you are one of the "brave" ones who doesn't file income tax returns?
 

Flint

Inactive
For those who claim the income tax is voluntary, here are some legal decisions to bear in mind. Some of these decisions sound very much like someone has been studying the "book of Schultz" here...

This material isn't all that hard to understand, unless your determination NOT to understand it is quite overpowering.

This is from <a href="http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html">the usual site</a>

------------------------
<blockquote>

<b> Claim: The income tax is voluntary.</b>

This is a corruption of statements made by the IRS, the courts, and Congress to encourage taxpayer compliance with the tax laws, without the need for legal action against taxpayers.

A quotation frequently taken out of context by tax protesters is the following by the U.S. Supreme Court:

<blockquote>
"Our tax system is based upon voluntary assessment and payment and not upon distraint." Flora v. United States, 362 U.S. 145, 175.
</blockquote>

This quotation is out of context, because the court first noted that the government could collect the tax by exercising its power of distraint, "but we cannot believe that completing resort to this extraordinary procedure is either wise or in accord with congressional intent." 362 U.S. at 175. In other words, Congress can collect taxes by force, but the court believed that Congress intended to give taxpayers an opportunity to comply before exercising that force.

This is better explained in Helvering v. Mitchell, 303 U.S. 391, 399 (1938), (which was cited in the Flora decision), as follows:

<blockquote>
"In assessing income taxes, the Government relies primarily upon the disclosure by the taxpayer of the relevant facts. This disclosure it requires him to make in his annual return. To ensure full and honest disclosure, to discourage fraudulent attempts to evade the tax, Congress imposes sanctions. Such sanctions may confessedly be either criminal or civil."
</blockquote>
See also, Ginter v. Southern, 611 F.2d 1226, 1229 & n.2 (8th Cir. 1979), cert. den., 446 U.S. 967 (1980); Funk v. Commissioner, 687 F.2d 264, 265 (8th Cir. 1982). When confronted by claims that income taxes are "voluntary," courts readily explain that the payment of income tax is mandatory, not optional:

<blockquote>
"Appellants' claim that payment of federal income tax is voluntary clearly lacks substance. See Newman v. Schiff, 778 F.2d 460, 467 (8th Cir. 1985)." United States v. Gerads, 999 F.2d 1255 (8th Cir. 1993).

"The payment of income taxes is not optional ... and the average citizen knows that payment of income taxes is legally required." Schiff v. United States, 919 F.2d 830, 834 (2nd Cir. 1990).

"As the cited cases, as well as many others, have made abundantly clear, the following arguments alluded to by the Lonsdales are completely lacking in legal merit and patently frivolous: ... (6) the income tax is voluntary... " Lonsdale v. United States, 919 F.2d 1440, 1448 (10th Cir. 1990).

"Any assertion that the payment of income taxes is voluntary is without merit. It is without question that the payment of income taxes is not voluntary. United States v. Gerads, 999 F.2d 1255, 1256 (8th Cir. 1993), (per curiam); Wilcox v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, 848 F.2d 1007, 1008 (9th Cir. 1988). The assertion that the filing of an income tax return is voluntary is, likewise, frivolous. Title 26, United States Code, Section 6012(a)(1)(A), 'requires that every individual who earns a threshold level of income must file a tax return.' United States v. Pottorf, 769 F.Supp. 1176, 1183 (D.Kan. 1991). Failure to file an income tax return subjects an individual to criminal penalty. Id., (citing 26 U.S.C. § 7203)." United States v. Hartman, 915 F.Supp. 1227 (M.D.Fla. 1996).

"Based on his belief that the income tax system is based on voluntary compliance, Beresford wrote the IRS to explain that he had voluntarily chosen not to comply and would not be paying overdue income taxes for 1987, 1988, and 1989. The IRS issued a federal tax lien against him, which it satisfied by withholding $14,609.97 from the sale of Beresford's house in October 1999. Beresford seeks to recover that sum plus interest and costs. He also seeks a permanent injunction 'forbidding defendant from contacting him against his wishes and from directly or indirectly interfering in any other aspect of his life.' Complaint at 11. ... Beresford's primary contention, however, that the federal income tax system is based on voluntary compliance, has been held to be 'completely lacking in legal merit and patently frivolous.' Lonsdale v. United States, 919 F.2d 1440, 1448 (10th Cir. 1990); Wilcox v. Commissioner of the Internal Revenue, 848 F.2d 1007, 1008 (9th Cir. 1988)." Steven M. Beresford v. IRS, et al., 86 AFTR2d Par. 2000-5200, No. 00-293-KI (July 13, 2000).

"The federal income tax is not voluntary, and a person may not elect to opt out of the federal tax laws by a unilateral act of revocation and recission. See, e.g., Lesoon v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, 141 F.3d 1185, 1998 WL 166114 (10th Cir. 1998); United States v. Gerads, 999 F.2d 1255, 1256 (8th Cir. 1993); Damron v. Yellow Freight System, Inc., 18 F. Supp. 2d 812, 819-20 (E.D. Tenn. 1998), aff'd, 188 F.3d 506 (6th Cir. 1999)." United States v. John L. Sasscer, 86 AFTR2d Par. 2000-5317, No. Y-97-3026 (D.C. Md. 9/25/2000), (footnote omitted).
</blockquote>

A similar claim is that a federal income tax return is a form of contract, and is therefore voluntary, or invalid if entered into under duress. This claim is also uniformly rejected:

<blockquote>
"The notion that the federal income tax is contractual or otherwise consensual in nature is not only utterly without foundation by, despite McLaughlin's protestations to the contrary, has been repeatedly rejected by the courts." McLaughlin v. United States, 832 F2d 986 (7th Cir. 1987).

"Drefke argues that taxes are debts which can only be imposed voluntarily when individuals contract with the government for services and that those who choose to enter such contracts do so by signing 1040 and W-4 forms. By refusing to sign those forms, Drefke argues that he is 'immune' from the Internal Revenue Service's jurisdiction as a 'nontaxpayer.' "This is an imaginative argument, but totally without arguable merit. 26 U.S.C. § 1 imposes upon 'every' individual a certain rate of income tax depending on their amount of taxable income. 26 U.S.C. § 6012 states that unmarried individuals having a gross income in excess of $4,300, and married individuals entitled to make joint returns having a gross income in excess of $5,400 'shall' file tax returns for the taxable year. Considering Drefke's gross income for 1979 and 1980, he was clearly required to file tax returns for those years.
"26 U.S.C. § 6151 states that when a tax return is required to be filed, the person so required 'shall' pay such taxes to the internal revenue officer with whom the return is filed at the fixed time and place. The sections of the Internal Revenue Code imposed a duty on Drefke to file tax returns and pay the appropriate rate of income tax, a duty which he chose to ignore." United States v. Drefke, 707 F.2d 978, 981 (8th Cir. 1983), cert. den., sub nom., Jameson v. United States, 464 U.S. 942 (1983).

"Upon review of May's amended peition, we find no allegations of fact which could give rise to a valid claim; rather, the complaint merely contains conclusory assertions attacking the constitutionality of the Internal Revenue Code and its application to the taxpayer.[Footnote omitted.] Tax protest cases like this one raise no genuine controversy; the underlying legal issues have long been settled. See, e.g., Abrams, 82 T.C. at 406-07 (citing cases rejecting similar arguments). Because May's petition raised no justiciable claims, the Tax Court properly dismissed the petition for failure to state a claim." May v. C.I.R., 752 F.2d 1301, 1302 (8th Cir. 1985), (among other things, May's amended complaint alleged that "The filing of an 'imcome' [sic] tax return is 'VOLUNTARY' and penalties can not be instituted against a voluntary act since to do so would make the act 'mandatory.'" 752 F.2d at 1304, note 3).

"His [Harris's] claims that the payment of federal income taxes is voluntary, and that the IRS fraudulently induced him to pay his taxes by withholding that fact, are clearly without merit. See United States v. Raymond, 228 F.3d 804, 812 (7th Cir. 2000); Hyslep v. United States, 765 F.2d 1083, 1084 (11th Cir. 1985); Funk v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, 687 F.2d 264, 265 (8th Cir. 1982)."
Harris v. Irene Kinahan, et al., 87 AFTR2d Par. 2001-984, No. 00-5258 (3rd Cir. 18 May 2001).

</blockquote>
</blockquote>

-------------------------------------

So there you have it. The claim that payment is voluntary is either a deliberate lie, incredibly stupid, or both.
 

stillprepping

Membership Revoked
"I always pay my taxes......why?"

because you never even bothered to read the irs' code of federal regulations.

because IF YOU DID .. you'd learn than 99% of americans OWE NOTHING. our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves at all the people 'voluntarily' giving their money away.

please correct me if i'm wrong - but i can almost guarantee that you - and most others on this forum - HAVE NOT EVER READ/STUDIED THE CFR.


"I happen to be proud of democracy .. "

and where do you live, sir? because if you think you're living in one ... i got a bridge to sell ya.

its rather simple. i pay what i owe. if i dont owe anything, i dont pay.
 
Stillprepping said:

its rather simple. i pay what i owe. if i dont owe anything, i dont pay.

But do you file a tax return?

You chose to insult those who do file a tax return, so I think it behooves you to answer the question.
 

SnowMom

Membership Revoked
I, for one, am usually quite satisfied to file. Between the child tax credits, medical expense deduction, and mortgage interest deduction, we usually get back a nice chunk of change every year. Of course, I do know they helped themselves to more than they deserved in the first place...
 

Flint

Inactive
SnowMom:

You may wish to rethink your tax strategy. If you get a goodly chunk back each year, it means the government withheld too much, or at least more than they should have according to current tax rates and regulations.

This, in turn, means they and not you got the use of YOUR money during that year. And trust me, if they take too much and have to return it later, they do NOT pay you the interest you lost by not having it to invest for yourself.

Also, you will notice that they will NOT let it work in your favor. THEY can withhold much too much and that's fine, but YOU cannot underpay all year and then cough up a bundle on April 15th. They will get you for this. At best (for you), you'll be very near break-even come tax time.
 

Gr8DaneDood

Membership Revoked
*snip*
it means the government withheld too much
*snip*

Uh, not trying to split hairs here, but do you maybe mean she needs to adjust her withholding? (Assuming Snowmom fills out a w-4 to determine her employer's withholding "allowance". )
 

SnowMom

Membership Revoked
I know what you're saying here Flint. We are a family of 5 and are already taking 6 deductions. Our insurance is such a disaster that we were $7,000 out of pocket last year. And the interest portion of our mortgage came to $8,500 last year. The child tax credits, although predictable, might not justify taking yet another deduction so it is difficult to know what to do. We could pay for tax advice, but are not big savers so the interest is not a wealth building stategy we can fully utilise. Thanks for the suggestion though!
 

stillprepping

Membership Revoked
big,
"You chose to insult those who do file a tax return .."

no insult intended. did u notice that 'cowards' was in quotes?

'cowards' was in reference to a previous poster who said she was a 'coward' and i was merely paroting her statement.

and confidential information of mine shall remain confidential.
 

Kris Gandillon

The Other Curmudgeon
_______________
SnowMom:

"We are a family of 5 and are already taking 6 deductions."

The ACTUAL number in your family and the number of deductions you can claim is somewhat UNRELATED.

LOT'S of people with 1-2-3 kids take 8-9-10-12 deductions due to special circumstances in their situations. These would include large mortgage interest deductions, church tithers, and anyone else with other substantial deductions.

The "deduction" number used on your W-4 is just a mathematically convenient way to calculate withholding the correct amount of money as Flint explained. There is actually a worksheet on the back of a W-4 that helps you figure out the correct number of deductions that you should be claiming. Don't let them keep too much or too little of your money during the year.

Claiming a "large" number of deductions does NOT raise any eyebrows or concerns at the IRS as long as the amount actually owed on April 15th comes out about right.

Kris
 

Gr8DaneDood

Membership Revoked
LOT'S of people with 1-2-3 kids take 8-9-10-12 deductions due to special circumstances in their situations.

A word of caution here: Anything over 9, IIRC is a "red flag", and you darn well better have documentation to support such a claim.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
Tithing attacts their eye too. Give 10% of your gross income and they will come around to ask.
 
I'm the coward that stillprepping was referring to. Yes, it was a self-applied term.
I had mentioned that I was afraid of the power if the IRS and was unwilling to give up everything for principle. I also indicated that I was ashamed of myself.
Stillprepping was not calling all of you cowards, but simply referring back to what I had said.
 

Flint

Inactive
Lady:

Can you explain what principle you're referring to? Are you saying that governments should not tax the people in order to provide services? In that case, how should they raise the necessary revenue? By printing funny money? By borrowing and never paying back?

Or is this the principle that everyone else should be taxed so that I can enjoy the fruits of their labor while failing to pay my share? Most people outgrow that principle by at least age 3.

I'm really curious. I personally believe government is much too large, and should be raising and spending no more than about 10% of what they're now doing. But I also believe the solution lies in changing the law rather than in breaking it.
 

SnowMom

Membership Revoked
Kris-
Thanks for mentioning that. I thought that possibly taking more deductions might result in our OWING money (well, I know it could if we were greedy). We will have to sit down and try to figure this out. I'm a mess with math, but hubby might be able to crack it. Might ease the squeeze we're in right now!
 
snip "By printing funny money? By borrowing and never paying back?"
:lol:
Answer to question one: Yes this is exactly what the Federal Reserve has been up to for nearly a century, which is how and why the people's gold has been stolen, their wealth transferred, and their Republic bankrupted.

Answer to question two: Yes this is exactly how the United States Government keeps its books, with 7 trilliion on book debt and another 15+ trillion in off book debt that could not be repaid if we sold every national asset to some imaginary highest bidder. This is social engineering, and not funding. Your voluntary contribution funds the World Communist Movement through the Bank and the Fund (IMF/UN), NOT "your government". The 1.3 billion or whatever funded the fed.gov today was created at the tap electronically this morning and LOANED into existence, goldilocks. Earth to Moon..

You have to figure out which sack you want to eat out of, and exactly who is holding the sack. If that doesn't matter to you, read no further.

The private Citizen has a right to work, and the right to enjoy the fruits of his property being his labor, without let or leave under the U.S. Constitution 5th Amendment. This is not a privilege granted by the government. In this country Rights precede government or the establishment of states, which is an ancient maxim of Law. Rights are acknowledged above Government or they cease to become Rights and become privileges authorized by the State. There is, however, no right to government employment, nor is there a constitutional right to statutory privileged employment benefits without complying with the regulations of government employment.

Under the definition of "employee" and "self-employed" pursuant to the tax code, employees of the governments and officers of government corporations are defined. These listed statutorily created entities are privileged, and as such enjoy limited liability, qualified immunity, government paid unemployment, workers compensation, protected employment, and many other paid benefits.

Short version: You want Marxism: wefah checks, social insecurity, guvmint contracts, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance guvmint to take care of you, OR guvmint jobs, the parasite should pay the host.
You want to be free you best get and stay self-reliant.

It is a little discouraging when you are dealing with criminals in power, though. If you are just another skin flint forget it. You will need to be acting out of moral conviction. It is unfortunately most difficult to prosecute the criminal activity at that particular level, for they pay (buy) the corrupted judiciary and the politicians from the purse they hold, so have become a law unto themselves.

Still, if you want to search the 1995 GAO report, you will find hard evidence of something on the order of 480,000 felonies committed by the IRS in deliberate fraudulent reclassification of private independent contractors (the ones that don't have or take any of the perks like working for the government, limited liability, immunity from suit, unemployment, workers compensation, etc.) by changing their master files to reflect that they are now considered as "self employed" or "employees" (privileged government employees pursuant to the convoluted code). That's felony extortion under 18 USCS § 872 (and more), but we have become a nation of moral cowards who love temporary security and comfort more than liberty, I reckon, so go back to sleep, folks, until you hear the sound of the trap closing on you and your loved ones. Eat your soma now and go to sleep. Nice sheople...

Founder George Mason:
“You cannot order us to disobey him from whose judgment you cannot protect us.”

Revelation 13:17:
“...That no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the NUMBER of his name.” Revelation 19:20: “...Them that had received the mark of the beast ... were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.”

I Corinthians 10:21, “Ye cannot drink of the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils.”

And no, I distinctly did not state that the Social Insecurity Number is the Mark of The Beast; simply the social engineering, identification and tracking scheme which will make possible the rapid implementation of such a mark. Still the parallels are uncanny. Try buying and selling without one if you doubt me.
Wakey wakey.
oh yea, the title question - never get your stats from government. More like 35-40 million of the total population.

Tras
_____________
"But the COWARDLY, and the unbelieving, and the abomiinable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death." Revelation 21:8
 
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Just when I thought for once, I agree with Flint, Tras comes up with a teriffic reply. Thanks for your post, Tras.....you make a lot of sense! Right on!
 

stillprepping

Membership Revoked
tras,
"the COWARDLY .. shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone ."

i think everyone must give this a LOT more thought. pay now, burn later?
 
Always a pleasure, Michiana. Blessings.

Naw, SP, they don't have to think about anything. They are into creating their own alternative realities these days, remember? Might maybe knash their teeth a minute shifting realities though, huh? The problem with warning the poor suckers is that they then become truly responsible for the outcome. Still, I will not have their blood on my hands..

:shk:

Tras
 

ALF

Membership Revoked
The point here really is that taxes are perfectly lawful, but not againt private individual citizens. Taxes on businesses and corps. are perfectly alright. This is an indirect tax. Taxes on imports and exports are also lawful. These costs are passed on to the consumer via price increases. Consumers can then choose to raise their own food and do without things that are beyond their means to avoid taxes. This is a little dated as we all more or less have to buy thing like cars and other manufactured goods that are made by companies that are taxable.

Fuel taxes for the roads is a good example of a tax for a particular purpose. These taxes should pay for construction and maintainance as well as things like snow plowing. There should be no other tax money spent on the roads. One of hte travisties is property taxs for roads which just got the approval of the voters in my area yet again. It was a renewal.
 
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