PLAY SHOGUN ummmMORU arigato!

J

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
I'm watching the new version of Shogun on Hulu. So far it's very good. It's like the grown up version compared to the old Richard Chamberlain version in the same way the updated BattleStar Galactica compared to the early TV children's version, made for grownups. I did the first two episodes and will watch the third sometime this week.

I read the book eon's ago; that was also very good. James Clavell had a knack.

He wrote and directed The Last Valley with Michael Caine, which was on YT last fall. Most EXCELLENT movie on the 30 Years War, also starring Omar Sheriff and others. Caine thought it was the best thing he has ever done and was very disappointed that it got very little play and coverage. He is very good in it, and his accent was much better than in The Eagle Has Landed.

Just a head's up for those interested.
 
S

Slydersan

Veteran Member
I watched the first two episodes on FX channel. So far so good. I vaguely remember the original TV mini-series from when I was a kid. I keep waiting for some moment of wokeness to ruin it like everything else, but so far none of that.
 
R

Ragnar

Senior Member
Slydersan said:
I watched the first two episodes on FX channel. So far so good. I vaguely remember the original TV mini-series from when I was a kid. I keep waiting for some moment of wokeness to ruin it like everything else, but so far none of that.
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I remember my parents watching it and that was about it… first 2 episodes were good..
 
CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Slydersan said:
I vaguely remember the original TV mini-series from when I was a kid.
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Youngster!

I remember Chamberlain killing a Pheasant and hanging it outside his hut to "season", one of his servants took it down after a day or two, cuz it was like nasty, and lost his head for it.

When you forget history you are doomed to repeat it.

The lesson here is don't loose your head over a guy who can't cook. I lost mine over a pretty girl who can. That's ok.
 
Melodi

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I liked the original series and watched it with a couple of Japanese friends, which was entertaining. It stayed pretty true to the book, though it did leave some things out (they have to pick and choose) and changed some things that would work better on screen and would be much harder to pull off.

My Japanese housemate then said, "In old days women were allowed to be more free, but now much marry first. However, once married, WE ENJOY!"
 
Grumphau

Grumphau

Veteran Member
Melodi said:
I liked the original series and watched it with a couple of Japanese friends, which was entertaining. It stayed pretty true to the book, though it did leave some things out (they have to pick and choose) and changed some things that would work better on screen and would be much harder to pull off.

My Japanese housemate then said, "In old days women were allowed to be more free, but now much marry first. However, once married, WE ENJOY!"
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The original had Toshiro Mifune so it will always be superior in that way.

I saw this series come up and DW even pointed it out to me. We were looking forward to seeing it. The reviews here make me even more interested.
 
kemosabe

kemosabe

Doooooooooom !
Johnny Twoguns said:
I'm watching the new version of Shogun on Hulu. So far it's very good. It's like the grown up version compared to the old Richard Chamberlain version in the same way the updated BattleStar Galactica compared to the early TV children's version, made for grownups. I did the first two episodes and will watch the third sometime this week.

I read the book eon's ago; that was also very good. James Clavell had a knack.

He wrote and directed The Last Valley with Michael Caine, which was on YT last fall. Most EXCELLENT movie on the 30 Years War, also starring Omar Sheriff and others. Caine thought it was the best thing he has ever done and was very disappointed that it got very little play and coverage. He is very good in it, and his accent was much better than in The Eagle Has Landed.

Just a head's up for those interested.
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I tell ya , one of the best shows I have seen in awhile set in late between 1880's and 1890's called "WARRIOR"
They only made 3 seasons , it was a Cinemax original series, then they stopped doing original series on their platform.. so Netflix bought the rights, and if it does well they may continue on with a 4th season on ..
But yea its set in late 1800s about a guy coming over from china to find his sister, and dealing with being fresh off the boat in Chinatown San Fransisco with everything that went on back in those times... GREAT GREAT series .. I highly recommend....
It's on Netflix
 
wait-n-see

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
I do like both versions of Shogun, with the competing atmospheres presented by the different versions being a nice contrast. , However, both versions do take liberties with the story presented by the novel, with the new one taking some liberties that, while are interesting potential story plot points, for me do point to possible troubling altercations showing up in the forth coming episodes.

However, to get the true sense of Shogun, one must read the novel. It is a masterpiece of story telling that no series can even come close too.
 
J

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
wait-n-see said:
I do like both versions of Shogun, with the competing atmospheres presented by the different versions being a nice contrast. , However, both versions do take liberties with the story presented by the novel, with the new one taking some liberties that, while are interesting potential story plot points, for me do point to possible troubling altercations showing up in the forth coming episodes.

However, to get the true sense of Shogun, one must read the novel. It is a masterpiece of story telling that no series can even come close too.
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I read the book long long ago before the Mini series with Chamberlain. Don't think I'm going to slog through it again; but it was very good.
 
J

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
"IT IS WAR!"
Well, that kicked things off. Still love the details, like the messenger running through the village with the msg box on a stick over the shoulder.
 
wait-n-see

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
wait-n-see said:
I do like both versions of Shogun, with the competing atmospheres presented by the different versions being a nice contrast. , However, both versions do take liberties with the story presented by the novel, with the new one taking some liberties that, while are interesting potential story plot points, for me do point to possible troubling altercations showing up in the forth coming episodes.

However, to get the true sense of Shogun, one must read the novel. It is a masterpiece of story telling that no series can even come close too.
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Well, it looks like episode 4 fully went off the tracks so much that for me, and IMO, it is not even trying to be a slightly faithful retelling of the novel, like the original Shogun series from the 70s was.

I won't say the issues I have with this version since the first episode, but there are so many after episode 4 that I have no desire to complete the series. I've read the novel fully 4 times through, and bought and watched the original series at least 5 full times. The new series is just too much of a change from the novel for me.

In this instance, back to the 70s for me now! ;)
 
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J

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
wait-n-see said:
Well, it looks like episode 4 fully went off the tracks so much that for me, and IMO, it is not even trying to be a slightly faithful retelling of the novel, like the original Shogun series from the 70s was.

I won't say the issues I have with this version since the first episode, but there are so many after episode 4 that I have no desire to complete the series. I've read the novel fully 4 times through, and bought and watched the original series at least 5 full times. The new series is just too much of a change from the novel for me.

In this instance, back to the 70s for me now! ;)
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Ah well, there is about 40 years that separates the book and the first series from this new time, so I'll continue to enjoy it until it fails me or I finish it. I am not a purist, and every artist has the right to their own vision (as long as it don't suck, lol). I had great and widely adventurous yesterdays; but I'm not still stuck there (well, some things, yes).
 
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J

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
At the start of this I mentioned The Last Valley, written and directed by James Clavell. It is an EXCELLENT movie with Omar Sharif and Michael Caine; about the 30 Years War.

Catholics, Protestants, witches, even some atheists! Something for everyone!

"All over Germany there is famine, plague, pestilence even now, and winter is coming. In ten, twenty years have you ever seen a richer valley?"

YT, running time 2:05. A great movie if you are into history and good acting.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_VdfAjAuds
 
wait-n-see

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
Johnny Twoguns said:
At the start of this I mentioned The Last Valley, written and directed by James Clavell. It is an EXCELLENT movie with Omar Sharif and Michael Caine; about the 30 Years War.

Catholics, Protestants, witches, even some atheists! Something for everyone!

"All over Germany there is famine, plague, pestilence even now, and winter is coming. In ten, twenty years have you ever seen a richer valley?"

YT, running time 2:05. A great movie if you are into history and good acting.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_VdfAjAuds
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100% agreement with this movie. Fell for it the first time I saw it on TV back in the early 80s. Scenes like the battle at the last of the movie with the young boy on the stack of bodies calling for the Captain, or when the Captain revels where he stands on the question of religion and the war between the Catholics and Protectants, are just a little taste of the well written script and action in this movie.

Like Shogun, I have the seen the movie numerous times before and after buying the DVD, which can still be bought on Amazon.

Never read the book, and was tempted to buy an old copy on Amazon with a price $250. However, I decided against that as I had read reviews by others who had read the book and said the movie had not followed the novel and was quite different with the movie being better. I liked the movie version too much to tempt fate so I decided to stay with Caine and Sharif. :)
 
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wait-n-see

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
Johnny Twoguns said:
Ah well, there is about 40 years that separates the book and the first series from this new time, so I'll continue to enjoy it until it fails me or I finish it. I am not a purist, and every artist has the right to their own vision (as long as it don't suck, lol). I had great and widely adventurous yesterdays; but I'm not still stuck there (well, some things, yes).
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Complete agreement here. It is still an enjoyable show to watch, even more so for those who did not come this way by reading the novel first. Excellent cinematography, good acting, and not a bad story when one can pretend there is no connection to the novel Shogun.

I may even watch it in the future on a slow day over looking the connection it tried to make with the novel Shogun. But for now, I consider the original to be too much of a masterpiece for it to be mangled this badly when they had the time and support to "keep the faith" if they had really wanted too.
 
J

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
wait-n-see said:
100% agreement with this movie. Fell for it the first time I saw it on TV back in the early 80s. Scenes like the battle at the last of the movie with the young boy on the stack of bodies calling for the Captain, or when the Captain revels where he stands on the question of religion and the war between the Catholics and Protectants, are just a little taste of the well written script and action in this movie.

Like Shogun, I have the seen the movie numerous times before and after buying the DVD, which can still be bought on Amazon.

Never read the book, and was tempted to buy an old copy on Amazon with a price $250. However, I decided against that as I had read reviews by others who had read the book and said the movie had not followed the novel and was quite different with the movie being better. I liked the movie version too much to tempt fate so I decided to stay with Caine and Sharif. :)
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I don't think he ever wrote a novel on it; I think he just wanted to do the movie. I looked for the book but couldn't find it.
 
wait-n-see

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
Johnny Twoguns said:
I don't think he ever wrote a novel on it; I think he just wanted to do the movie. I looked for the book but couldn't find it.
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The novel came first, which unfortunately had a low release run. It is currently for sale on Amazon at $125, but not the first edition version released in America.

Search for "the Last Valley" by Pick.

@@@

The Last Valley (novel)

The Last Valley (1959), by J. B. Pick, is an historical novel about the Thirty Years' War (1618–1648). The story occurs from September 1637 to March 1638, and centres on two men – a mercenary soldier and an intellectual – who are fleeing the destruction and starvation wrought by religious war. In southern Germany, each man stumbles upon a fertile valley untouched by the war. Soldier and intellectual, man of arms and man of mind, must collaborate to preserve the peace and plenty of the last valley from the stress and strain of the religious bigotry that caused thirty years of war in Europe.

In Britain, the novel originally was published as The Fat Valley.[1] James Clavell adapted and directed the novel as The Last Valley (1970), with Michael Caine and Omar Sharif, respectively the mercenary captain and the philosopher.[2]
 
J

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
wait-n-see said:
The novel came first, which unfortunately had a low release run. It is currently for sale on Amazon at $125, but not the first edition version released in America.

Search for "the Last Valley" by Pick.

@@@

The Last Valley (novel)

The Last Valley (1959), by J. B. Pick, is an historical novel about the Thirty Years' War (1618–1648). The story occurs from September 1637 to March 1638, and centres on two men – a mercenary soldier and an intellectual – who are fleeing the destruction and starvation wrought by religious war. In southern Germany, each man stumbles upon a fertile valley untouched by the war. Soldier and intellectual, man of arms and man of mind, must collaborate to preserve the peace and plenty of the last valley from the stress and strain of the religious bigotry that caused thirty years of war in Europe.

In Britain, the novel originally was published as The Fat Valley.[1] James Clavell adapted and directed the novel as The Last Valley (1970), with Michael Caine and Omar Sharif, respectively the mercenary captain and the philosopher.[2]
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No wonder I couldn't find it! lol
I looked for books by James Clavell.
 
Tweakette

Tweakette

Irrelevant
We are watching it and think it is very good. The subtitles can be hard to read / deal with here but we other than that we like it.

We do end each episode muttering "speak English, dammit" though LOL.
 
wait-n-see

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
Tweakette said:
We are watching it and think it is very good. The subtitles can be hard to read / deal with here but we other than that we like it.

We do end each episode muttering "speak English, dammit" though LOL.
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From the main title page for the series:

Click "Extras", and then select the episode you want which has "English Dub" in the title. You will get 100% english in these.
 
J

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
Tweakette said:
We are watching it and think it is very good. The subtitles can be hard to read / deal with here but we other than that we like it.

We do end each episode muttering "speak English, dammit" though LOL.
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Lol. I'm a bit inured to that. I've played movies, dubbed, w German, Russian, Korean, Norge, and I can't remember what else. I don't get mad at them. Frustrated at times but not mad. Biggest burr I've got is not telling you a movie is IN a foreign language; if I don't have the time or not interested enough to watch it then a warning would be nice.
 
J

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
Interesting episode 5. Great part with the great shaking.

I don't remember much at all about the book nor the 70's Series; so I am just looking at this as being in an alternate timeline or a Mandela Effect; it is so far an interesting story of an English pilot (BIG DEAL back in 1600) getting stuck in Japan in a period when swords were flashing in malice.

I got a feeling it may fall apart by the end, like so much coming out now like bad Stephan King story endings; but I hope not, it's entertaining and well done so far. Someone put some money into this creation.
 
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