Raised Bed Self-Watering Raised Beds

momma_soapmaker

Disgusted
We are about to build some raised beds, and I've been looking at various set ups. Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Right now, our current thinking is to line the beds with heavy black plastic, lay weeping tile (pipe) in bottom, cover with landscape fabric, then a layer of sand to help wick moisture up, then soil.

Overflows will be added as well as filling tubes.

It is so hot here in Arkansas during the summer, self-watering is a must.

Anyone used a similar set up??
 

summerthyme

Administrator
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I'd be leery of lining the bottom with plastic... landscape fabric, sure. But heavy plastic is going to create a "swimming pool" effect if you get heavy rains, and will also turn plant roots backwards when they reach it.

We use landscape fabric under ours (granted, ours are only 8" deep... if yours are 2 feet deep, it won't be as critical, although drainage may still be a problem) and it's often surprising how many plants will grow their roots through the fabric. Carrots do turn at right angles if they hit it (soil is so rich that carrots that are supposed to be relatively shorter rooted (Nantes type) often hit the fabric and turn 90 degrees, then grow another 4" longer! LOL!)

I would probably use the weeping hose on top, with a heavy mulch on top of that... that is how I set a couple up, and it worked well. Water naturally travels downward, and the effect is more natural than what you're considering. It's not that what you're doing won't work... it should, unless you get some really heavy rains. In some ways, you're creating a shallower "earth box" at ground level, but without the drainage provided by the perforated bottom of the Earthbox (google them if you haven't seen them, and even google "Earthbox Clone", for some homemade plans... you'll see how they work.

The thing about the Earthboxes is that if they get overfull of water (either because someone wasn't paying attention and overfilled them with the hose, or they were outdoors and got heavy rain) the reservoir simply drains out the overflow hole. Your raised beds won't have that ability.

Above all, if at all possible, use the best possible soil which is very high in organic matter. We filled ours with soil from our barnyards... over 50 years of heavy cattle (and horse) use meant it was essentially mostly well composed manure. Very similar in many ways to peat, it's almost black, super rich, and both holds moisture and drains very well. Even in hot dry weather (granted, we're not Arkansas here!) they rarely require watering more often than twice a week.

One other thing i'd consider, especially given your climate... "water holder crystals". These polymer crystals absorb water like a sponge (when full of water, they're like Jello... they can give you a very creepy feeling if you're weeding and you grab one in your fingers... you'll swear you've grabbed a really weird feeling slug!) They hold water after watering, allowing the soil to still retain oxygen (preventing waterlogging of the soil). They release it slowly as the plants need it, and repeat the cycle over and over. We have some large pots and planters that have had them for 3 years, and they're still visible and working. Here's one type (but scroll down for many more options, including some better prices, if you want to buy larger amounts)

https://www.amazon.com/Root-Natural...566843&sr=8-2&keywords=water+holding+crystals

They really can be lifesaving for plants in hot dry weather, and they've allowed me to grow in pots when I almost always lost my plants because we'd get busy haying or otherwise with the farm, and they wouldn't get the daily watering they needed.

Let us know how you end up doing this, and how it works. Always up for learning new ways of doing stuff!

Summerthyme
 

momma_soapmaker

Disgusted
Thank you, Summerthyme! I'm really hoping to do this right the first time so we don't have to dismantle it and start over next year if it doesn't work.

We're planning on doing 16" deep beds, and we will definitely have overflows built into the sides.

Great idea on the water crystals! I normally add peat moss to our mixtures to help retain moisture. During the summer, we were watering our traditional tilled garden daily. We're getting to the age that simpler is better, so raised beds seemed like a good alternative. I'll do some digging on the earth boxes.

Great info - thanks again!
 

summerthyme

Administrator
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Overflows aren't going to solve the problem of oversaturated soil... although if you do install them, I'd want them to be very low in the box... maybe 2" above the bottom?

This same problem is why in large pots, even though they have a drainhole in the bottom, they suggest putting several inches of gravel, pebbles or even broken shards from other clay pots in the bottom, before adding the soil. (The modern version of that is Styrofoam packing peanuts! They definitely save weight)

My concern is that plants drown in waterlogged soil... they need oxygen in the soil, and without it, they literally drown. They turn yellow and sickly, and you get root rot and diseases.

I'll try to find time to watch the video tomorrow. If your climate is such that you rarely get any natural heavy rainfall in the growing season, your plan might work. But if you do, I'd consider using landscape fabric underneath (it will slow the flow of water, but won't stop it) and use the water absorbing crystals to help your beds hold moisture in a way that won't injure your plants.

I completely get the "making things simpler and easier" issue! I just planted 2,000 onion plants (24 bunches)...4 bunches in two, double raised beds, and the rest in one long wide row in the main garden. My back is killing me! The raised beds were just so much easier to do, and at some point I'm going to have to stop growing so much extra for the family, and cut down to what we need only! I think I may plant a couple of raised beds with the "Tall Telephone" pea variety, and use a couple of livestock panels bent in some shape to support them, rather than the usual 2, 50 foot long double rows of a shorter variety, with my short panel sections in between (I once spent an afternoon with bolt cutters and cut several 16 foot livestock panels lengthwise Into thirds. It gave me 16" "fences" with vertical uprights along the bottom, and they are super easy to set up... I just plant the double row with my push seeder and then push the "legs" of the panel "fences" into the soil between them. They don't need any other support, and the peas climb them beautifully. But lately, our pea crops suck, usually due to a combination of too late planting and the increasingly rainy early summers we've been having. It's too much work to only get a few pints of peas. But we love peas!

So, I think I'll try a raised bed. I'm also going to plant a couple of cucumber plants in the raised beds... one hill in each (my beds are poly lumber from Sam's Club, and they are 7 feet long by 3 1/2 feet wide, with a center divider separating them into two squares.) They're just about perfect for being able to reach to plant and weed. And they are incredible for growing carrots! Last year, I got 82# of carrots off two raised beds, plus another 40# of culls (damned wireworms! But the horses had carrots for all winter as did we!) And harvesting them all took me under an hour, and the only time I needed to use the fork was to "open" the bed... once I got the first carrots out, I just had yo grab a handful near the base and gently pull... only broke a few off, and those were the ones that had grown to the bottom of the bed and turned 90 degrees!

Good luck... it's still early here for planting any frost sensitive crops... we can get frost until the 1st of June, although in recent years we've seen several warmer Mays... i don't trust it though!

Summerthyme
 

momma_soapmaker

Disgusted
WOW!! 82# carrots off two raised beds (and 40# culls)!! Just...wow!

I've never had much luck growing carrots. I think our climate is just too hot. We are already hitting 80 degree days and have seen our last frost.

We normally have almost drought conditions by mid-summer. Everything is lush, green, & beautiful right now, but the grass gets crunchy by middle of July. Our summers average 110+ with heat index and horrendous humidity. That's why we're trying to make sure our beds get adequate water. At some point during the summer, our rain just stops.

I'm much encouraged about the raised beds in general though. It's got to be easier than what we've been doing. Lol

Take pics after everything gets going. I love seeing everyone's gardens!
 

summerthyme

Administrator
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One thought.... with that sort of heat, your biggest problem with raised beds is the chances of plant roots "cooking". This makes me even more convinced that black plastic on the bottom isn't a good idea... the plant roots will "instinctively" try to reach into the deeper, cooler soil, and plastic will prevent that.

Here is an excellent site with some info I think would be valuable for you before you spend a lot of time and effort:
https://learn.eartheasy.com/guides/raised-beds-soil-depth-requirements/

There is a chart that shows how deep various plants can root. Note that heavyweight landscape fabric will also limit root expansion, but not to the degree plastic will... smaller feeder roots will penetrate many of the fabrics available.

Also, if you can do everything possible to keep the soil from heating up too much, your yields will be much better. Either white or silver paint for the outside of the beds, and heavy mulch for the surface net well mean the difference between getting a crop or not.

For carrots in your climate, I suspect you'd need to plant in early March, and plan on harvesting by early June. They wont work as a fall crop because the seeds don't sprout in warm/hot soil.

A last tip... invest in a soil thermometer (they aren't terribly expensive, and last a lifetime with reasonable care), and look for charts on germination ranges for various seeds. All seeds have preferred temperature ranges, and then there are points (both high and low) where they simply won't sprout at all.

Water, while very important, is only one variable in a successful garden.

Summerthyme
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
We have built a pair of raised gardens last year and got about a 1,000 pepper over the season. We did have a head start in that 50% of the plants we were able to over winter and thus got an early start on the season.

What we did was 8*8*16 cinder blocks on a small poured footer. We then set blocks in place and filled every other hole with concrete. We did not mortar the blocks. We then built a PVC frame with chicken wire around it.

This had two purposes:
1) it prevented the deer from eating the plants while traveling through the yard.
2) it gave us a chance to keep the frost off the plants and overwinter them.

Item 1 worked well and had no issues unless we forgot to cover the front back up.

Item 2 worked well up until we had an actual ice storm. That killed everything off. I will upgrade it better for next year and how that does.

For the inside of the planter.....

We built up 3 blocks and leveled everything. We then put 1 1/2 blocks of stone at the base. Then followed up with that soil the box stores sell with those crystals that hold water.

The watering system was piped in under the planter and came up inside the walls. We then put a valve on the pipe, ran it the length of the planter and drilled small holes every 6 inches on each side.

This allows us to water the whole planter, ( 18 -27 sq feet depending on which one ), in about 10 minutes. We then shut the valve off and all is done for the day. Based upon this set up we can do as many planters as we wish and keep all of them watered well.

As far as over watering, the excess runs out the cracks or down into the foundation. No issues with over-watering. Weeds can be handled in 5 minutes each month per planter.

Caution.... do not use black plastic.... it will burn the plants on the first day they get full sun at 90 degrees or better. We live in South Georgia and can attest to this from experience.

Downsides.....

You do need to feed the plants on a regular basis and will need to add nutrients also. We are on a small feeding twice a month and it works well. Not expensive at all. We are still using the same 4 lb back as we did last year.

You will need to add soil once a year as the ground will settle and compact. Even with stirring it up, it will need new / more soil.

Hope that helps! :spns:
 

momma_soapmaker

Disgusted
Thank you, 20Gauge! I love reading what others are doing that's working well.

Hubby is about to start ours shortly. We will definitely have deer fencing because they are a problem around here. They had a feast on my peas one night a few years ago. Ate them down to the ground. Sprinkling human hair (save from haircut) around garden helps deter them for a while too.

Everything much appreciated. All of this info certainly helps!
 

Dinghy

Veteran Member
The water crystals idea is great! I would never have thought of that. I did read that you can put a diaper in the bottom of a pot, but I think the crystals would be a lot better.
 

Donna_in_OK

Veteran Member
Look up Wicking Beds as that is basically what you are wanting to make. My husband and I had some for about 5 years before we moved and the output was fantastic. We actually dug down into the ground a foot or so, and put hardware cloth down to keep the moles out, built a 'frame', lined with plastic, put in the tube and actually a bag of mulch too. ;) then the cloth ground cover fabric, a wonderful blend of clay *cough* and our own compost. Every year we added leaf mulch/compost in as well as coffee grinds, ground up egg shells, and even a little wood ash. Man oh man, I wish I could have brought all of that wonderful dirt down here.

Anyway, if you do build a frame, don't forget to put in a little overflow hole just about the line where your ground cover fabric and dirt reach the water storage area as you don't want to overfill. The worms started moving in and they got huge. :) Well worth the investment in time and expense. It is on our 'to do' list, but not the highest priority this spring. Hopefully we can get them built this fall to let the clay/dirt/compost blend over winter.
 

NCGirl

Veteran Member
Last year I did 2 raised beds, I loved them so much this year I added 4 more.

My beds were all made with 2 - 2"x12"x12'boards supported on 4x4's. Beds are 4' wide by 8' long. I had our farmhand build them 24-36" off the ground for easy access. They are 12" deep and I put half topsoil/raised bed soil mix and half horse/mule poo that had been spread out over a years time. I used the poo as mulch also and it worked great. I had him put 1/2" hardware cloth on the bottom (stapled heavily to inside) with heavy duty geotextile fabric (landscape cloth) on top of that. I ran 1 soaker hose per bed and ran a timer to turn on each morning at 5am.

I would suggest this method over plastic bottom. It drains great and my plants were very healthy and happy. Good Luck!
 

momma_soapmaker

Disgusted
Thank you so much for the input! I am soaking up all of these ideas & suggestions.

I'm beyond ready to get started, but we've been finishing up other projects.

I priced Earth Boxes versus building our own raised beds, and the cost of doing it ourselves is less than half. HUGE savings, even though pre-made would be easier.

We're definitely having overflow drains on all beds. The longer beds will probably have two overfows each.

We have heavy clay soil, so whatever we do, it'll have to be amended quite a bit. That's another reason we want to do raised beds rather than continue tilling. We're getting too old for that. Lol
 

summerthyme

Administrator
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If you haven't, Google "EarthBox clone " for do it yourself plans to make them. Well under 15 bucks, if you find a decent deal on the Rubbermaid type storage containers (home depot has some super sturdy containers in large sizes,for reasonable prices,mend often on sale)

Rather than the somewhat pricey "pond baskets" one plan called for, I found plastic colanders at the dollar store, and they've held up and worked well for 8 years.

Drawbacks are size limitations, and breakdown of the plastic by UV rays. If you can protect the containers from the sunning the off season, you'll nearly double their lifespan. Interestingly, mine have been inside a small greenhouse year round, and show no signs of brittleness or breakdown of the plastic. The double wall polycarbonate must *really* block me lot of UV!

Good luck on whatever you decide to do, and definitely keep us updated.

Summerthyme
 

momma_soapmaker

Disgusted
The biggest problem with using the totes is... these have to go in the front yard. We have a long, narrow acre of land (no backyard and the few feet back there is shaded by a huge oak tree). We're rural, so we can do whatever we want, but putting Rubbermaid totes in the front yard is where hubby will draw the line. :D
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Yes, I do hear you on that! LOL! So, essentially (I don't think I understood this in the beginning of the thread) you're wanting to make raised beds that function like an EarthBox?

Summerthyme
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Thank you, 20Gauge! I love reading what others are doing that's working well.

Hubby is about to start ours shortly. We will definitely have deer fencing because they are a problem around here. They had a feast on my peas one night a few years ago. Ate them down to the ground. Sprinkling human hair (save from haircut) around garden helps deter them for a while too.

Everything much appreciated. All of this info certainly helps!

Nothing deters deer for long. We have found the only way to keep them out 100% of the time is to build a frame with 1 1/2" pvc and use chicken wire over the top and along three sides. We then use flexible fencing for the fourth side. It allows us access and does keep the deer out.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
The water crystals idea is great! I would never have thought of that. I did read that you can put a diaper in the bottom of a pot, but I think the crystals would be a lot better.

They will have them in most higher end soils you can buy. They will also sell them on line to add to soil.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Look up Wicking Beds as that is basically what you are wanting to make. My husband and I had some for about 5 years before we moved and the output was fantastic. We actually dug down into the ground a foot or so, and put hardware cloth down to keep the moles out, built a 'frame', lined with plastic, put in the tube and actually a bag of mulch too. ;) then the cloth ground cover fabric, a wonderful blend of clay *cough* and our own compost. Every year we added leaf mulch/compost in as well as coffee grinds, ground up egg shells, and even a little wood ash. Man oh man, I wish I could have brought all of that wonderful dirt down here.

Anyway, if you do build a frame, don't forget to put in a little overflow hole just about the line where your ground cover fabric and dirt reach the water storage area as you don't want to overfill. The worms started moving in and they got huge. :) Well worth the investment in time and expense. It is on our 'to do' list, but not the highest priority this spring. Hopefully we can get them built this fall to let the clay/dirt/compost blend over winter.

Good point. No matter what either attract or add worms. This helps greatly!
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Thank you so much for the input! I am soaking up all of these ideas & suggestions.

I'm beyond ready to get started, but we've been finishing up other projects.

I priced Earth Boxes versus building our own raised beds, and the cost of doing it ourselves is less than half. HUGE savings, even though pre-made would be easier.

We're definitely having overflow drains on all beds. The longer beds will probably have two overfows each.

We have heavy clay soil, so whatever we do, it'll have to be amended quite a bit. That's another reason we want to do raised beds rather than continue tilling. We're getting too old for that. Lol

Doing it yourself allows for modification to suit your needs. In our case, we also built them up higher to allow for old age.
 

momma_soapmaker

Disgusted
Yes, I do hear you on that! LOL! So, essentially (I don't think I understood this in the beginning of the thread) you're wanting to make raised beds that function like an EarthBox?

Summerthyme

Yes! I just didn't know that when I started the thread. Lol After looking at how the Earthbox works, it's the same concept just in raised bed form.
 
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