ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread

jward

passin' thru

Russia’s Annexation Moves, Nuclear Threats Raise Stakes in Ukraine​


Michael R. Gordon and Gordon Lubold​


Updated Sept. 25, 2022 8:08 pm ET
WASHINGTON—The Ukraine war is entering a risky period in which the guardrails for averting military escalation between the U.S. and Russia are increasingly imperiled, current and former U.S. officials say.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has sought to redraw his red line by moving to annex portions of Ukraine, suggesting they will become part of Russia proper once the results of referendums are announced later this week. Mr. Putin warned last week that Moscow might use nuclear weapons if the West attacks Russian territory, which in its view will soon be larger.
For their part, U.S. officials say the Biden administration isn’t asking the Ukrainians to hold back on their attacks, including with American-provided weapons, in the areas Moscow plans to annex.
Recent Ukrainian battlefield successes have heightened the tension.
Ukraine dealt Russia’s Air Force some of its heaviest blows in months over the weekend, shooting down four warplanes and eight Iran-made drones that Russia has recently deployed as it tries to boost control of the air, Ukrainian officials said.

The Ukrainian strikes follow some of the biggest gains by Kyiv since the start of the war and maintain Ukraine’s momentum on the battlefield. The losses raised the number of Russian planes downed to more than 60 since the start of the invasion, when crashes due to mechanical failure and planes destroyed on the ground are included.
U.S. officials have repeatedly said they consider Moscow’s annexation moves to be a sham and won’t recognize any changes to Russian territory.
Responding to Mr. Putin’s warning, the U.S. has also cautioned Russia that its use of nuclear weapons in Ukraine would have “catastrophic consequences, national security adviser Jake Sullivan told the ABC News program “This Week” on Sunday.

“We have been clear with them and emphatic with them that the United States will respond decisively alongside our allies and partners,” Mr. Sullivan said of the warning, which has been conveyed repeatedly in recent months and again in recent days following Mr. Putin’s latest warning about his nuclear capability on Wednesday.
Russian losses in recent weeks have highlighted the momentum Kyiv has gained in the conflict, prompting Russia to undertake a chaotic and controversial mobilization to boost manpower—its first such effort since World War II.
U.S. officials have declined to spell out publicly what steps would be taken if Russia uses nuclear weapons, though Mr. Sullivan said the U.S. has been more explicit to the Russians in private.
To try to control the risk of escalation, President Biden said in May that the U.S. wouldn’t provide Ukraine with rocket systems that can strike targets inside Russia.

In line with that, the Biden administration has refrained from providing the Ukrainians with the Army Tactical Missile Systems, or ATACMS, which has a range of 190 miles.
Instead, the U.S. has provided Ukraine with guided rockets with a range of 48 miles that are fired from 16 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or Himars, launchers. And it has done so only after securing a commitment from Ukraine that it wouldn’t use those rocket systems to strike Russian territory.
Russia has observed some limits of its own by refraining from striking bases on NATO territory that are used to train Ukrainian soldiers and supply them with weapons.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Mr. Putin’s latest nuclear threats should be taken seriously.
“I don’t think he’s bluffing,” Mr. Zelensky said on CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday. “I think the world is deterring it and containing this threat; we need to keep putting pressure on him and not allow him to continue.”
The threats and counterthreats raise the prospect that some of the guardrails against escalation may be overturned as the conflict moves into its seventh month, experts said.
“We are moving into uncharted waters,” said Dara Massicot, an expert on the Russian military with Rand Corporation, a nonpartisan organization whose research is sponsored by the U.S. government and other entities. “Putin is burning bridges behind him by mobilizing troops and holding sham referendums to annex Ukrainian territory. If his strategy doesn’t work, he may feel compelled to lash out.”

U.S. officials say they don’t see any signs that Russia is dispersing or otherwise preparing to use nuclear weapons.
“While the strategic threat of nuclear use has been there, we just have not seen anything tactical to suggest there is a proximate or elevated risk at this point,” said a U.S. official.
And some experts say Mr. Putin’s mobilization may yet succeed in shoring up his military’s positions in Ukraine, eliminating the need for Moscow to consider more dramatic steps.
“I think the risk of nuclear escalation remains fairly low,” said Michael Kofman, an expert on the Russian military at CNA Corp., an independent research organization.
“Putin has made numerous prior nuclear threats in the past, muddying his own credibility,” he added. “Mobilization may stabilize Russian lines, injecting a lot more manpower over time. This may not dramatically change Russia’s fortunes in the war, but it will likely avert the need for any desperate acts.”
Russia warned the U.S. again earlier this month against providing longer-range missiles that could strike Russian territory. Such a move, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova would make the U.S. “a direct party to the conflict.”

Mr. Putin alluded to his nation’s nuclear might in a Wednesday speech in which he said Moscow was prepared to use “all weapons systems available to us” to ensure his nation’s “territorial integrity.”
“This is not a bluff,” Mr. Putin added.
On Saturday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that new territory that is legally included in Russia would be under “the full protection of the state.”
U.S. officials on Sunday reiterated that the Biden administration will never recognize territory inside Ukraine as Russian and will continue to support Kyiv “as long as it takes.”
Thomas Grove contributed to this article.

Write to Michael R. Gordon at michael.gordon@wsj.com and Gordon Lubold at Gordon.Lubold@wsj.com
 

JeanCat

Veteran Member
this is being floated again, still dunno if it's happened





samuel Ramani
@SamRamani2


Russia announces that it is recruiting North Korean workers to develop the Far East Up to 50,000 North Koreans could arrive in Russia. The next step, Donbas?


3:36 PM · Sep 25, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
Kim better be careful. Toynbee pointed out that when a nation goes to war; the nation never remains the same. The Norks will probably get more food, even in Ukraine. Be more loosely monitored out of necessity, learn how to fight, learn how to kill, learn new ways of living and then take those new ways home.
 

jward

passin' thru
One of the many reasons so many doubt that he's really made such a deal with RU. Yet, the rumours persist that he's provided workers to them, and Poland as well as others, so...
 

raven

TB Fanatic
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3

Update: CBS: U.S. Secretary of State Blinken: We've been very clear with the Russians, both in private and in public, and we've asked them to stop talking about nuclear weapons.

Blinken: Vladimir Putin has a clear way out of this war and that is to stop the fighting.

Blinken: We are determined to support Ukraine and also insist that this war does not expand.


7:19 PM · Sep 25, 2022·Twitter Web App
How do you square these two statements.

Russia is not participating in constructive discussions
vs
We've been very clear with the Russians, both in private and in public

. . . unless you were married to you ex-wife for 20 years . . . and you still remember the divorce. then you might "think" you understand it
 

JeanCat

Veteran Member
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3

Update: CBS: U.S. Secretary of State Blinken: We've been very clear with the Russians, both in private and in public, and we've asked them to stop talking about nuclear weapons.

Blinken: Vladimir Putin has a clear way out of this war and that is to stop the fighting.

Blinken: We are determined to support Ukraine and also insist that this war does not expand.


7:19 PM · Sep 25, 2022·Twitter Web App
Great! Blinken has found a new way to control war. All you have to do is “insist” to the other side. Why did I not think of that. Guess Blinken can take his bows later.
 

kochevnik

Senior Member
Europe already cut THEIR OWN gas supply by screwing with NordStream I & II

According to this article - there are still 2 pipelines Russia uses to send gas to Europe that are operational.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-22/russia-says-terror-attack-thwarted-on-energy-link-to-turkey-eu

Russia has already cut shipments to Europe through major pipelines, leaving TurkStream and capped transit flows via Ukraine as the last remaining routes. That’s some 80 million cubic meters of gas a day, or just about 20% of Russia’s normal exports to the continent.
also
Russia’s security service said it thwarted a planned Ukrainian attack on infrastructure delivering energy to Turkey and Europe -- a claim Kyiv denied.

The gas market is particularly sensitive to this kind of developments as Moscow has used disruptions at energy infrastructure in the past to justify curtailments to supplies. The security services of the two countries have traded similar accusations in the past.

The Russian Federal Security Service, known as FSB, “prevented an attempt by the Ukrainian special services to commit a sabotage and terrorist act at the facility of the oil and gas complex that supplies energy to Turkey and Europe,” according to a statement on its website Thursday. A Russian citizen was detained, who the nation’s security service claimed was recruited by Ukraine’s special service.

which of course like all such reports from BOTH sides u have to take with a trainload of salt.
 

kochevnik

Senior Member
And the EU STILL plans on attempting to cap the Russian crude price :


European countries are rushing to agree a deal to put a price cap on Russian oil after President Vladimir Putin ramped up Moscow's aggression in its war on Ukraine, according to a Bloomberg report Friday.

Efforts by European Union members to place a limit on prices for Russian oil have gained momentum after Putin on Wednesday ordered a call-up of military reserves, people familiar with the matter told Bloomberg. The Russian leader also made a veiled threat to use nuclear weapons.

The price cap measure is likely to be included in a new sanctions package that the European Commission, the EU's executive arm, will put forward, those people said, per the report.

The oil market measure would align the EU with the Group of Seven — Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the UK and the US — which agreed to implement a price limit on Russian oil in early September. The G7 has not spoken on the details of its price cap.

Note that Putin has said he will shut off ALL ENERGY SUPPLIES to Europe in the event of a price cap - No Oil No Gas and No Coal. I assume he will do the same to all the G7 countries who try this - which should push US WTI crude back up again I would guess.

Remains to be seen if he will follow thru of course.
 

Doughboy42

Veteran Member
Regardless of where the threat to nuke Ukraine came from, Putin firing a small tactical nuke against Ukraine would follow the Russian doctrine of "Escalate to de-escalate".
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
Kim better be careful. Toynbee pointed out that when a nation goes to war; the nation never remains the same. The Norks will probably get more food, even in Ukraine. Be more loosely monitored out of necessity, learn how to fight, learn how to kill, learn new ways of living and then take those new ways home.
Maybe maybe not. The North Koreans that are currently working in Russia are kept in slave camps. Everything is controlled. Probably be the same in Ukraine.
 

JeanCat

Veteran Member
Maybe maybe not. The North Koreans that are currently working in Russia are kept in slave camps. Everything is controlled. Probably be the same in Ukraine.
Well if that doesn’t work we will smuggle in blue jeans, rock and roll, and Elvis Pressley cd’s. That ought to finish them off.
 

JeanCat

Veteran Member
I've been in Ukr for a year now, but in the last two months am i seeing a significant uptick in unformed soldiers, men and women, sometimes in groups , on the streets .

last week a company sized unit marched through downtown, going i do not know where.

no one seems concerned, however.

i am stocking up for a three month siege, though, if no one else is.
You are in the center of the storm. Stay safe. As an aside could they conscript you.
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
At least 14 killed, 21 injured in Russia school shooting, officials say; suspect was wearing a Nazi swastika0
View: https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1574329756526563331?t=w742FwpfdhBkNKVZGZk09w&s=19
The "official" line from Russia Today.

Fair Use Cited
----------------
26 Sep, 2022 08:06
HomeRussia & FSU

15 killed in 'neo-Nazi' Russian school shooting

The male suspect reportedly died by suicide after the attack in the Udmurt Republic

1664203256371.png
Ammunition used by the attacker at the school in Izhevsk, which bears the word “Hatred” in Russian.


Fifteen people were killed and many others injured in a shooting incident at a school in the city of Izhevsk in Russia’s Urals region on Monday, the country's Investigative Committee has said.

The male suspect was wearing a ski mask and a black T-shirt featuring Nazi symbols, officials added. They said he died by suicide after the attack and his identity is currently being established.

At least eleven of the victims were students at School No. 88 in the city, which has a population of over 600,000.

Two security guards and several teachers were also killed, the Investigative Committee said.

The attack has left 24 people injured, including 22 children, according to the agency.

The suspect was armed with two nonlethal pistols that had been altered to fire live ordnance, Russian lawmaker Aleksandr Khinshtein has claimed.

“A tragedy happened in Udmurtia today,” Republic of Udmurtia Governor Aleksandr Berchalov told journalists.

The school where the shooting took place has been evacuated, according to the education ministry.

Footage from the scene showed students and teachers running from the building, as well as victims being carried to ambulances on stretchers.

Photos from inside the classrooms where students had barricaded themselves during the shooting have also appeared online.

Izhevsk is the capital of the Russian Republic of Udmurtia, and is located near the Ural mountains, which divide Europe from Asia.

 

northern watch

TB Fanatic

Ukrainian Territories To Be Absorbed Into Russia By Week's End: Lawmaker​

BY TYLER DURDEN
ZERO HEDGE
MONDAY, SEP 26, 2022 - 10:20 AM

With four occupied regions of Ukraine currently in the midst of a five-day referendum on whether to join the Russian federation, a Kremlin lawmaker told state media over the weekend that the territories are likely to be absorbed by Russia on September 30.

"Taking into account the preliminary results of the referendums and Russia’s readiness to acknowledge them, the accession of the territories is likely to take place as early as on September 30," the unnamed member of Russia’s State Duma said to TASS.



Voting is set to conclude Tuesday in Donestk, Luhansk and the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, meaning as early as Wednesday or even Thursday announcements of results are likely to trickle out, paving the way for a potential Friday official declaration.

While Russian forces do not yet control the entirety of each of these territories, their annexation would constitute Ukraine losing almost 20% of its geographic territory.

Russian President Vladimir Putin might himself make the proclamation following the referendums, which Ukrainian leaders along with Washington have dismissed as a "sham" - saying they won't be recognized. Russian media reports indicate:
The lawmaker said Russian President Vladimir Putin could take part in the procedure on September 30. "I don’t know if he will [participate], but he is likely to do so," the MP said.
Given that on Saturday Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov vowed new territories would be under Russia’s "full protection" - there is more than likely to be a major uptick in the intensity of fighting to follow the referenda results announcement in eastern Ukraine.

Meanwhile, much has been made of both Putin's and top national security official Dmitry Medvedev's nuclear rhetoric of the past days. What's being largely overlooked in Western media headlines are the Friday statements from Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov, who stressed that Moscow's nuclear doctrine hasn't changed.

"We are not threatening anyone with nuclear weapons," Ryabkov said. "The criteria for their use are outlined in Russia’s military doctrine." He said that their use can only be contemplated if Russia is facing an "existential threat" and is forced to defend itself on that basis of a direct attack on its soil.

 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
Gleiwitz. I would be shocked that the reference eludes you.

I knew but who else here would know?

wiki,

The Gleiwitz incident (German: Überfall auf den Sender Gleiwitz; Polish: Prowokacja gliwicka) was a false flag attack on the radio station Sender Gleiwitz in Gleiwitz (then Germany and now Gliwice, Poland) staged by Nazi Germany on the night of 31 August 1939. Along with some two dozen similar incidents, the attack was manufactured by Germany as a casus belli to justify the invasion of Poland. Prior to the invasion, Adolf Hitler gave a radio address condemning the acts and announcing German plans to attack Poland, which began the next morning.[1][2] Despite the German government using the attack as a justification to go to war with Poland, the Gleiwitz assailants were not Polish but were German SS officers wearing Polish uniforms.
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic
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FdXHEDtX0AIqLOH
 
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