ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread

Walrus

Veteran Member
Konrad Muzyka - Rochan Consulting
@konrad_muzyka

37s

According to various Ukrainian sources, Russia now has some 20-30 battalion tactical groups in the Kherson Oblast. I don't think Kyiv has the manpower needed to counter that so I don't expect a Ukrainian counteroffensive in this area.
Not only that, the BTGs are concentrated in a much smaller front line. The 30 BTGs are aligned in a 180km defensive front with each BTG being responsible for about 6 km of territory, compared with earlier battles in the north where they were spread out to 15km per BTG.
 

Squid

Veteran Member
Let me get all today’s posts out in bullet points.

1. Russia won and you idiots don’t know a damn thing.

2. Ukraine won and you idiots don’t know a damn thing.

3. Russia or Russia and China will nuke (Ukraine/Poland/Germany/England/all Nato/The US) and you idiots don’t know a damn thing.

4. I have the worlds greatest rye bread recipe and you idiots who don’t like rye bread don’t know a damn thing.
 

Walrus

Veteran Member
Excerpt from yesterday's Moon of Alabama website in the readers' comments section:

MoA - Ukraine Open Thread 2022-122

From: Тезисы из доклада Залужнего Кокаиниссимусу. Цифры впечатляют (JonnyMSB) sourced from ТРОЙКА ‍☠️ (translated from the Russian):

Abstracts from Zaluzhny's report for President of All Ukraine Zelensky appeared in the Ukrainian segment of the Telegram. The essence is Achtung on Achtung, and is driven by Achtung.

Judge for yourself:
- The staffing of the Armed Forces of Ukraine remains at the level of 43-48%, despite the mobilization;
- Losses among military personnel - more than 191 thousand killed and wounded;
- More than 80% of the reservists from the fifth wave of mobilization have already been killed, wounded or deserted;

- Statistics on missing persons are not maintained;
- Medicine is working to the limit, the seriously wounded are taken through Poland for treatment in Germany, France, Italy and other countries;

- Stocks of small arms and bulletproof vests are sorely lacking, one out of three servicemen is equipped and ready for combat operations, while the rest have to fight with whatever they have;
- Payments to the mobilized at the place of civilian work have stopped, combat delays (these) up to three months;

- The resource of some samples of equipment transferred by the allies is ending. We are talking mainly about the first batches of the American M777, M109, and, oddly enough, the fairly new Panzerhaubitse 2000 and MARS II;
- Lack of qualified specialists in the operation of Western weapons. Trained military personnel work 24/7 and cannot physically be in multiple locations. For this reason, equipment is trusted by people without a deep understanding of the materiel, therefore, breakdowns occur due to improper operation;

- Problem with consumables, especially hydraulics and liquid nitrogen, required for M777 howitzers. In addition, the titanium design of the gun requires special conditions for repair;
- In the field, an automated fire control system does not last long, fragments and dust are killed quickly enough; there are no opportunities for repairs on the spot, you have to send it to Poland, where there are spare parts and specialists."

Author's comment:
This is a bomb!

Screenshot of the reaction to the report:

It is known to everyone in the General Staff that the report of the commander-in-chief provoked from Zelensky irritation and, to put it mildly, hysterics. The President rudely demanded not to play it safe, to stop sowing panic and to organize a counteroffensive in the east of the country. In short, he somehow received this report in an deluded manner.

If he does not want to decide such things, then we must take matters into our own hands. I hope for understanding and that everyone will know about this, and not just Zaluzhny and Zelensky. Glory to Ukraine!

Posted by: MILLER | Aug 4 2022 18:33 utc | 64
 

patriotgal

Veteran Member
Friend just texted that armed forces in Ukraine sent a "russian spring" message to Zelensky. It's been a loooong day behind the cash register. Anyone care to translate?
 

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
Cracks starting in the deep state MSM wall?

With a little history on what happened before this year.

From Sky News in Australia.

Zelensky 'not all he's portrayed as' by Western media: Bernardi
1,072,573 views Jul 29, 2022 Sky News host Cory Bernardi says “everything we are told” about the Russia-Ukraine conflict should be taken “with a huge dose of salt”.

“I think the President of the Ukraine is not all that he’s portrayed as by the Western media,” Mr Bernardi said.

Runtime: 5:15
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment

More.....

Posted for fair use.....

100,000 North Korean soldiers could be sent to bolster Putin’s forces fighting Ukraine
An army of soldiers from one of the world’s most authoritarian nations could be sent to bolster Vladimir Putin’s forces fighting in Ukraine.
Will Stewart

3 min read
August 5, 2022 - 6:21PM

Up to 100,000 North Korean soldiers could be sent to bolster Vladimir Putin’s forces fighting Ukraine, according to Russian reports.

A leading defence expert in Moscow, reserve colonel Igor Korotchenko, told state TV: “We shouldn’t be shy in accepting the hand extended to us by Kim Jong-un.”

North Korea has made it clear through “diplomatic channels” that as well as providing builders to repair war damage, it is ready to supply a vast fighting force, reported Regnum news agency.

They would be deployed to the forces of the separatist pro-Putin Donetsk People’s Republic [DPR] and Luhansk People’s Republic [LPR], both of which Kim has recently recognised as independent countries.

“The country is ready to transfer up to 100,000 of its soldiers to Donbas,” said the report by the pro-Kremlin news agency.

“Pyongyang will be able to transfer its tactical units to Donbas.”

In return, grain and energy would be supplied to Kim’s stricken economy.
The claim was seized on by Korotchenko, editor-in-chief of Russia’s National Defence journal on Rossiya 1 channel, who said: “There are reports that 100,000 North Korean volunteers are prepared to come and take part in the conflict.”

He was challenged on whether they could be volunteers from North Korea where total obedience is required.

But he said North Korean people were “resilient and undemanding” and “the most important thing is they are motivated”.

He told viewers: “We shouldn’t be shy in accepting the hand extended to us by Kim Jung-un….

“If North Korean volunteers with their artillery systems, wealth of experience with counter battery warfare and large calibre multiple launch rocket systems, made in North Korea, want to participate in the conflict, well let’s give the green light to their volunteer impulse.”

He said: “If North Korea expresses a desire to meet its international duty to fight against Ukrainian fascism, we should let them.”

It was the “sovereign right of the DPR and LPR to sign the relevant agreements”.
Meanwhile Russia should end its participation in international sanctions against Kim’s regime, he claimed.

The claim over North Koreans comes as Russia is desperately seeking to boost its frontline forces by recruiting prisoners in exchange for waiving their jail sentences.

A Dad’s Army of men in their 50s and 60s is also being recruited with the offer of pay higher than many receive in Putin’s moribund economy.

Korotchenko is known for his fierce pro-Putin rhetoric.

Recently he urged Putin to bomb Kyiv with a Kalibr cruise missile inscribed ‘Hasta la vista baby!’ during any Boris Johnson farewell visit - not to “murder” the UK prime minister but in a show of strength.

Russians should feel “no shame” of its ambition of obliterating Ukraine as an independent state, he also said recently.

Such an objective was “absolutely healthy”, he said.

“It was said here that Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine off the geopolitical map of the world,” he said.

“It isn’t quite that.

“We are wiping an anti-Russia project off the geopolitical map of the world….”
Ukraine had “never existed” as a truly independent state in the past, he claimed.

“It is an artificial ‘formation’ which was born thanks to the national policy conducted after 1917 by the Bolsheviks,” he said.

But now it had become “a springboard for a strike against Russia”.

Its political elite “have no right to exist from the point of national interests of our country”.

The West “will not be able to influence the decisiveness of the leadership of our country and our people to make it so that such a threat from the territory now called Ukraine never exists.”

Originally published as 100,000 North Korean soldiers could be sent to bolster Putin’s forces fighting Ukraine
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
The NORKs have about 1.3 million active duty troops. They universally draft at 18 and the length of service for men is 10 years while women are until they are 23.

That is a lot of manpower and I have to wonder if Pyongyang has made a similar deal with Beijing and what else may be in the works?
 
So this is a world war being fought solely in Ukraine.
Only the boots on the ground/bullets/planes/tanks aspect - the economic "world war" (war ALWAYS has a costly economic aspect to it) is being waged upon the greater western world via a failing communist fiat central banking system.

Two different battle spaces - intricately tied together.


intothegoodnight
 
Last edited:

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The NORKs have about 1.3 million active duty troops. They universally draft at 18 and the length of service for men is 10 years while women are until they are 23.

That is a lot of manpower and I have to wonder if Pyongyang has made a similar deal with Beijing and what else may be in the works?

North Korea - much like China - has an excess male population and additionally can barely feed its own people. As others have observed, not "volunteering" to go to Ukraine is probably a death sentence for those soldiers and their families.

Sending 100,000 troops to Ukraine would be a win-win for the Norks: They'll have a hundred thousand less mouths to feed and in turn will receive massive amounts of Russian food and other supplies. Their 100,000 troops - at least those who survive - will have gained front line combat experience and it's a certainty that the Russians will use them as cannon fodder.

There is a great danger for Pyongyang in doing this, though. Russia is a much free-er and more prosperous country than North Korea, as is Ukraine. The Nork troops exposed to both the Russians and Ukrainians, as well as their exposure to Russian media and creature comforts, will return home very disillusioned with their lot at home. This will provide fertile ground for discontent and revolution.

Yes, Russia and Ukraine are poor countries by our standards, but to North Korean troops they will be seen to live in almost god-like luxury!

It would not surprise me in the least if Pyongyang liquidated most or all of their soldiers returning from Ukraine or placed them all in labor battalion type concentration camps upon their return.

Best
Doc
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
For reference.....

Image1512.gif


 
Last edited:

jward

passin' thru
You forgot the & my daddy guru can beat your daddy guru :geek:

Let me get all today’s posts out in bullet points.

1. Russia won and you idiots don’t know a damn thing.

2. Ukraine won and you idiots don’t know a damn thing.

3. Russia or Russia and China will nuke (Ukraine/Poland/Germany/England/all Nato/The US) and you idiots don’t know a damn thing.

4. I have the worlds greatest rye bread recipe and you idiots who don’t like rye bread don’t know a damn thing.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Let me get all today’s posts out in bullet points.

1. Russia won and you idiots don’t know a damn thing.

2. Ukraine won and you idiots don’t know a damn thing.

3. Russia or Russia and China will nuke (Ukraine/Poland/Germany/England/all Nato/The US) and you idiots don’t know a damn thing.

4. I have the worlds greatest rye bread recipe and you idiots who don’t like rye bread don’t know a damn thing.

Rye bread? Did someone say "rye bread"? Yummmmm........
 

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
North Korea - much like China - has an excess male population and additionally can barely feed its own people. As others have observed, not "volunteering" to go to Ukraine is probably a death sentence for those soldiers and their families.

Sending 100,000 troops to Ukraine would be a win-win for the Norks: They'll have a hundred thousand less mouths to feed and in turn will receive massive amounts of Russian food and other supplies. Their 100,000 troops - at least those who survive - will have gained front line combat experience and it's a certainty that the Russians will use them as cannon fodder.

There is a great danger for Pyongyang in doing this, though. Russia is a much free-er and more prosperous country than North Korea, as is Ukraine. The Nork troops exposed to both the Russians and Ukrainians, as well as their exposure to Russian media and creature comforts, will return home very disillusioned with their lot at home. This will provide fertile ground for discontent and revolution.

Yes, Russia and Ukraine are poor countries by our standards, but to North Korean troops they will be seen to live in almost god-like luxury!

It would not surprise me in the least if Pyongyang liquidated most or all of their soldiers returning from Ukraine or placed them all in labor battalion type concentration camps upon their return.

Best
Doc


Not that much of a danger for North Korea. North Korea been providing slave labor to Russia for over 15 years.

N Koreans toiling in Russia's timber camps
Page last updated at 21:45 GMT, Wednesday, 26 August 2009 22:45 UK
N Koreans toiling in Russia's timber camps
Simon Ostrovsky has travelled to remote far eastern Russia and obtained rare footage of North Koreans who are working there as labourers under an agreement between their secretive Stalinist state and a company run by British businessmen.

To the West, North Korea is a pariah state, best known for its secrecy, famines, belligerent politics and its leader's brutality.

At home, North Koreans live under total government control and the watchful eye of the Dear Leader, Kim Jong-il.

But in the Amur region of Russia, almost 1,000 miles (1,600 km) from the border, North Korea has created a home away from home at a series of remote logging camps in which nearly 1,500 workers are employed.

I travelled to one of the camps deep in the forest. A giant monument bearing the words "Our greatest leader Kim Il-sung lives with us forever" stood in the middle.

One of the buildings had a sign which read "Laboratory of Kim Il-sung's Theory" a commonly used slogan found on North Korean administration blocks. The camp even had its own theatre.

Further into the forest we found a group of North Koreans hard at work. They lived in a mobile wagon, decorated with portraits of the North Korean leaders.

Although reluctant to speak, one told me that he earned the equivalent of $200 per month. Another said that he earned $1 for each truck he loaded and that he could load up to nine per day, but he had not been paid since May.

Production targets

To try to find out who employed the North Koreans I travelled to Tynda, where the headquarters of the region's logging operations are based.

I met Sergey Sarnavsky, the director of a small local timber firm which has a contract with Association No 2, a state-owned North Korean organisation.

"The Koreans work year round with two days off per year," he told me. "All the other days are working days no matter what the weather conditions, they always work.

"The Koreans work for the government and their communist party, they've got production targets," he said. "If the quota is filled then everything is ok. If it is not fulfilled, well then they've got their Communist Party of North Korea, and everybody gets punished from the managers down to the worker who didn't fulfil the quota."

Escape

Many North Korean labourers have tried to escape the camps. Over the last two decades thousands have abandoned their work and now live in constant fear of arrest and deportation to North Korea.

Branded enemies of the people by their homeland they are wanted by Russian police and their own country's security services.

One worker, who ran away in the 1990s and had been given refuge by a Russian family, told me about life working in the camps, where winter temperatures regularly drop to 30C below zero:

"I was working endless hours. Twelve hours is normal in North Korea, but working 12 hours at the camps is very hard. In winter it's very cold... It's hard to work on an empty stomach. But the living conditions were the worst part.

"The logs cause injuries. The drivers drop logs and people get killed. Because people are so cold, they can't avoid falling trees and are killed."

'Treated as traitors'

Russian human rights organisations are working with North Korean defectors. They say that often, after months of work, the labourers are underpaid and sometimes not paid at all.

Svetlana Gannushkina's organisation is assisting some two dozen former loggers who escaped before 2001 and are now living in hiding. I asked her what would happen if they were handed over to the North Korean authorities.

"They can expect terrible suffering, they can expect a cruel death," she said. "We know of cases when people in the moment of their detention have simply, killed themselves. These people and their families become pariahs in their own country. They are treated as traitors."

Commercial benefits

So who benefits commercially now from North Korean labour in Russia's Far East?

The North Korean state, which provides the labour through Association No 2, take 35% of the proceeds from their logging operations in Russia - approximately $7m per year.

The remainder goes to a firm called Tynda Les, who are owned by the Russian Timber Group - the largest logging firm in the region with around 1,400 North Koreans working on its sites.

The Russian Timber Group was founded in 2004 by British businessman, Peter Hambro and a Russian business partner. Together they bought up a number of forestry rights across Russia covering an area roughly the size of Belgium.

I asked Russian Timber Group's CEO, Peter Hambro's son Leo, if they had any control over the loggers' welfare.

He told me that the Russian Timber Group makes sure that the company which provides the workers complies with the Russian labour code and that they get regularly inspected. He also said that Russian Timber Group had no involvement in how much the workers are paid.

"There is always going to be criticism... of any involvement with North Korea, especially as its been flagged by people like President Obama as an axis of evil," he told me.

"It is not in our interest - in our public relations interest - to continue our involvement with the North Korean workers. But at the moment our product sells... and we are happy to continue our involvement because they are workers who are prepared to work while there is timber to be sold at good values."

@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@



A very interesting youtube vid series covering this very subject:

North Korean Labor Camps (Part 1 of 7)
11,313,958 views Dec 19, 2011 North Korea has come up with a new way to bring cold hard cash into its isolated country: export North Korean workers to slave away in the Siberian forest (often without telling them they're no longer in North Korea). We set out to investigate these camps and almost landed ourselves in quite a bit of trouble.

Runtime: 5:31
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
Not that much of a danger for North Korea. North Korea been providing slave labor to Russia for over 15 years.

N Koreans toiling in Russia's timber camps
Page last updated at 21:45 GMT, Wednesday, 26 August 2009 22:45 UK
N Koreans toiling in Russia's timber camps
Simon Ostrovsky has travelled to remote far eastern Russia and obtained rare footage of North Koreans who are working there as labourers under an agreement between their secretive Stalinist state and a company run by British businessmen.

To the West, North Korea is a pariah state, best known for its secrecy, famines, belligerent politics and its leader's brutality.

At home, North Koreans live under total government control and the watchful eye of the Dear Leader, Kim Jong-il.

But in the Amur region of Russia, almost 1,000 miles (1,600 km) from the border, North Korea has created a home away from home at a series of remote logging camps in which nearly 1,500 workers are employed.

I travelled to one of the camps deep in the forest. A giant monument bearing the words "Our greatest leader Kim Il-sung lives with us forever" stood in the middle.

One of the buildings had a sign which read "Laboratory of Kim Il-sung's Theory" a commonly used slogan found on North Korean administration blocks. The camp even had its own theatre.

Further into the forest we found a group of North Koreans hard at work. They lived in a mobile wagon, decorated with portraits of the North Korean leaders.

Although reluctant to speak, one told me that he earned the equivalent of $200 per month. Another said that he earned $1 for each truck he loaded and that he could load up to nine per day, but he had not been paid since May.

Production targets

To try to find out who employed the North Koreans I travelled to Tynda, where the headquarters of the region's logging operations are based.

I met Sergey Sarnavsky, the director of a small local timber firm which has a contract with Association No 2, a state-owned North Korean organisation.

"The Koreans work year round with two days off per year," he told me. "All the other days are working days no matter what the weather conditions, they always work.

"The Koreans work for the government and their communist party, they've got production targets," he said. "If the quota is filled then everything is ok. If it is not fulfilled, well then they've got their Communist Party of North Korea, and everybody gets punished from the managers down to the worker who didn't fulfil the quota."

Escape

Many North Korean labourers have tried to escape the camps. Over the last two decades thousands have abandoned their work and now live in constant fear of arrest and deportation to North Korea.

Branded enemies of the people by their homeland they are wanted by Russian police and their own country's security services.

One worker, who ran away in the 1990s and had been given refuge by a Russian family, told me about life working in the camps, where winter temperatures regularly drop to 30C below zero:

"I was working endless hours. Twelve hours is normal in North Korea, but working 12 hours at the camps is very hard. In winter it's very cold... It's hard to work on an empty stomach. But the living conditions were the worst part.

"The logs cause injuries. The drivers drop logs and people get killed. Because people are so cold, they can't avoid falling trees and are killed."

'Treated as traitors'

Russian human rights organisations are working with North Korean defectors. They say that often, after months of work, the labourers are underpaid and sometimes not paid at all.

Svetlana Gannushkina's organisation is assisting some two dozen former loggers who escaped before 2001 and are now living in hiding. I asked her what would happen if they were handed over to the North Korean authorities.

"They can expect terrible suffering, they can expect a cruel death," she said. "We know of cases when people in the moment of their detention have simply, killed themselves. These people and their families become pariahs in their own country. They are treated as traitors."

Commercial benefits

So who benefits commercially now from North Korean labour in Russia's Far East?

The North Korean state, which provides the labour through Association No 2, take 35% of the proceeds from their logging operations in Russia - approximately $7m per year.

The remainder goes to a firm called Tynda Les, who are owned by the Russian Timber Group - the largest logging firm in the region with around 1,400 North Koreans working on its sites.

The Russian Timber Group was founded in 2004 by British businessman, Peter Hambro and a Russian business partner. Together they bought up a number of forestry rights across Russia covering an area roughly the size of Belgium.

I asked Russian Timber Group's CEO, Peter Hambro's son Leo, if they had any control over the loggers' welfare.

He told me that the Russian Timber Group makes sure that the company which provides the workers complies with the Russian labour code and that they get regularly inspected. He also said that Russian Timber Group had no involvement in how much the workers are paid.

"There is always going to be criticism... of any involvement with North Korea, especially as its been flagged by people like President Obama as an axis of evil," he told me.

"It is not in our interest - in our public relations interest - to continue our involvement with the North Korean workers. But at the moment our product sells... and we are happy to continue our involvement because they are workers who are prepared to work while there is timber to be sold at good values."

@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@



A very interesting youtube vid series covering this very subject:

North Korean Labor Camps (Part 1 of 7)
11,313,958 views Dec 19, 2011 North Korea has come up with a new way to bring cold hard cash into its isolated country: export North Korean workers to slave away in the Siberian forest (often without telling them they're no longer in North Korea). We set out to investigate these camps and almost landed ourselves in quite a bit of trouble.

Runtime: 5:31
I think that it would be harder to control the soldiers as they take Ukrainian territory. They will see the TVs, clothes, cars, food etc. In a camp it is easy to keep them locked up and isolated.
 

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
I think that it would be harder to control the soldiers as they take Ukrainian territory. They will see the TVs, clothes, cars, food etc. In a camp it is easy to keep them locked up and isolated.

The North Korean mind control is so tight that there will be no issue of that at all.

Any soldiers who dare show anything different from what is demanded of them will see their parents, spouse, children and siblings placed in a reeducation camp right away.
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
JUST IN - Biden admin to announce another $1 billion weapons package for Ukraine, the single largest so far, Reuters reports.
View: https://twitter.com/edwardrussl/status/1555629957459484674?s=20&t=oMSm189SMSawgUl03e90GA
Inflation is really hammering us. It is costing us some real serious Investment to try to get this WW3 off the ground! Maybe it is the 10% Being laundered for The Big Guy (Resident Biden ) that is making it just seem expensive...
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Not that much of a danger for North Korea. North Korea been providing slave labor to Russia for over 15 years.

N Koreans toiling in Russia's timber camps
Page last updated at 21:45 GMT, Wednesday, 26 August 2009 22:45 UK
N Koreans toiling in Russia's timber camps
Simon Ostrovsky has travelled to remote far eastern Russia and obtained rare footage of North Koreans who are working there as labourers under an agreement between their secretive Stalinist state and a company run by British businessmen.
To the West, North Korea is a pariah state, best known for its secrecy, famines, belligerent politics and its leader's brutality.


At home, North Koreans live under total government control and the watchful eye of the Dear Leader, Kim Jong-il.

But in the Amur region of Russia, almost 1,000 miles (1,600 km) from the border, North Korea has created a home away from home at a series of remote logging camps in which nearly 1,500 workers are employed.

I travelled to one of the camps deep in the forest. A giant monument bearing the words "Our greatest leader Kim Il-sung lives with us forever" stood in the middle.

One of the buildings had a sign which read "Laboratory of Kim Il-sung's Theory" a commonly used slogan found on North Korean administration blocks. The camp even had its own theatre.

Further into the forest we found a group of North Koreans hard at work. They lived in a mobile wagon, decorated with portraits of the North Korean leaders.

Although reluctant to speak, one told me that he earned the equivalent of $200 per month. Another said that he earned $1 for each truck he loaded and that he could load up to nine per day, but he had not been paid since May.

Production targets

To try to find out who employed the North Koreans I travelled to Tynda, where the headquarters of the region's logging operations are based.

I met Sergey Sarnavsky, the director of a small local timber firm which has a contract with Association No 2, a state-owned North Korean organisation.

"The Koreans work year round with two days off per year," he told me. "All the other days are working days no matter what the weather conditions, they always work.

"The Koreans work for the government and their communist party, they've got production targets," he said. "If the quota is filled then everything is ok. If it is not fulfilled, well then they've got their Communist Party of North Korea, and everybody gets punished from the managers down to the worker who didn't fulfil the quota."

Escape

Many North Korean labourers have tried to escape the camps. Over the last two decades thousands have abandoned their work and now live in constant fear of arrest and deportation to North Korea.

Branded enemies of the people by their homeland they are wanted by Russian police and their own country's security services.

One worker, who ran away in the 1990s and had been given refuge by a Russian family, told me about life working in the camps, where winter temperatures regularly drop to 30C below zero:

"I was working endless hours. Twelve hours is normal in North Korea, but working 12 hours at the camps is very hard. In winter it's very cold... It's hard to work on an empty stomach. But the living conditions were the worst part.

"The logs cause injuries. The drivers drop logs and people get killed. Because people are so cold, they can't avoid falling trees and are killed."

'Treated as traitors'

Russian human rights organisations are working with North Korean defectors. They say that often, after months of work, the labourers are underpaid and sometimes not paid at all.

Svetlana Gannushkina's organisation is assisting some two dozen former loggers who escaped before 2001 and are now living in hiding. I asked her what would happen if they were handed over to the North Korean authorities.

"They can expect terrible suffering, they can expect a cruel death," she said. "We know of cases when people in the moment of their detention have simply, killed themselves. These people and their families become pariahs in their own country. They are treated as traitors."

Commercial benefits

So who benefits commercially now from North Korean labour in Russia's Far East?

The North Korean state, which provides the labour through Association No 2, take 35% of the proceeds from their logging operations in Russia - approximately $7m per year.

The remainder goes to a firm called Tynda Les, who are owned by the Russian Timber Group - the largest logging firm in the region with around 1,400 North Koreans working on its sites.

The Russian Timber Group was founded in 2004 by British businessman, Peter Hambro and a Russian business partner. Together they bought up a number of forestry rights across Russia covering an area roughly the size of Belgium.

I asked Russian Timber Group's CEO, Peter Hambro's son Leo, if they had any control over the loggers' welfare.

He told me that the Russian Timber Group makes sure that the company which provides the workers complies with the Russian labour code and that they get regularly inspected. He also said that Russian Timber Group had no involvement in how much the workers are paid.

"There is always going to be criticism... of any involvement with North Korea, especially as its been flagged by people like President Obama as an axis of evil," he told me.

"It is not in our interest - in our public relations interest - to continue our involvement with the North Korean workers. But at the moment our product sells... and we are happy to continue our involvement because they are workers who are prepared to work while there is timber to be sold at good values."

@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@



A very interesting youtube vid series covering this very subject:

North Korean Labor Camps (Part 1 of 7)
11,313,958 views Dec 19, 2011 North Korea has come up with a new way to bring cold hard cash into its isolated country: export North Korean workers to slave away in the Siberian forest (often without telling them they're no longer in North Korea). We set out to investigate these camps and almost landed ourselves in quite a bit of trouble.

Runtime: 5:31

Pyongyang has also sent a lot of weapons technicians and specialists including pilots to all the hot spots for decades.

Recall a few years ago the reported nerve gas accident in Syria involving North Korean missile and CW technicians demonstrating to Syrians, and possibly IRGC/Hezbollah personnel, how to load and prep a CW armed SCUD?
 

jward

passin' thru
Zaporizhzhia: Real risk of nuclear disaster in Ukraine - watchdog
By George Wright

3-4 minutes


By George Wright
BBC News
Image source, Reuters
Image caption,
Russia seized the Zaporizhzhia plant - the biggest in Europe - in March but kept its Ukrainian employees
The UN's nuclear watchdog has called for an immediate end to any military action near Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, warning of a "very real risk of a nuclear disaster".

IAEA chief Rafael Mariano Grossi said he was "extremely concerned" by reports of shelling at Europe's largest nuclear power plant.
It comes as Ukraine said parts of the facility were "seriously damaged" by Russian military strikes.
Russia seized the plant in March.
It has kept its Ukrainian employees, but Kyiv accuses Russian forces of firing rockets at civilian areas from the site, employing "terror tactics".
Friday's strikes underline "the very real risk of a nuclear disaster that could threaten public health and the environment in Ukraine and beyond", Mr Grossi said in a statement.
"Any military firepower directed at or from the facility would amount to playing with fire, with potentially catastrophic consequences," he added.

Ukrainian staff must be able to carry out their important duties "without threats or pressure", he said, adding that the IAEA should be allowed to provide technical support.
"For the sake of protecting people in Ukraine and elsewhere from a potential nuclear accident, we must all set aside our differences and act, now. The IAEA is ready," said Mr Grossi, days after stating the plant was "completely out of control".
The operator of the Zaporizhzhia plant said the Russian missile strikes had forced the closure of one "power unit", adding that there was a risk of radioactive leaks.
The strikes "caused a serious risk for the safe operation of the plant", operator Enerhoatom wrote on Telegram.
Moscow said Ukraine carried out the attack.

The BBC was unable to verify the reported damage at the nuclear plant.
However, the EU has hit out at Moscow over the latest shelling with the bloc's top diplomat, Josep Borrell, saying it "condemns Russia's military activities" around the plant.
"This is a serious and irresponsible breach of nuclear safety rules and another example of Russia's disregard for international norms," he said, and called for the IAEA to be granted access to the plant.
Russian forces hold the plant and surrounding areas, close to Ukrainian-held territory. It consists of six pressurised water reactors and stores radioactive waste.

Civilians in nearby Nikopol, which lies across the river and is still under Ukrainian control, told the BBC that the Russians were firing rockets from the area around the plant and moving military hardware into the compound.
Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Friday that "any bombing of this site is a shameless crime, an act of terror".
The plant is in the city of Enerhodar, in the south-east of Ukraine along the left bank of the River Dnieper (Dnipro in Ukrainian).
The UK defence ministry says Russia is using the area to launch attacks - taking advantage of the "protected status" of the nuclear power plant to reduce the risk of overnight attacks from Ukrainian forces.
 

Abert

Veteran Member
If there is that much concern about the Reactor - shut it down - will take a few days for the reactions to cool - but would solve the major problem, Besides WHY would Russia hit the reactor - their troops are DOWN WIND from it???
 
Top