Realized my growing kids increased appetites cuts my prep food mileage by >33%.

[Worrier King]

FWIW.

Recently my 3 growing teen aged children have really started eating a lot more. For example: whereas 2 cans of veggies would feed 5 of us at a meal with leftovers, now we are eating 3 cans of veggies per a meal with no leftovers.

So with that develpment, what was 3 months of solid food prep planning and eating hearty, are now down to 2 months of cautious eating. Additionally, I won't be surprised if the kids appetite increased more to even to a fourth can of veggies, at which point what a week ago I thought was 3 months preps is suddenly realistically down to maybe 6 weeks, and then the menus will get a lot different.

Was buying the same amount of foods as always, but noticed the pantry inventories decreasing instead of being stable or increasing. DOH!

We do quite a bit of stuff in bulk, but we burn thru food so fast now, some bulk things (bags rice, beans) I don't pack and move into rotation, saving additional expense and time, (why pack it to open it a few weeks later) as a lot of the bulk food inventory are mylar packed with 02 absorbers and have years of life span yet.

I know quite a few people think they are going to reduce caloric intake WTSHTF, not a option here. Maybe other folks can learn form my oversight, and themselves are not considering INCREASED caloric intake, and its something other people have overlooked. I find it to be a glaring miscalculation in my plans.

This sure bit me in the ass unexpectedly, I obviously should of thought about it and realzied it sooner, thank heavens I still have time to remedy it but its certainly a urgent problem that nees to be started on today grocery shopping. I'm overly tempted with the JC Refuges deal which is pretty damn sweet, negotiating with the wife now who had put her foot down on my indescretionate survival spending.

Just something to think about, FWIW.

 

[Dinghy]

I know what you mean!!! I couldn't keep much food in the house when all my kids were here. The only stuff left behind would be the stuff they didn't like! Once I got serious about stocking up I got a bit of a surprise also. I thought a quart canning jar of soup, or whatever, would be enough to feed two people a meal. Not!! So I had to think up ways to stretch the stuff I have in an emergency. Chilli over rice or mashed potatoes. Liver dumplings with noodles added. Vegetable soup with little pasta added, etc. You also eat more at different times of the year. We eat very little in the summer, but seem to eat a lot more in the winter! So much planning to do!!

 

[Splicer205]

Thanks for posting this info WK. Probably something that many don't think of until it's too late. Another thing that's easy to overlook is how much sugar and salt we truly use. Though it doesn't seem like much, think of the sugar and salt in all the products we buy, that we may have to make ourselves, either because it's not available, or because it's beyond the price many will be able to pay. Bread, applesauce, jellies and jams, pickles, all use a lot of sugar. Canned soups have a lot of salt, as do many of the canned items we buy.

 

[barb43]

We're down to one teen at home -- he'll be 17 in the spring. Boy, can he eat!

 

[Worrier King]

We're down to one teen at home -- he'll be 17 in the spring. Boy, can he eat!

Junior leaves home and you start to stretch that pantry longer. You'll use less food, making what you have last longer. Hopefully he don't eat you out of house and home before then. Ages 16, 14, 12 here....

 

[Troke]

During the Leningrad siege, the highest mortality rate was amongst pre-teen and teenagers. They got the same ration, but needed twice as much.

Melancholy thought.

I no longer have teenagers around but...one never knows if a family has to retreat back here.

Another melancholy thought.

 

[hillbilly]

YEP

 

[Worrier King]

I no longer have teenagers around but...one never knows if a family has to retreat back here.

Very true. Imagine finding you have a miscalculated food shortage like this, THEN additional, unexpected people showing up at your door that weren't planned for. They are literally taking food out of your families mouth if you put up with them. I do have a box of empty 2 litre bottles and smaller 20ozers. Sad to say, should dgi's come by, maybe I'll put some beans or rice in the bottles and send them on their way, at least thats maybe being semi-humane.

Troke, didn't know that about Leningrad and the teenagers, very interesting.

 

[horse and hammer]

I would recommend that you all take a look at a energy requirement table put out by the US, Canada or the WHO, they all differ somewhat, to find out how many calories are needed for your body weight, age and activity levels. I would not assume the 2,000 calorie a day standard. This is a good way to start looking at your pantry of food to determine how long it will last.

I had Horse keep a food diary for a month and he could not believe the amount of food and calories he consumed each day given that he is very active, but if shtf, he could be even more active.

I will use the energy table by WHO from my old nutrition class book to look at Horse's energy needs depending on his activity level.

Body weight...kg...lbs......Lightly active..Moderately...Very active...Eceptionally........

100kg...220lbs.(6ft..5in.).......4200.......4600........5400............6200.........................

Activity levels as defined by FAO/WHO:

Light: Professional men, office workers, shop workers or unemployed men
Housewives, modern, office workers, teachers, proffessional women

Moderately: Light industry, students, many farm workers, soldiers, not in active
service, fishermen
Housewives without modern appliances

Very Active: Agricultural workers, unskilled laborers, forestry workers, army
recruits, soldiers in active service, mine workers, steel workers
Some farm workers, peasant ( their words, not mine), dancers

Exceptionally: Lumberjacks, blacksmiths, roof tear-off crews (my words)
Women construction workers

As you can see from Lightly active to exceptionally active the calories needed are increased about 50%.

I think this is an important topic to look into for anyone planning on living on their food stores for an extended period of time.

Mary

 

[Laurie the Mom]

I have 7 kids, with another one due this fall. They are 19, 16, 13, 11, 9, 6 and 4. Our grocery bills are truly scary. I buy EVERYTHING in bulk!

Laurie

 

[LeafyForest]

Really something to think about. There are only the two of us now, but know if things get too much worse we may have the kids and grandkids to feed and house as well - which is not what we have been planning or stocking for. So may have to prepare for that now while we are in the thinking stage, as the days ahead don't look to promising at the moment! Thanks for the heads up - I think!!!

 

[Worrier King]

I have 7 kids, with another one due this fall. They are 19, 16, 13, 11, 9, 6 and 4. Our grocery bills are truly scary. I buy EVERYTHING in bulk!

Laurie

DANG! Now there's full time job and a half.

More power to you Laurie.

 

[summerthyme]

Yep... that's why the best "food storage planning" software programs (or books- James Talmage Stevens "Making the Best of Basics" is a good one) has adjustments for both age and sex. A teenage boy can consume THREE TIMES as many calories as an adult female!!

My "problem" is the opposite... I prepped through my kids teenage years, and at one point had three teenage boys and one girl at home... plus, we are farmers and work hard- with the resulting required calorie consumption. The preps now are vastly overdone for just the two of us. BUT... I assume (and so do the kids!) that it TSHTF, they are all likely to head home to the farm- with spouses! So, maybe I don't have a problem after all. In fact, I'd better check to be sure I have enough!

The other consideration.. if the situation you've prepped for is extended, and includes not having power, you're going to be working a LOT harder than most people are accustomed to. If that's a different lifestyle for you, you have NO clue how many calories a hard working man or woman can consume and not gain an ounce. Hubby still can easily eat 3,000 to 4,000 calories a day and stays fit and trim in his 50's... and he only weighs about 150#. It takes a LOT of calories to replace what petroleum.

Bulk foods are good... but make sure you've got plenty of high calorie (read: fats and oils) stuff as well. Otherwise, the teens especially will be constantly hungry.

Summerthyme

 

[Hansa44]

I realize teenagers can eat a lot. I raised 2. But when it comes down to living off your preps there will need to be a whole lot of discipline in their eating habits which can verge on gluttony.

I would think the time is now for them to start to learn what may be coming in the near future.

 

[BV141]

Worrier King,

The oldest, 6 six year old boy, just starting eating a whole lot more! Adult like amounts. He's got 2 more siblings behind him.

As a result, I bumped up stored food preps 6 man months, and may double that.

(The other reason being food consumption can soar if winter heating is cut off.
Not that is an worry for another 7 months now.)



bv

 

[summerthyme]

Hansa... I understand what you are trying to say. But my teens could eat 8,000 calories or more PER DAY and not gain an ounce! (I know... to anyone trying to lose weight on a restricted diet, that sounds impossible. Believe me... for hard working, hard playing or just very active teens... it's not)

Read Troke's post on the deaths of the teens and young adults during the Leningrad siege... it's not gluttony to eat what your growing/developing body and high metabolism require.

Now, I certainly know teens who are overweight to obese, don't work, play or exercise, and eat like pigs... but that's not what we're talking about in general here. If anyone has members of their family in that category, they WILL have to do some serious rationing/limiting.. and I don't envy them! And yes, starting now- even if TS NEVER HTF, would be a good way to help improve the young people's lives.

But I'll bet most of them won't change unless forced... and maybe not then.

Summerthyme

 

[dreamseeer]

I want to comment on why I think your kids are woofing down so much food.

There are a lot of foreign chemicals in all packaged, frozen and canned foods in the grocery store. Some of these chemicals are KNOWN to of all things......stimulate the appetite. It is called marketing. You HAVE TO READ the LABELS. One such chemical is MSG.....bad, very bad.

This chemical is in literally almost everything. You and your kids are consuming an enormous amount of this chemical through out the day in all the sum total of all the products eaten that day.

This chemical is put in food to make you go "YUMMMMMMM" and want more. It is used to hide the fact that the food in the can or frozen or packaged would otherwise taste like sh*t and you most likely wouldn't eat it.

Even if it isn't on the label it is sometimes hidden by another name like "natural flavors" or "spices" .........otherwise undefined.

This is but one such chemcial that is causing obesity in people.

When you go on a survival diet of more rice and beans and "single" items......peas, corn, etc.....you should see a drop in weight but it won't be because you aren't getting enough calories or food.........

this will be a good thing.

Kids are so used to snacking in our society.......but they snack the wrong things.....things with these chemicals in them that make them more hungry.

Yes, I do understand that even without these chemcials teenagers do consume more food......they are burning lots of energy and still growing.

They will need lots of retraining in how to eat and there will be lots of whinning and crying and poor me routine to deal with. They will get over it.

You just hold onto the keys to the food store room so it doesn't get pilaged.

They are going to have withdrawal symptoms from potatoe chips, soda and other candies, or snacks they have been used to eating.

Trust me.........they will not starve is they get NO snack in between meals. I didn't.

 

[Splicer205]

Summerthyme, your working teens are very fortunate that you understand their needs. Reading the history of the pioneer life, and the way they ate, makes a persons' arteries clog at the thought of it. But, with the work they were doing, it was necessary. We've become so soft that it's hard to imagine. Here's an interesting clip from earlier farming days.

The farmers' wives played an important role on threshing day. They spread a table for the hot, sweaty men who actually "ate like threshers."

At that time a dining room table worth having would stretch out to 12 feet after the boards were inserted. Women used their second-best table cloths, for despite a wash-up some of the workers left their mark.

Hungry men around a table set for threshers could devour a dishpan full of peeled potatoes that were then mashed or creamed. To go with the potatoes were bowls of chicken, ham and beef gravy. Side dishes included cole slaw, applesauce, garden peas, green beans and home-cut noodles. Hot biscuits were passed along with country butter, assorted jellies and jams. There was the choice of milk, buttermilk, tea or coffee.

While menus varied, the tables groaned under the weight of the platters of fried chicken, ham or home-raised beef Dessert was expected- -always pie and cake. The pie was cut at least in six pieces, any less would have been considered stingy. Threshing gave each farm woman a chance to present her specialty- -something not served by others cooking for the ring.
http://www.middle-america.org/crout/Madison/downfarm.html

The softies of today couldn't survive meals like this very often, but when/if things change so that we're doing more manual labor without modern conveniences, we'll be grateful to eat like this.

And Laurie the Mom, though you might not feel like it some days, you're a very lucky lady.

 

[summerthyme]

dreamseer... do you have kids? Active, healthy kids?

Because I hate to break it to you, but mine were eating ALL homegrown, organic meats, vegetables, dairy and fruit...

"Treats" were home baked, mostly whole wheat.

I know what you're trying to say, but unfortunately, it's not that simple.

Summerthyme

 

[summerthyme]

Splicerswife... it is truly a life and lifestyle that most people can't comprehend. And yes, despite eating eggs, ice cream, cheese, WHOLE milk (and that being raw milk from our tank, which always tests 4.0% fat or higher- "whole" milk in the store is 3.25% fat)... plenty of meat, including beef and pork, chicken, turkey (with the skin- ack! LOL!)... basically, whatever we wanted, but WHOLE foods... our "numbers" (blood pressure, heart rate, cholesterol, etc) are "perfect" according to the docs who we see very, very rarely.

Interestingly, I'm on a grazing e-list. And several of the older farmers on the list- who eat/ate pretty much the same way have been talking about seeing their doctors recently. These guys aren't quite as trim as they used to be- getting up there in years and have hired help doing more of the physical work now) but their doctors apparently freak out at their blood levels of cholesterol, etc. Extremely high levels of "the good stuff"... practically off the chart in several cases.

My mom would come to visit and help with meal prep, etc. She'd ask "how many potatoes should I bring up".. from the root cellar and I'd say "oh, 10# ought to do it". The looks I got!! LOL! But you know- we'd either eat all 10# at a meal, or hopefully (that WAS the idea) have some leftover for mashed potato soup or other "planned overs" the next day.

I did the same when I made things like "chicken fingers"- sliced chicken breast meat fried in a breading made from fresh bread crumbs and parmesan cheese... start with 5# of boneless chicken breasts. We'd usually manage to have leftovers, unless someone was particularly hungry. But the kids would eat them cold for snacks or breakfast.. sure beat Cheetos or whatever it is most modern kids eat!

They often had friends over.. we had a woods cabin where they'd have parties or overnights. And the other teens would raid the garden by flashlight and steal new potatoes- and roast them in the campfire for late night snacks. I may have corrupted a whole generation... "stealing" fresh vegetables from the garden! LOL!

Summerthyme

 

[ltd]

Worrier King,

.. even though the header says your a "veteran member" you weren't around in the good ol' days when this sig line was common here at TB2K and your post reminded me of it so here goes:

poor planning on your part does not require an emergency response on my part!

... so lets get to the gettin' and take care of this "oversight" and we'll let you slide this time, however we do remove one attaboy from your TB2K folder? .......

 

[dreamseeer]

dreamseer... do you have kids? Active, healthy kids?

Because I hate to break it to you, but mine were eating ALL homegrown, organic meats, vegetables, dairy and fruit...

"Treats" were home baked, mostly whole wheat.

I know what you're trying to say, but unfortunately, it's not that simple.

Summerthyme

You gotta lay off the fertilizer......you are putting too much fertilizer on them.

 

[hummer]

a tiny little thread drift.....

Splicerswife... it is truly a life and lifestyle that most people can't comprehend. And yes, despite eating eggs, ice cream, cheese, WHOLE milk (and that being raw milk from our tank, which always tests 4.0% fat or higher- "whole" milk in the store is 3.25% fat)... plenty of meat, including beef and pork, chicken, turkey (with the skin- ack! LOL!)... basically, whatever we wanted, but WHOLE foods... our "numbers" (blood pressure, heart rate, cholesterol, etc) are "perfect" according to the docs who we see very, very rarely.

Interestingly, I'm on a grazing e-list. And several of the older farmers on the list- who eat/ate pretty much the same way have been talking about seeing their doctors recently. These guys aren't quite as trim as they used to be- getting up there in years and have hired help doing more of the physical work now) but their doctors apparently freak out at their blood levels of cholesterol, etc. Extremely high levels of "the good stuff"... practically off the chart in several cases.

My mom would come to visit and help with meal prep, etc. She'd ask "how many potatoes should I bring up".. from the root cellar and I'd say "oh, 10# ought to do it". The looks I got!! LOL! But you know- we'd either eat all 10# at a meal, or hopefully (that WAS the idea) have some leftover for mashed potato soup or other "planned overs" the next day.

I did the same when I made things like "chicken fingers"- sliced chicken breast meat fried in a breading made from fresh bread crumbs and parmesan cheese... start with 5# of boneless chicken breasts. We'd usually manage to have leftovers, unless someone was particularly hungry. But the kids would eat them cold for snacks or breakfast.. sure beat Cheetos or whatever it is most modern kids eat!

They often had friends over.. we had a woods cabin where they'd have parties or overnights. And the other teens would raid the garden by flashlight and steal new potatoes- and roast them in the campfire for late night snacks. I may have corrupted a whole generation... "stealing" fresh vegetables from the garden! LOL!

Summerthyme

Summerthyme....when you mentioned "stealing" fresh vegetables from the garden".....brings back memories.....Growing up in the Twin Cities, we had a small garden on our corner lot but the tomatoes never ripened fast enough for me. Sooooooooo, after supper, when it got dark, I would sneak out of the house with the salt shaker, sneak down the dark alley to a neighbors house. Now, his garden always ripened before ours and his tomatoes were always better then ours. So I would be in stealth mode, sneak in there and pick a tomato or 3 and sneak back to our garage. In I would go, sitting myself down in a corner and I would procede to eat those tomatoes....shake a little salt on.....take a big bite....let the juice dribble down my chin.....shake another bit of salt on......take another bite.....let the juice dribble on down.......you know. What a wonderful delight. However, to this day I have the guilt of never owning up to that neighbor.....never offering to do a chore or 3 to repay him. hummer

 

[hummer]

growing kids........

FWIW.

Recently my 3 growing teen aged children have really started eating a lot more. For example: whereas 2 cans of veggies would feed 5 of us at a meal with leftovers, now we are eating 3 cans of veggies per a meal with no leftovers.

So with that develpment, what was 3 months of solid food prep planning and eating hearty, are now down to 2 months of cautious eating. Additionally, I won't be surprised if the kids appetite increased more to even to a fourth can of veggies, at which point what a week ago I thought was 3 months preps is suddenly realistically down to maybe 6 weeks, and then the menus will get a lot different.

Was buying the same amount of foods as always, but noticed the pantry inventories decreasing instead of being stable or increasing. DOH!

We do quite a bit of stuff in bulk, but we burn thru food so fast now, some bulk things (bags rice, beans) I don't pack and move into rotation, saving additional expense and time, (why pack it to open it a few weeks later) as a lot of the bulk food inventory are mylar packed with 02 absorbers and have years of life span yet.

I know quite a few people think they are going to reduce caloric intake WTSHTF, not a option here. Maybe other folks can learn form my oversight, and themselves are not considering INCREASED caloric intake, and its something other people have overlooked. I find it to be a glaring miscalculation in my plans.

This sure bit me in the ass unexpectedly, I obviously should of thought about it and realzied it sooner, thank heavens I still have time to remedy it but its certainly a urgent problem that nees to be started on today grocery shopping. I'm overly tempted with the JC Refuges deal which is pretty damn sweet, negotiating with the wife now who had put her foot down on my indescretionate survival spending.

Just something to think about, FWIW.

I see this with my grandkids. When the 4 oldest come to visit they seem to eat me out of house and home. They have become bottemless pits with hollow legs to boot! But, they do help me in the garden in the summer......and for that I am very thankful.......and very thankful that they do come and visit.

 

[Hansa44]

Years ago I worked as a cook at a huge dorm called Harrison Hall at Purdue University.

We had to go through extensive classes run by the state on sanitary conditions and what we were absolutely required to do and know.

We had an state health official and doctor who taught the lengthy class.

One statement I have never forgotten was being told......THERE IS NO 24 HR. FLU VIRUS!!! It is always food poisoning. There is no flu virus that activates in 8 hrs. or less leading to the severe case of the runs and vomiting and then usually within 24 hrs. your pretty much back to normal, although weak.

 

[Hansa44]

Sorry everyone............I posted this in the wrong thread. Eeeeeek!!!! I wondered where it disappeared to.

 

[FireDance]

I have a very thin, petite 15 yo girl. From time-to-time she turns into MEGA-eater. I am always flabbergasted at the amounts she can eat at these times. But then she slows down and finally returns to normal. Yep, if you have kids that are child-bearing age or kids that are coming into the teens, you'd better get ready. They're eating machines! Especially boys. Perhaps this is why the older we get the less we need - to make room for the machines!

 

[Annkor26]

I have 7 kids, with another one due this fall. They are 19, 16, 13, 11, 9, 6 and 4. Our grocery bills are truly scary. I buy EVERYTHING in bulk!

Laurie

Shouldn't that be Laurie the SuperMom?

 

[ferret]

...This sure bit me in the ass unexpectedly, I obviously should of thought about it and realzied it sooner, thank heavens I still have time to remedy it but its certainly a urgent problem that nees to be started on today grocery shopping. I'm overly tempted with the JC Refuges deal which is pretty damn sweet, negotiating with the wife now who had put her foot down on my indescretionate survival spending. .

Yeah, same problem here, but 4-legged instead of 2-legged. I had to make a run to the pet store to stock up on my cat and ferret food since I have more mouths to feed now. Since most pet food is made with CHICKEN, I figured that I should get extra before the supply hits the rotating device.