Presidental Poll #6 (last one): Who are you going to vote for?

Presidental Poll #6: Who are you going to vote for?

  • bamma the 'idiot-n-Chief'

    Votes: 10 3.5%
  • Romney the 'RINO'

    Votes: 203 71.2%
  • Grantbo the 'Benevolent Dictator'

    Votes: 25 8.8%
  • Someone else (added by popular request)

    Votes: 47 16.5%

  • Total voters
    285
  • Poll closed .

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
And because you and tens of millions of others feel that way, your criteria WILL NEVER HAPPEN.


And you and all your kinsmen are too dense to understand that VERY simple fact...
 

D_el

Veteran Member
It could be worse...
All those who realize that a Ron Paul vote would only dilute the chance of defeating Obama is counterproductive to saving the nation at this point.
I like Ron Paul and think he would do a good job but we also have to realize that, even given his election, he must also contend with the current Rhinos and Dims that would make it their life goal to do everything to thwart Paul's untiring efforts to re-establish our Republic to its former stature. We have already seen the results from Repugnants and Dimocrats toward a Ron Paul candidacy. Unfortunately the handwriting is on the wall for Ron at this time.
The first step is to get rid of Obama, followed by all the Rino and Dimocrat seatholders in Congress in subsequent elections. That won't happen overnight.


And because you and tens of millions of others feel that way, your criteria WILL NEVER HAPPEN.


And you and all your kinsmen are too dense to understand that VERY simple fact...
 

Ranger

Membership Revoked
No Such Thing as a "throw away vote" ?! Each decides

All:

Since as long as I can remember there's been an axiom in American
politics: "we don't so much vote FOR someone as we vote to throw
the current incumbent OUT". Sad thing is, neither of this year's corporate,
"mainstream" candidates is likely to return us to OUR nation's
founding principles. Instead we're likely to see OUR nation assimilated
into the new order of things, Bush 1's NWO. Sure, the incumbent might
take us there quicker, but both will take us there.

We witness daily thru the MSM an outcome based process that
inexorably "frames the debate" in dialectical fashion; namely
Dem vs Repub- lib vs conserv.

In actuality, if one "throws their vote away we all do" under the
current political paradigm. So, let us not fight with name calling,
let us engage in the fierce struggle for true freedom and liberty
as exemplified by our founding documents and struggles.
A fully informed electorate manifesting historical perspective is
best but no one "throws there vote away" in the context of
this current slate of "mainstream" candidates. Let us vote without
mutual condemnation knowing that "we're gonna pump out" a
government that's generally representative of who we are as
a people" these days and pray for the best, long term interest
of our nation cause the current choices "stink".

Should you be inclined, the article below written in 2003 deals
with reality and describes the situation we find ourselves in.

May the best "candidate" to wakeup our people win and please
vote cause no vote in reality is a throw away vote. We as Americans
are being prodded to "WAKEUP" and be our own champions;
co-participants & NOT merely spectators toward building our
future of freedom and liberty.

SOVIET by proper translation and definition means: RULE BY COUNCIL
Watch for "council" influence now and in the future because it constitutes the "New Democracy"; the "NEW FREEDOM" [as coined by Bush II]

Ranger:wvflg:

UNITED STATES-RUSSIAN MERGER: A DONE DEAL?
*
*
Charlotte Iserbyt
October 16, 2003
NewsWithViews.com
In 42 B.C. Cicero said "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not traitor, he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared."

The only thing Cicero didn't say relating to similarities between ancient and modern politics is "And the population votes for the traitors, enabling them to continue the treason."

Unfortunately, the deliberate dumbing down and creation of moral chaos in America has created a shortage of 21st Century Ciceros who could warn the American people regarding the present merger of the United States with Russia (former Soviet Union). " This betrayal has been carried out by our elected and unelected officials, including "phony conservatives in high places". These are the people Cicero refers to who "rot the soul of our nation, working secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of our cities, and infecting our body politic so that we can no longer resist."

This article is the result of one American's frustration over the refusal of one United States Senator to respond to a simple question:

Are two ex-KGB Generals (Chiefs) working as consultants in the Office of Information Awareness or any other U.S. government agency in the Bush Administration's so-called "war on terrorism"?

After waiting five months for a response I believe it is my duty as a citizen of this country to expose my Senator's dereliction of duty, and I call on the reader to request the same information of his elected officials and to get back to me with whatever response he receives.

The evidence of conspiracy is everywhere, but is never mentioned by the controlled major media or educational institutions. The inability of the average American to accept "conspiracy theory" is a result of the media's constant denial, over many, many years of the important place of conspiracy in world history and its constant labeling of those intelligent and well-informed Americans who discuss the role of conspiracy in history as "right wing extremist kooks." Americans unfortunately believe and are conditioned by what they hear over and over on the "controlled" establishment news. That is why I personally make it very clear whenever I speak on radio that "Yes, our nation has been subjected to a vast conspiracy, and anyone who believes otherwise has obviously not cracked a non-revisionist history book."

Probably the one key historical event which proves without a doubt the conspiratorial goal of the "traitors" to merge our country into an unconstitutional international socialist system (called for by Lenin and Stalin, with the financial backing of Wall Street, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and many multinational corporations) was the meeting Norman Dodd had with Rowan Gaither, the President of the Ford Foundation during Mr. Dodd's tenure as the Research Director for the Reece Committee in 1953. This Congressional committee was established to investigate the activities of the left-leaning foundations.

Mr. Gaither said:

"Mr. Dodd, all of us here at the policy making level of the foundation have at one time or another served in the OSS [the Office of Strategic Services, the forerunner of the CIA] or the European Economic Administration, operating under directives from the White House. We operate under those same directives...The substance of the directives under which we operate is that we shall use our grant making power to so alter life in the United States that we can be comfortably merged with the Soviet Union."

[President Eisenhower was the first President to sign agreements in 1958, at the peak of the Cold War, with the Soviet Union. These agreements related to education, space, the arts, medicine, etc.]

Stunned, Dodd finally replied "Why don't you tell the American people what you just told me and you could save the taxpayers thousands of dollars set aside for this investigation?" Gaither responded, "Mr. Dodd, we wouldn't think of doing that."

Gaither's response is in itself proof that a conspiracy existed at that time. Subsequent events prove that it continues to exist to this day!

In order to accomplish such a merger which is in effect the international system we see being implemented today: New World Order/world government through the creation of world economic regions, e.g. the European Union, certain conspiratorial actions had to be taken over a long period of time using what I refer to as "The Four- Prong, (Devil's) Fork":

(1) gradualism called for by the Fabian socialists, which calls for the making of controversial changes over long periods of time so people don't recognize what is happening; (2) semantic deception (use of traditional-sounding labels to sugar-coat evil intentions and programs); (3) endless supply of taxpayers' hard-earned money; and (4) use of the Hegelian dialectic (the deliberate creation of problems: poverty, wars, depression, etc. to induce concern/panic amongst the population in order to get the public to accept, often at the polls, the pre-determined freedom-destroying sugar-coated solution which it would never have accepted had the problem not been deliberately created.

The average voter, after having been heavily conditioned over many years by the media and highly- trained "change agents" in his communities and schools to think and vote a certain way, does so willingly, and walks away from the polls with a smile on his face, not knowing he just lost his wallet or even more important, his constitutionally-guaranteed freedoms.

Cicero's "traitors" in and out of Congress, represented by both Republican and Democratic Party leadership, have accomplished their goals without a hitch since the population has been exquisitely dumbed down and conditioned by the education establishment and the "controlled" media to accept these socialist goals as "normal."

A few examples, out of many hundreds I could cite, follow, which prove that the American people have been targeted, conditioned and victimized (at an accelerated pace since 9/11) in order to bring this great nation under international control/law, outside of our Constitution and Bill of Rights, thus destroying our political, economic and moral/social foundations and freedom.

1. In 1934 "Conclusions and Recommendations for the Social Studies", funded by the Carnegie Corporation of New York and compiled by the American Historical Association was published. Professor Harold Laski, a philosopher of British socialism, said of this report: "At bottom, and stripped of its carefully neutral phrases, the Report is an educational program for a Socialist America." The Report stated in part: "The Commission could not limit itself to a survey of textbooks, curricula, methods of instruction, and schemes of examination, but was impelled to consider the condition and prospects of the American people as a part of Western Civilization merging into a world order....Cumulative evidence supports the conclusion that in the United States as in other countries, the age of laissez faire in economy and government is closing and a new age of collectivism is emerging...Organized public education in the United States, much more than ever before, is now compelled, if it is to fulfill its social obligations, to adjust its objectives, its curriculum, its methods of instruction, and its administrative procedures to the requirements of the emerging integrated order....If the school is to justify its maintenance and assume its responsibilities, it must recognize the new order and proceed to equip the rising generation to cooperate effectively in the increasingly interdependent society and to live rationally and well within its limitations and possibilities."

2. On September 26, 1961, President John F. Kennedy signed the Arms Control and Disarmament Act with the Soviet Union, referred to as Public Law 87-297 and State Department Publication 7277 "Freedom From War: The United States Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World" which states in part:

"The manufacture of armaments (including personal firearms, ed) would be prohibited except for those of agreed types and quantities to be used by the U.N. Peace Force and those required to maintain internal order. All other armaments would be destroyed or converted to peaceful purposes."

"The disbanding of all national armed forces and the prohibition of their reestablishment in any form whatsoever other than those required to preserve internal order and for contributions to a United Nations Peace Force." (The U.S. presence in Iraq and elsewhere has nothing to do with national security interests. It is very clearly part of the Act referred to above.) The creation of the Department of Homeland Security, an Agency, is called for in State Department Publication 7277, page 3 when it sets forth objectives which carry out 7277's objectives. The Program also provides for an internal order system (a military government) within the emasculated nation while global control systems are instituted over its "homeland". During this transition period the nation is taken from a position of sovereignty into full blown global government communitarian management."

You may ask how such an Act managed to pass and remain the law of the land when we have members of Congress who have taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States of America? Most shocking of all, in this regard, is the record for all to see of those so-called conservative Republicans who on October 12, 1989, voted in favor of Public Law 101-216, a vote to support P.L. 87-297 (above 1961 Act). This is a clear-cut violation of their oath of office. Elimination of the nation's common defense destroys the sovereignty of the nation and obsoletes its Constitution! Those who voted for the 1989 version of P.L. 87-297 voted to continue financing the giving away of our armed forces to the United Nations. There were 400 yes votes, 11 nay votes and 21 not voting. Please contact Bernadine Smith, Second Amendment Committee at 559-584-5209 or 582-8534 to obtain her informative packet on this subject and to find out if your Congressman voted yes to this give away of our sovereignty. You may be surprised.

3. Presidents Reagan and Gorbachev signed education agreements in 1985 at the same time the Carnegie Corporation of New York signed even more extensive agreements with the Soviet Academy of Science. These agreements accelerated the merger of the two education systems, changing our education system from one focused on academics and individual upward mobility to one focused on quotas for certain jobs requiring work force training (performance/outcomes- based) for a planned international socialist economy. This failed socialist economic system which calls for communist "free trade" as well, is being implemented right now, under our very noses. This failed system is of benefit to a very small percent of the world's population known as "the elite" which benefits from socialist subsidies and the elimination of competition. What we are looking at in the United States today is the redistribution of wealth as well as the redistribution of brains, and nobody, not even a rocket scientist, seems to understand what is going on.

4. The Republican Party invited former Soviet President Gorbachev to be the keynote speaker at a dinner to raise money for Republican candidates.

5. Our government turned over the nation's number one military installation, The Presidio, in San Francisco, California to former Soviet President Gorbachev for his New Age environmental/ecological activities.

6. The New American, June 17, 2002, carried a news item entitled "Bush's Tribute to the New European 'Soviet" which reads:

"During a visit to London in March 23, 2000, former Soviet dictator Mikhail Gorbachev, referred to the emerging European Union (EU) as 'the new European Soviet.' During his address to the German Bundestag last month, President Bush described the EU as a 'house of freedom--its doors open to all of Europe's people, its windows looking out to global challenges beyond.' Mr. Bush discussed at length the EU's role in the accelerating convergence of the United States and the former Soviet Union. 'Another mission we share is to encourage the Russian people to find their future in Europe, and with America,' continued the president. 'A new Russian-American partnership is being forged...A Russian colonel now works on the staff of U.S. Army General Tommy Franks, commander of the war in Afghanistan.' Insisting that 'America and Europe must throw off old suspicions and realize our common interests with Russia,' the President proudly noted that following his summit in Moscow, he and heads of state from other NATO countries would travel to Rome to 'meet as equal partners with President Putin at the creation of the NATO-Russia council. The council gives us an opportunity to build common security against common threats.'"

7. The New American, in the same June 17, 2002 issue carried a second news item entitled "Disarmament Love Fest in Moscow" which read:

"Proclaiming a desire 'to establish a genuine partnership based on the principles of mutual security, cooperation, trust, openness, and predictability, President George Bush and Vladimir Putin of Russia, on May 24th, signed what the Associated Press called 'the biggest arms-reduction treaty in history.' According to President Bush, the treaty-signing ceremony 'ended a long chapter of confrontation and opened up an entirely new relationship between our countries.'

"Putin, the ex-KGB boss, concurred. 'Together, we will counteract global threats and challenges,' Putin said. 'We're going to form a stable world order in the interests of our peoples and our countries.' Dubbed the Treaty of Moscow, the new pact commits Russia and the U.S. to reduce their strategic nuclear arsenals to 2,200 warheads each by December 31, 2002. In addition to the treaty, Bush and Putin signed an eight-page agreement pledging U.S.-Russian cooperation on economic matters, the Middle East peace process, nuclear proliferation and missile defense, and the war against terrorism.'"

(Ed note: The aforementioned quote is interesting in light of the following information reported by the EUobserver.com,4/10/03 (ten months after the Bush/Putin Love Fest) entitled "NATO Prompts Russian Nuclear Rethink" by Richard Carter. This quote describes the diabolical dialectic in action: "A strategy document published yesterday by the Russian defense department said that the former Superpower would be forced to reconsider its military restructuring if NATO continues to exist as a military alliance with an offensive military doctrine'. This will also affect Russia's nuclear strategy. In a statement reminiscent of the Cold War, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that a new generation of nuclear weapons - with multiple warheads and long-range capabilities - would replace Russia's old stock. However, Mr. Putin gave no timeframe for the deployment of these missiles. According to the FTD, Mr. Putin said, 'These are...terrible missiles, of which we have dozens with several hundred warheads. These weapons are even now ready for use.'")

The average American when confronted with world news that has Putin and Bush embracing one another one year and quarreling/threatening to target one another with missiles the next year, sinks into a state of "cognitive dissonance" whereby he is unable to make sense of anything or to carry on an intelligent conversation about the subject at hand, reacting to one's comment with nothing more than a "glazed expression." This back and forth "planned" agenda is, of course, a brilliant psychological strategy, part of the dialectic, and highly effective in keeping the "sheeple" in line.

When, as a result, none of the conditioned "sheeple" utter a peep over such pre and post-9/11 actions, the "traitors" know that it's "safe" to take actions such as naming Henry Kissinger, a Soviet agent, to lead an investigation of 9/11... if ever there was a fox overseeing the hen house! (Please refer to Iserbyt article, "Kissinger Out of the Closet" for documentation regarding Kissinger being a Soviet agent.) Only after a few unconditioned persons had the courage to register complaints over this outrageous appointment, did Kissinger decline the position citing possible conflicts of interest.

But the "merger agenda" would continue at an even faster pace.

Plans have been in the works since 1997 to bring on board ex-KGB agents to work at the Center for Counterintelligence and Security Studies, http://www.cicentre.com a consulting service in Alexandria, Virginia. The New York Times, in an article dated 8/24/03 entitled "Former Top Russian Spy Pledges Allegiance" stated that the above Center "provides expertise and advice in counterintelligence, counterterrorism and security for the government (repeat government, ed) and companies."

The hiring of these ex-KGB agents appears to be a result of FBI/KGB collaboration. The New American, July 30, 2001 discussed such collaboration in a news item entitled "Community Policing, East and West." It said:

"Among Louis Freeh's supposedly commendable achievements as FBI director, according to Robert S. Bennett, (brother of William Bennett, former Secretary of Education, ed) was the realization of his vision of a 'global FBI.' It was in pursuit of that vision that Freeh traveled to Moscow in 1994, and--on the fourth of July--signed a agreement creating a framework for FBI/KGB collaboration. 'We can honestly say that our two nations have more in common than ever before,' declared Freeh at the ceremony, which took place after a tour of the KGB's Lubyanka Square headquarters. 'We are united in purpose and in spirit.'"

This was not the first collaboration in police work as a result of agreements signed with the Soviet Union. The New York Times in an article dated 6/19/91 entitled "Week in the Subway as Cultural Exchange" pointed out some of the interesting activities resulting from the exchanges signed between President Reagan and Gorbachev. An excerpt follows:

"A hapless fare-beater was arrested today in the Chambers Street subway station, and he was suddenly surrounded by six Moscow police officers. This was not a scene out of a Cold War nightmare. The Soviets were not taking over the United States. This was a cultural exchange."

According to the above-mentioned New York Times article entitled "Former Top Russian Spy Pledges New Allegiance", 8/24/03, Oleg Kalugin, a retired KGB general and son of a member of Stalin's secret police, whom a former CIA chief called 'the smoothest guy I've seen in years' and who is now a new United States citizen, is one of those retired KGB generals working as a consultant at the Centre for Counterintelligence and Security Studies.

The New York Times article also says, and this is interesting in light of the U.S.-Soviet education exchange agreements which have been going on since President Eisenhower signed the first one in 1958, "Kalugin's relationship with America began in the late 1950's, when Communist officials noticed his skill with languages. He was a K.G.B. trainee when he was sent to Columbia University as an exchange student. The New York Times goes on to reveal the following: "He was one of the generals of the cold war, a K.G.B. leader who did his best to undermine Western capitalism by recruiting Americans to work for Moscow. His greatest recruiting coup was probably John A. Walker, Jr., a Navy warrant officer who offered his services while Mr. Kalugin was stationed in Washington in 1966. Mr. Kalugin said in a 1991 interview that Mr. Walker was paid more than $1 million before the FBI caught him in 1985...In recruiting John Walker, Mr Kalugin had a chance to tip the cold war balance." (And we "sheeple" trust this new United States citizen to promote what is in our nation's best interest?)

It was Kalugin, a frequent TV commentator and regular guest on Fox News, who stirred up a hornet's nest last spring by spilling the beans (to an unnamed intelligence agent) on a spy cruise (go to http://www.cicentre.com and click on SpyTrek) regarding his associates, ex-K.G.B. Chiefs Primakov (also former President of Russia and close associate/advisor to Saddam Hussein who visited with Saddam in February of this year, prior to the war in Iraq) and General Alexander Karpov working for recently retired Admiral Poindexter's Office of Information Awareness which is attached to the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency (DARPA), an agency of the U.S. Department of Defense responsible for the development of new technology by the military.

This information is covered in detail in an article in the April 2003 issue of Soviet Analyst (www.sovietanalyst.com) entitled "Architect of Soviet Middle East Terror to 'Advise' Washington"...Convergence Acquires New Meaning" by Christopher Story, a highly respected researcher and author with offices in London and New York City. The story was also covered in the May 15, 2003 issue of The Howard Phillips Issues and Strategy Bulletin in an entry entitled "GWB Names Kremlin Spymaster Primakov as Consultant to U.S. Homeland Security Team". Please see Iserbyt's two articles on this subject at www.NewsWithViews.com: "Former KGB Heads to Help Spy on Americans" 4/24/03 and "Former USSR/Russian Premier to Work for Homeland Security" 4/22/03, both of which included information taken from an article in American Free Press entitled "Get Ready for the Sovietization of America", 4/21/03 by Al Martin, www.almartinraw.com, a former intelligence agent. Al Martin's information can also be traced to the same important source, Oleg Kalugin.

Only when I was challenged by a NewsWithViews reader to provide more complete documentation for my articles did I go to my Senator from Maine, Olympia Snowe, a liberal Republican, whose ties to the international establishment are very close. My multiple efforts, over a period of five months, to obtain a simple "yes" or "no" answer from Senator Snowe as to whether the Bush Administration had in fact hired these two-ex K.G.B. Chiefs to consult with U.S. officials on the design for an "internal passport" (carte identite) for Americans, were unsuccessful. I have emailed her seven times, called her eight times, and written her (certified mail) once including pertinent articles and documents.

I am therefore unable to provide the documentation requested of me. However, I, personally, am assuming that the Kalugin information re Primakov and Karpov is correct since what would Senator Snowe have to lose by telling me the information was not true, if indeed it was not true? She evidently hopes I will go away and that this story will fade into oblivion since the Congress has so-called defunded DARPA's Office of Information Awareness due to concerns on Capitol Hill regarding the constitutionality of sections in The Patriot Act and privacy-invading activities being developed at DARPA's Office of Information Awareness. Don't hold your breath for the cessation of the unconstitutional projects presently under way to track every movement of every single American. The projects have simply been shifted to another unnamed office with an alphabet soup title.

Senator Snowe's refusal to answer a constituent is outrageous. Comments from her staff may sound familiar to the reader: "She is out of town; she is very busy; it takes two months for her to receive letters due to the Anthrax scare...you should perhaps email her", which I had done eight times! When trying to reach her staff member who deals with the issue of terrorism, Homeland Security, etc. I was told each time I called that he was in a meeting. When I left a message on voice mail three times and asked to be called back I never received a return call. In order to have additional proof of what I had turned over to her office I taped my last phone message which includes most of the information in this article.

I have finally given up calling Senator Snowe's office.

Is this what representative government is all about? All questions from constituents are important. However, it seems that questions related to the hiring of very, very important ex-KGB Chiefs to consult on matters of internal and national security are irrelevant to those walking the marble halls of Congress, those who "are undermining the pillars of the city" according to Cicero in 42 B.C.

(What if General Eisenhower after World War II had hired Gestapo Chief Heinrich Himmler to advise the U.S. Government on a matter as sensitive as internal passports (identity cards) to control freedom of travel within the United States? Think about that one!!!!!!)

What is wrong in our nation? Is there anything our government might do which might upset the population enough that our elected officials would feel the heat and the need to respond? (How pathetic that the only time Congress has reacted almost overnight to its constituents' complaints was recently when it passed the law to restrict those pesty telemarketing calls we all receive at dinner time. How pathetic that Americans get more upset over those dinnertime calls made by private companies than they do over ex-KGB agents designing internal passports [identity cards] for our government which will restrict their freedom of movement, travel plans, and all sorts of other activities.)

As it presently stands, our elected officials, most of whom support passage of unconstitutional laws and actions, including the Patriot Act, etc. are the equivalent of what Cicero described so well. If they are not traitors, what exactly are they?

[A funny side to this story: About twenty years ago when Senator Snowe was a member of the House of Representatives her office was bugged by the K.G.B.! She had to move out for a week or so to let the security people debug it. I mentioned this to her in an email in an unsuccessful attempt to get her to react due to her personal encounter with our new KGB friends.]

Of all the books, documents, videos, audiocassettes, etc. available to alert Americans to the serious situation facing this nation today, there is none more powerful than the interview that Edward Griffin, www.realityzone.com gave the great patriot, Norman Dodd, in the early eighties, a few years before he passed away. It's available on audio and video. To order, call: 1-800-595-6596

© 2003 Charlotte T. Iserbyt -*All Rights Reserved

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*
Charlotte Iserbyt is the consummate whistleblower! Iserbyt served as Senior Policy Advisor in the Office of Educational Research and Improvement (OERI), U.S. Department of Education, during the first Reagan Administration, where she first blew the whistle on a major technology initiative which would control curriculum in America's classrooms. Iserbyt is a former school board director in Camden, Maine and was co-founder and research analyst of Guardians of Education for Maine (GEM) from 1978 to 2000. She has also served in the American Red Cross on Guam and Japan during the Korean War, and in the United States Foreign Service in Belgium and in the Republic of South Africa.

Iserbyt is a speaker and writer, best known for her 1985 booklet Back to Basics Reform or OBE: Skinnerian International Curriculum and her 1989 pamphlet Soviets in the Classroom: America's Latest Education Fad which* covered the details of the U.S.-Soviet and Carnegie-Soviet Education Agreements which remain in effect to this day. She is a freelance writer and has had articles published in Human Events, The Washington Times, The Bangor Daily News, and included in the record of Congressional hearings. Website: www.deliberatedumbingdown.com * E-Mail: dumbdown@blazenetme.net*
 
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Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
Once again I'm reduced to voting for the lesser of evils.
Romney will get my vote until a real Constitutional candidate that can win enters the race.

There's the problem, isn't it?

They can't win if you don't vote for them...
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
It could be worse...
All those who realize that a Ron Paul vote would only dilute the chance of defeating Obama is counterproductive to saving the nation at this point.
I like Ron Paul and think he would do a good job but we also have to realize that, even given his election, he must also contend with the current Rhinos and Dims that would make it their life goal to do everything to thwart Paul's untiring efforts to re-establish our Republic to its former stature. We have already seen the results from Repugnants and Dimocrats toward a Ron Paul candidacy. Unfortunately the handwriting is on the wall for Ron at this time.
The first step is to get rid of Obama, followed by all the Rino and Dimocrat seatholders in Congress in subsequent elections. That won't happen overnight.

At this point, I am 100% in the George Carlin camp.

 

Gercarson

Veteran Member
There's the problem, isn't it?

They can't win if you don't vote for them...

Well, yes - I guess that IS the problem and NO they can't win if you don't vote for them. If you don't vote for "them" it's a vote for their opponent - no matter which way you slice it.
 

Ranger

Membership Revoked
Yup, there's a problem

Ninety eight percent of the adults in this country are decent, hardworking, honest Americans. It's the other lousy two percent that get all the publicity. But then, we elected them.

Lily Tomlin

Ranger :-)
 

Ranger

Membership Revoked
The late Adlai Stevenson:

"It seems to me that government is like a pump, and what it pumps up is just what we are, a fair sample of the intellect, the ethics and the morals of the people, no better, no worse."

"It's hard to lead a cavalry charge if you think you look funny on a horse."

Ranger
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
Throwing away a vote with a write in or 3rd party.

Since prior to our government selected candidates, about 80% of the military supported and have contributed to the Ron Paul campaign.

Are they throwing away their votes?

How many RINO's would stand down an argument to an active duty military person openly wishing to vote for Ron Paul? Would you continue your tirade about how stupid they are, walk off, or congratulate them for making their own choice due to the freedoms they fight for us?

What would your stance be against an Active Military member not given the opportunity to vote while deployed overseas if they wanted to vote for Ron Paul?

How many wasted vote RINO's will actually comment on any of these questions?
 

NC Susan

Deceased
:soap:We are all trying to get the economy saved, jobs, an honest person to tell people the truth. In good times is when you can change the system to a 3 party system, you can make the terms 6 yrs and not 2 four years and you can change the electoral system, we all agree changes are needed. But this year it really is more important to get Obama out than to make a point about the party system. Every vote counts, please look at the big picture, don't waste a vote for a 3rd party that would allow Obama to be relected, when the 3rd party candidates don't have a chance of getting elected. Most all of us are not thrilled with Romney, but as many said they would vote for Mickey Mouse if they could get Obama out, we are looking at the big picture for hope to save our ecomonoy & America, we are not trying to change a party system, we need more help now than a 3rd party. I appreciate your right to vote for who ever you think is the best person for the job, it looks like some are interested on a 3rd party system change instead of the person their voting for helping the economy. Stepping down from my soap box.

It took about 14 years for the Constitution to be written. In that amount of time, i figure the authors thought of every situation, except our shadow CIA government controllers, so no.......i would not recommend changing a word of the Constitution or a letter of any law of any electoral process. What i would recommend is that all support the most honest, fiscally conservative candidate that we can find in every precinct, city, State. The Feds are so corrupted that only the States Rights and 10th Amendment centers can fix 'them'. As for most citizens, we are the hard working moral and silent majority. And most of us actually are Libertarian/Tea Party people. The Democrats and Republicans have gone to far protecting their parties and have forgotten about the WeThePeople .

ALSO remember there are only 536 of them, but 300million of us, and most of us are very angry
 

Gercarson

Veteran Member
Throwing away a vote with a write in or 3rd party.

Since prior to our government selected candidates, about 80% of the military supported and have contributed to the Ron Paul campaign.

Are they throwing away their votes?

How many RINO's would stand down an argument to an active duty military person openly wishing to vote for Ron Paul? Would you continue your tirade about how stupid they are, walk off, or congratulate them for making their own choice due to the freedoms they fight for us?

What would your stance be against an Active Military member not given the opportunity to vote while deployed overseas if they wanted to vote for Ron Paul?

How many wasted vote RINO's will actually comment on any of these questions?

I say they vote their conscious like everybody else. Opinions are like a$$holes and we all have one - what I can't understand is why the military would side with the government in case of a posse comitatus situation and they ALL say they will.
 

Gercarson

Veteran Member
It took about 14 years for the Constitution to be written. In that amount of time, i figure the authors thought of every situation, except our shadow CIA government controllers, so no.......i would not recommend changing a word of the Constitution or a letter of any law of any electoral process. What i would recommend is that all support the most honest, fiscally conservative candidate that we can find in every precinct, city, State. The Feds are so corrupted that only the States Rights and 10th Amendment centers can fix 'them'. As for most citizens, we are the hard working moral and silent majority. And most of us actually are Libertarian/Tea Party people. The Democrats and Republicans have gone to far protecting their parties and have forgotten about the WeThePeople .

ALSO remember there are only 536 of them, but 300million of us, and most of us are very angry

And yet, we let the 536 lead the 300 million around like we're brain dead. Go figure.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
I say they vote their conscious like everybody else. Opinions are like a$$holes and we all have one - what I can't understand is why the military would side with the government in case of a posse comitatus situation and they ALL say they will.

"All" is a broad brush to paint with...

I know at least 3% wouldn't...

vote_for_III_Arms.jpg
 

Ranger

Membership Revoked
In other words: "managed dependents". True leaders need
NOT apply! It's because: leaders communicate transparently
and lead by example. "Managers" are like elephants, they don't
tell (inform) the mice (sheep-) where they are going to step
next.". Your vote is between you and G*d! I don't even ask
my wife who she voted FOR. I respect (spectare') her decision.
I know she takes a second look. "nuff said"

The time for "talking" is late and nearly over.
The vote is upon us shortly. May the outcome that best
awakens We The People transpire!

Trans (trans-
prefix meaning "across, beyond, to go beyond," from L. trans-, from prep. trans "across, over, beyond," probably originally prp. of a verb *trare-, meaning "to cross" (see through).

Spire ( breathe )

Faith Hill's, Breathe (one YouTube link). We, as Americans have
been so blessed!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VjpwL3OGHCE



Ranger
 
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I'll vote for my local and state stuff, but I'm leaving the presidential section blank. Not that it matters, because South Dakota always goes republican.
 
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TerryK

TB Fanatic
Throwing away a vote with a write in or 3rd party.

Since prior to our government selected candidates, about 80% of the military supported and have contributed to the Ron Paul campaign.
Are they throwing away their votes?
How many RINO's would stand down an argument to an active duty military person openly wishing to vote for Ron Paul? Would you continue your tirade about how stupid they are, walk off, or congratulate them for making their own choice due to the freedoms they fight for us?
What would your stance be against an Active Military member not given the opportunity to vote while deployed overseas if they wanted to vote for Ron Paul?
How many wasted vote RINO's will actually comment on any of these questions?

You must get your stats from the daily paul.
80% of the military does not support Ron Paul. His support is just a little better than in the average population. If you correct for age, it is exactly the same as young people in the general population.
Also your statistic that 80% of the military contributed to Ron Paul is bogus. Most of the military do not contribute to any political figure.
Go on any base and talk to people. It might open your eyes.
 
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TerryK

TB Fanatic
All of you that are determined to vote for a libertarian, write in Ron Paul, or not vote at all, and are so busy belittling anyone who dares vote for Romney, need to ask yourself why none of your choices has a snowballs chance in hell of winning an election.
I would ask you, what have you done to build up a valid third party?
How much money have you contributed?
How many meetings did you attend?
How many times did you go door to door trying to get support?
Just exactly what have you done to build a viable third party that could actually have a chance at winning anything?
Why haven't you started at the grass roots level, gotten people elected locally, and then statewide?
Why in Gods name would you expect anyone to pay attention to you and vote the way you do when you have done none of these things?

I've had 3 Republican candidates for state legislature and 2 Democrats, (the actual condidate not Joe Blow) knock on my door and ask for my vote.
I have had over a dozen Republican and Democrat campaign workers either knock on my door or stop and talk to me when I'm working in my yard.

You know what? I have never had a Ron Paul worker or a libertarian worker stop at my door. NOT ONE.
And that is the reason voting for Ron Paul or Gary Johnson is the same as voting for Mickey Mouse.

Neither actually tries to build a party that has a realistic chance of winning on a national level.

Neither wants to pay their dues by geting a base of elected local and state offices.

Ask yourself why Ron Paul ran and served in congress as a Republican all these years?

I like Ron Pauls and Gary Johnsons ideas, especially the economic ones, but if either were to become president they would be a disaster. They would have hardly anybody on either side of the the aisle to work with them.
Talk to me about a libertarian president when there are a few dozen libertarian congressmen and senators already in place so he has someone to work with.
Come talk to me when that third party can raise the better part of a billion bucks for the presidential campaign, because thats what it takes to run the ads, print the signs and get a president elected now days. Hell no, it's not right, but that's reality. You third party people got to stop ignoring reality.
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
You must get your stats from the daily paul.
80% of the military does not support Ron Paul. His support is just a little better than in the average population. If you correct for age, it is exactly the same as young people in the general population.
Also your statistic that 80% of the military contributed to Ron Paul is bogus. Most of the military do not contribute to any political figure.
Go on any base and talk to people. It might open your eyes.

Ok. I'll take your statistic what ever that may be. But just to answer my question above. How would you treat an active duty military either stateside or overseas that chooses a third party or write-in candidate?

And I choose the daily Paul anyday over the daily RINO.
 

Harbinger

Veteran Member
So, voting is throwing away your vote...hmmmmm

I wonder... looking back if any one thinks those voting for the incumbent Field Marshal Hindenburg, supported by pro-republican party instead of the German National People's Party were really throwing away their vote? I wonder how many; if they could go back in time, would actually change their vote from the German National People's party? I wonder how many simply gave up or voted third party knowing how divided there country was.....because it was a "broken system".

Hind sight is 20/20....too bad we have Alzheimer!
 

Chair Warmer

Membership Revoked
Throwing away a vote with a write in or 3rd party.

Since prior to our government selected candidates, about 80% of the military supported and have contributed to the Ron Paul campaign.

Are they throwing away their votes?

How many RINO's would stand down an argument to an active duty military person openly wishing to vote for Ron Paul? Would you continue your tirade about how stupid they are, walk off, or congratulate them for making their own choice due to the freedoms they fight for us?

What would your stance be against an Active Military member not given the opportunity to vote while deployed overseas if they wanted to vote for Ron Paul?

How many wasted vote RINO's will actually comment on any of these questions?

There aren't enough Ron Paul supporters to give him a win for Presidency because he was weeded out during the Primaries.

We know the majority of voters WILL BE voting for Zero or Moronmy.

While third party voters' voices will be heard through their votes, it will not have any real effect towards the outcome of the actual election winner, who will be either Obama or Romney.

Voting for Ron Paul will not make a difference.

Ron Paul has already lost.


.
 
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rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
There aren't enough Ron Paul supporters to give him a win for Presidency because he was weeded out during the Primaries.

We know the majority of voters WILL BE voting for Zero or Moronmy.

While third party voters' voices will be heard through their votes, it will not have any real effect towards the outcome of the actual election winner, who will be either Obama or Romney.

Voting for Ron Paul will not make a difference.

Ron Paul has already lost.


.

Well I've got to agree with everything you say.

But I did get the general answer I was searching for regarding an Active Military voting voice for a write in or 3rd party vote. Silence.
 
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