[PREPS] Get off the grid!//THREAD STARTED 8/14/03

Ought Six

Ought Six

Membership Revoked
With the power outage in the northeast & Canada, it seems like a good time for everyone to post their alternate electrical power source and elctricity-free equipment links. So let's see them, folks!

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HomePower Magazine:

http://www.homepower.com/
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OtherPower:

http://www.otherpower.com/
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Wind & Sun library:

http://www.windsun.com/Library_Index.htm
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Generator FAQ:

http://www.bagelhole.org/drafts/Generator_FAQ.htm
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Battery FAQ:

http://www.4unique.com/battery/battery_tutorial.htm
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PicoTurbine (homebuilt wind generators, solar, etc.):

http://www.picoturbine.com/projectlist.htm
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Cool Home Brewed Equipment:

http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/equipment.htm

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Electricity-free refrigeration:

http://www.fridge.lionheart.net/
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Lehman's {non-electric equipment):

http://www.lehmans.com/index.jsp
 
C

CarolynA

Veteran Member
Those of us who live in the country are SOOOOO lucky! Those poor folks who, for one reason or the other, live in large cities are at such a disadvantage. They CAN"T go off the grid. They just don't have a lot of options. Forget the candles, what the heck to folks who live in highrises, with no windows that open, do for AIR!
I just can't imagine. I've been without power for days at a time due to snow here in the Sierras. Other than a little cabin fever, it's business as usual. Other than no computer & TV, I barely notice it. It just has to be a nighmare for city dwellers. Of course, that's the main reason I'm NOT a city dweller! Actually, I'm not even a city visitor!!
 
P

Prairie Lady

Inactive
I've lived without electricity for a year. You just learn a different way of life. It usually means being careful with water usage too.

NYC is NOT the place to be without power, but then again, if folks won't listen to a wakeup call, then it's their choice to live as they do when tshtf.

When we try to talk to our system dependent"disadvantaged" friends and family what do they do??? They sling insults about how y2k didn't happen so therefore, WE are the crazy ones!

If my power goes down, it's NO BIG DEAL other than not being able to feed my internet addiction.
If we loose power for months on end due to what ever, I'll just turn my freezer into yet another worm bed, make more compost and grow a bigger garden so I can can some more! I"ll dry my meat, smoke my meat, can my meat...

No gas?? ok...I'll borrow my son in law's horse. we can rig up a wagon if need be.

I guess maybe being out here in the boonies has its advantages :)

pl
oh well...
 
G

ghostdog

Inactive
I lived for 7 years with out electricity or running water and it is not a big deal at all for normally healthy people. Ity gets a little tougher for the elderly/infirm. We look after my 85 year old dad. I think with out running water the job with him would probably quadruple at least.
 
T

Todd

Inactive
Cascading Cross Defaults

What's important for folks to recognize is that this typifies how cascading cross defaults can trash anything in a wink. It was power this time but it could be gasoline, banks, stocks, et. al. the next time.

As for me, it is 3.6kW PV, 8kW gas generator, 23kW diesel generator, and the grid too (if it's working). Having power is obviously not a major concern for me.

Todd
 
theoutlands

theoutlands

Official Resister
PL - just goes to so you...you said "no gas?" and I thought "empty propane-tank." Didn't think vehicle until I finished the paragraph and was struggling to figure out how getting around by horse-cart would provide heat for cooking!! :D

Todd - you mean like the gasoline pipeline into Arizona? Yes, I agree completely!

Hagan's "In the Blink of an Eye" story is an excellent read, for those who have not yet done so. Visit "Members Stories" forum and expand the "show posts for last XX days" out to "the past year."
 
L

Live-Oak

Contributing Member
For a few days to a week (maybe even two) the only thing that I'd really regret not having electricity for is air conditioning.

It's not precisely vital, we got along without before the sixties and seventies, but August in the Deep South would go back to being a sweaty, sweaty time. The old style cracker homes built to make the most of natural cooling are few and far between now. Most homes are built with the idea of electrically powered cooling being used.

Heck, I could even learn (relearn, actually) to live without air conditioning if I had to. But when it rains nearly every day and the temperatures this year (on the days that it rains) hitting the high eighties to over ninety I can just feel my books and leather goods starting to mold and mildew and my metal tools starting to rust from the humidity.

Generating enough electric power to keep a few lights running and the radios on is fairly simple. Water can be had by non-electric means. Food preservation would simply revert to pre-refrigeration days. But air conditioning requires a serious generator which in turn requires a serious investment.

I can live without it if I have to, but I'm glad our power didn't go poof! :lol:

={Oak}-
 
T

Todd

Inactive
Live Oak,

Actually, you can run anything you want with a PV system. The only constraint aside from the sun is cost.

Because we have TOU (time of use) metering, we switch off the grid every day at noon and stay off until 6 or 7 PM. We run the AC, fridge, freezer, lights and even the electric hot water heater off of our PV system. The only time I have to be concerned about juice is if it looks like the well pump (2hp) will come on or if we want to use the electric range.

Todd
 
Anne in TN

Anne in TN

Deceased
Todd, what is a PV system?

Also, to those of you who have lived without electricity, could you explain how you did it in detail?

Anne
 
B

Brooks

Membership Revoked
The last power item I had to resolve (thanks to someone here) was how to keep my cat's meds cold. It is intended for supplies like insulin, but the wallets come in different sizes. Better than a powered refrigeration unit of some kind when it is the *only* need I have for refrigeration.

http://www.frio.us.com/

I had major problems caring for my Dad when I lost the hot water heater over a weekend and had to turn off water to the house for 2 days because the valve was leaking as well. It wasn't an issue of having enough stored water or ways to heat it and move it around. He was simply too frail mentally to adapt to washing up in a large bucket of heated water. The heater broke a few weeks before Dad passed away, and the trauma of 2 days without running water (and some other stuff going on at the time) actually set him back irreversibly. It really wasn't any more than a change in routine.
 
theoutlands

theoutlands

Official Resister
Ways we folks in the Deep South can survive w/o (or w/ much reduced) AC:

-dog-trot/cracker cabins - basically, the porch runs *through* the house, making a breezeway

-earth-sheltered/underground homes - man-made caves

-monolithic/concrete domes - another man-made cave

One person I know from here and other lists is building one in Texas and even without windows and doors installed reports a temperature drop of some 20* inside the dome shell. Power for a dehumidifier or a small window unit should be enough to keep it cool and could be obtained from a fairly modest home-power system.

- 10' ceilings - let the heat rise out of traffic areas
- large shade-trees to cover the house
- wrap-around porches that shade windows from direct sun
- Spanish siestas during the hotter part of the days

I'm sure there's some others that I can't think of offhand, as well.
 
Rex Jackson

Rex Jackson

Has No Life - Lives on TB
One of my new best friends...
The best for warning power going out in the night.

-Built in alarm sounds when electricity goes off and powerful (250 lumens) lamp turns on for temporary lighting.
-Lamp holds its charge for over two hours.
-Completely portable for multiple uses.
-Wall mount kit and 12V adapter for auto use included.
-Size: 15" L x 3" D x 3 1/2" H
-Shipping Weight: 5.5 lbs.

qcsupply_1741_37472189


http://www.qcsupply.net/qcsupply/60340.html
 
Last edited:
Rex Jackson

Rex Jackson

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Few dead links


Generators/Alternative Power .1 to 4 cylinder gas and diesel generators
http://www.generac-portables.com

http://www.dajosales.com/generators.html 401-732-4940

http://www.gopower.com/5kwkama.htm 305-695-6800

http://www.home-standby-generators.com

http://www.bowerspower.com 800-858-5881

http://www.gensetcentral.com 800-858-5881

http://www.genpropower.com 605-341-6160

http://www.coloradostandby.com 719-264-0020

http://www.powerpony.com 800-987-4484

http://www.directpower.com/engine_gen.htm 800-260-3792

http://www.southwestfastener.com 888-365-9709

http://www.coloradostandby.com

http://www.nooutage.com 410-286-3700

http://www.ipsi.net 800-959-4724


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Generator Hardware
http://www.louvers-dampers.com (louvers) 859-647-2299

http://www.microflexinc.com/products/trans_auto/auto.htm (flex exhaust)386-677-8100
 
G

gillmanNSF

Veteran Member
Unfortunately for apartment dwellers, there aren't too many choices, such as the link below. I like the idea, but where the heck am I going to use a submersible generator?

www.cetsolar.com/submersibles.htm

Other items at this site include portable PV systems, by Solar-Dynamics, for personal use and for powering larger items. The "Cub" would be ideal for powering small AC devices and the larger "Harvester" would power larger appliances. The harvester unit would easily fit on my fire escape outside my apartment window.

Our six-unit apartement complex aleady has solar on the roof for heating water. I suppose these can be converted for household use as well.

I keep a couple of camping stoves and a large supply of propane bottles for short-term emergencies as well as for camping.
 
R

Rman

Inactive
For those of us living in apartments, deep cycle batteries can be used as a backup power source. I personally have several batteries and used them during the recent outage. What you need:

One or more 12 volt deep cycle batteries hooked up in parallel.
Battery charger. I have a 15 amp car charger with automatic shutoff.
Float charger - A small charger which keeps your batteries topped off at all times.
Inverter - Converts DC to AC to power your appliances.
12 volt lights - I picked up a couple of 12V flourescent mechanic's lights.
Voltmeter - useful to make sure your batteries are charged and are not being overcharged.
 
theoutlands

theoutlands

Official Resister
Ok, I'm wanting to use white Christmas lights for 12vdc light-source. Someone explain to me what I need to look for in getting the right lights and what I need to do to them to set them up right.
 
Ought Six

Ought Six

Membership Revoked
Rm:

Deep-cycle batteries have issues with flammible/explosive hydrogen gas production while charging and potential acid leakage that I'd rather not deal with in an apartment closet. A better choice would be gel cells, like the ones they use in emergency light units in buildings. At a local surplus electronics store, I saw these 12v gel cells the size of a large car battery for $35/each. They are more efficient than deep cyycle batteries, and I would have bought several of them on the spot if I had the cash.
 
A

Aleph Null

Membership Revoked
OS: That'sa pretty cheap price for those batteries, but that would make me suspicious. Gel cells are "finicky" batteries that are easily damaged by overcharging, and are more limited in the rate at which they can be charged. They are also subject to damage if allowed to completely discharge. There could be a very good reason why they were so cheap.

For an apartment, the first thing you need to do is find out what the law is. However, I believe in most places you should be able to use Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries. These are the same basic idea as gel cells, but better; they are the type of batteries used in airplanes, boats, UPS systems etc. Sealed, spill-proof, low self-discharge, no-maintenance, etc.

See this Battery FAQ for lots of good info, including info on AGMs: http://www.wind-sun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

-A0-
 
S

spider

Inactive
home power

I've been off the grid since '89; i.e., 1989 y2k style.
I've been real happy to learn of power outages
days after the event. The only thing that is still
connecting me to the system is that in the winter
there is not enough sun and I have to fire up the
generator to make up the difference. Also I rely on
propane for cooking, washing machine and
refrigeration.
 
vulcan

vulcan

Inactive
Hi All,
Lots of good info & links here:)

Does anyone have a link for converting DC Permanant magnet motors to generators?

I have questions if a diode bridge is needed & voltage regulation
ideas. Thanks for any help.

I'm in the city, & used AGM batteries with a inverter to power the computer thru the blackout also:)

I'm in ther process of getting a 20 watt panel to speed up charging. I just have a 5 watt panel now. I really wanted a 50 watt panel, But size & storability is a concern for me. I also have a small generator as a backup. I'm in the city, But live in a duplex apt. with a yard . I 'm able to use some of the country techniques for energy.

I sure envy the country folk here:D
 
hitssquad

hitssquad

Inactive
Solar panels are far more expensive now than they were in 2003, CFI. The appropriate time for resurrecting this thread might be 2010 or so.
 
O

Oldotaku

Veteran Member
SCARC Field Day 2005

This has pictures of my portable battery pack (#4 from the top), my portable solar array (#5), and (if you can stomach it) Yours Truly is at #7. Looks like I've stomached way too much in my time :lol:

Oldotaku (AKA N0RWW)

(added) Oh, we're such handsome gents, aren't we Dean (who appears in #3 and #16)
 
alpha

alpha

Veteran Member
hitssquad said:
Solar panels are far more expensive now than they were in 2003, CFI. The appropriate time for resurrecting this thread might be 2010 or so.
Click to expand...

Hitsquad, The price just went down 30% for the next two years (up to $2000 in tax CREDITS)! I can't think of a better time to install PV and solar hot water systems.
 
C

CarolynA

Veteran Member
Practicing right now........a rodent died up in the heater duct. Eeeeeuuwww! We haven't needed the heater for a few days because it's only been in the 40s at night but last night it dropped to 25! The cold front that was on the way arrived a day early. It should be around 20 degrees at night for the rest of the week. Just got a good fire going in the woodstove & we'll be toasty before long.
 
LoupGarou

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
vulcan said:
Hi All,
Lots of good info & links here:)

Does anyone have a link for converting DC Permanant magnet motors to generators?

I have questions if a diode bridge is needed & voltage regulation
ideas. Thanks for any help.

I'm in the city, & used AGM batteries with a inverter to power the computer thru the blackout also:)

I'm in ther process of getting a 20 watt panel to speed up charging. I just have a 5 watt panel now. I really wanted a 50 watt panel, But size & storability is a concern for me. I also have a small generator as a backup. I'm in the city, But live in a duplex apt. with a yard . I 'm able to use some of the country techniques for energy.

I sure envy the country folk here:D
Click to expand...

If you are trying to use a PM-DC motor as a generator, make sure that the motor's voltage rating (as a motor) is at least double or triple what you expect to get out of it, you don't want to have to find a way to spin it up to 20,000 RPM to get usable current out of it if TSHTF. I have a few 90-110VDC PM motors that I have used in the past with no problem, at 2,000 RPM they were putting out 20-30 volts at a few amps, just right for some of the small engines I have. As far as regulation and rectification, just use a 25-35Amp full wave bridge rectifier (RadioShack sells them), this way it does not matter which way you spin it. Current regulation, if you have a good sized battery bank (<800AH) is not needed if the generator only puts out a few amps. If you can find a good sized unit, and it dumps out more, or if your battery bank is smaller, then you might want to look for a charge controller (Northern has a 7Amp and 30Amp). A good place to start looking for your PM-DC motor is Surplus sales of Nebraska http://www.surplussales.com .

For smaller/slower sources of mechanical energy, you might want to also play with stepper motors. You will need two full wave bridge rectifiers and place the AC inputs the two outputs of the stepper motor and then tie the DC outputs of the bridges together (+to+, -to- for more current, or one + to the other - and use the remaining open wires for more voltage). This may net you a few volts at a few hundred mAs for a few RPM's (more output if you can find a larger stepper motor). Perfect for small wind and stream generators.

A source I use for flexible solar panels (you never know if you might have to take them with you) is http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZvitabon
. She sells them individually or in groups of 5. I have bought a few of the 20Watt panels and they work great. You can't fold them, but you can roll them and stick them in a 3 or 4 inch PVC pipe (or same sized cardboard tube) for storage/transport. I have five rolled up together (one on top of another then rolled up) inside of a camera bag that also holds a charge controller, meter, and extra cables. They are durable, if they are on a flat surface, you can even walk on them with bare feet (warning August sun will get them hot, so walk quickly). They come with grommet holes in each corner so you can tie them up as well. Five 20Watt panels work great with Northern's 7Amp charge controller, and will charge any of my smaller AGM batteries back up in less than a day. Yes they are more expensive, but I would rather have a few panels that are not fragile and can easily be taken with me if I need to.

Loup Garou
 
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