ENER Oil from coal tech

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
If any of you want to get up to speed quickly on this technology, I suggest that you read the Wiki entry, below:


I've never been one to believe that we'll run out of oil and gas. Anyone who looks into the subject in any depth should realize that there will always be hydrocarbon fuels available. The cost of this availability is the rub. As with virtually everything in this world, the more dear resources become, the less they are available to the general public and they become the domain of the wealthy and/or politically powerful. As an example, in WWII both Germany and Japan suffered from extreme fuel shortages. Nonetheless, Hitler, Himmler and the other Nazi higher-ups always had fuel. Similarly, Japanese Emperor Hirohito and the Japanese military and political elite were always driven in motor vehicles 'til the end of the war.

The basic coal-to-oil technologies have been around for over 100 years and at times during WWII, the majority of all of Germany's fuel came from that resource. In later decades, the South African Government subsidized the coal to liquid technology through the firm, SASOL. In fact, I've driven through countless tanks of this coal-derived gasoline when I lived in South Africa. The United States still has massive coal reserves and I've seen very little public discourse regarding the future possibilities of turning at least some of that coal into liquid fuels.

In addition to liquid fuels, it is also possible to turn wood and other organic materials into fuel gasses. This is also very old technology and - to use another WWII example - during the war, many European farmers used wood-derived fuel gasses to power their tractors and other farm equipment.

None of those possibilities is cheap, but they have been used successfully in the past and I'm certain that our more sophisticated technologies and abilities could make a much better job of them than the WWII era versions.

I'd be interested in hearing other board members thoughts on these future possibilities.

Best
Doc
 

Reasonable Rascal

Veteran Member
Oak Ridge National Labs put out a wood gasification manual in the 70's, part of their civil defense series that also included cottage-level production of antibiotics after the main industry was destroyed.

The gasification is a pain in the butt but also very viable. You won't be going across country but you can run tractors and trucks and cars, assuming you can still find carburated engines.

RR
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
I have often posted about this forum dedicated to running one’s vehicles on wood and charcoal:


awesome bunch of guys and new designs that are vastly improved and far more efficient than WW2 designs that were mass produced for the civilian markets.

this group routinely get together once a year for a weekend to swap ideas and show their trucks and generators running on wood/charcoal. The forum provides the exchange of new ideas and successful experiments that further the technology.

Wayne Keith’s trucks get up to 5200 miles per cord of hardwood with virtually zero pollution and has been noted to reach 95 mph in a race from California to Texas. Broke the speed limit in Death Valley and that cost him his first place in the race… but the vast majority of people in this country are ignorant of this technology or not interested…

wood gas is basically carbon monoxide, methane, and hydrogen, and properly burned produces heat, water vapor, and carbon dioxide, which since it comes from wood, is carbon neutral, since it wasn’t mined and was part of the natural biological environment and whether burned or left to rot on the ground, will return to the atmosphere where the plants/trees turn it back into plant matter.
 

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The third Reich extracted oil from coal in the lead up to WW2. They just could not extract enough to sate the beast that was their military...
 

toxic avenger

Senior Member
Coal gasification was popular in the late 1800’s / early 1900’s. It is how most communities developed natural gas service. The liquid byproduct, coal tar, was mostly used as waterproofing material or refined into other products.

A former WWII plant near me had a coal gasification plant on the premises to keep the main plant operational in the event of energy shortages. It sat only a few miles from one of the largest coal deposits in the country.

About 20 years ago, a PA coal company received a large federal grant to develop a coal to oil plant and experiments were made to see how well the manufactured oil could be refined into jet fuel. Nother further developed.
 

Luddite

Veteran Member
The technology is there.

The political desire to have cheap and plentiful fuels is absent.

Carbon MUST be captured.

Imho, there's no reason we're not paying a dollar per gallon for gasoline. No reason we're not paying 9 cents per kwh for electricity.
Imho, current technology would allow this to happen with minimal realistic environmental impact.

FOR THE NEXT COUPLE CENTURIES.

Our ggggg grandkids could worry about gasification of coal then.

Never forget we'll own nothing and be happy in a 15 minute city. We have been given the road map. All roads on it are CLOSED.

Eta: BTW, the "carbon to be captured is PEOPLE. (I used my best impression of Heston in the SOYLENT GREEN ending. ;))
 
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rob0126

Veteran Member
Touching on some woo (It really isn't from my observations), zero point energy devices would make that almost obsolete.
No, I dont have the plans for one (Im sure the oil companies are sitting on multitudes of patents though) but we all know that it's possible. (.mil antigravity tech for one, population seeing extremely fast UAV's, etc)


So it makes you wonder if God will allow the tech to be utilized by the general population or will he crash the whole system back to horse and buggy days? I don't know, but we will see.

Meanwhile, we are stuck with 19th-20th century tech, which isn't a bad thing. It's just a matter of taking control of our nations from the monsters who currently run them. How? I don't know.

But we can pray.
 

Txkstew

Veteran Member
Karl Denninger at Market Ticker, covered a lot on this subject in a 2011 essay.
He throws a lot of the math involved in using Thorium fuel in a Nuclear Process that is abundant enough to last at least 200 years, and produce Liquid Hydrocarbon Fuel from coal, for transportation fleet needs. Abundant Electrical Generation is a plus as well.

 

dvo

Veteran Member
Way back in the way back machine, the Great Plains Coal Gasification Project was a thing. Think 1978 or so. The Country had experienced several difficult winters and natural gas was in short supply. Business and industry were being allocated, or shut down because of a shortage of natural gas. A consortium proposed a coal to gas project in one of the Dakotas…forget which. I think they did a demonstration project that was shown to work. Plenty of coal/lignite close by. The downstream states were skeptical. Price I assume. These things are very doable, but at what market price? I don’t think the project went commercial. I know my state at the time…Ohio was skeptical.
 

Matt

Veteran Member
Peak oil theory never stated we run out of energy... we run out of energy that can be extracted cheaply enough to fuel our modern society..... all of the tight gas and oil that requires fracking is a good example..... it cost massive amounts of money and more importantly... energy to drill and complete the wells... but they suffer enormous productivity declines right around the 18 month mark....

Everyone piles in the investment capital based on the test well flows.... but the well never pays for itself... ultimate ponzi scheme...

Tar sands, coal gasification, oil shale, etc all suffer the energy return on energy Input calculations don't work... same with solar.. takes more energy to make a panel than the panel generates in its service life

In short... the days of Baristas being able to afford air travel are over!
 
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Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Peak oil theory never stated we run out of energy... we run out of energy that can be extracted cheaply enough to fuel our modern society..... all of the tight gas and oil that requires fracking is a good example..... it cost massive amounts of money and more importantly... energy to drill and complete the wells... but they suffer enormous productivity declines right around the 18 month mark....

Everyone piles in the investment capital based on the test well flows.... but the well never pays for itself... ultimate ponzi scheme...

Tar sands, coal gasification, oil shale, etc all suffer the energy return on energy Input calculations don't work... same with solar.. takes more energy to make a panel than the panel generates in its service life

In short... the days of Baristas being able to afford air travel are over!
And the kicker of it all is they are holding back tech that could solve our energy crisis, because it would endanger big oil.
 

dvo

Veteran Member
Peak oil theory never stated we run out of energy... we run out of energy that can be extracted cheaply enough to fuel our modern society..... all of the tight gas and oil that requires fracking is a good example..... it cost massive amounts of money and more importantly... energy to drill and complete the wells... but they suffer enormous productivity declines right around the 18 month mark....

Everyone piles in the investment capital based on the test well flows.... but the well never pays for itself... ultimate ponzi scheme...

Tar sands, coal gasification, oil shale, etc all suffer the energy return on energy Input calculations don't work... same with solar.. takes more energy to make a panel than the panel generates in its service life

In short... the days of Baristas being able to afford air travel are over!
Man…you are a doomer. Real economics and magical economics are very different things. And…those baristas are due for some real disappointment.
 

Meadowlark

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I heard somewhere that at the present rate of consumption we have close to a thousand years of coal reserves.
 
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