Ohio recount?

[Spirit Of Truth]

Great....John Edwards, Mr. lawyer, just made what seems like an opening statement for a Ohio recount saying they will fight for every last vote.

Transcript: http://www.fednews.com/transcript.htm?id=20041103t0830

I've heard estimates from 100K to 200K provisional ballots in the state, but only 30K-50K are likely to be validated. Bush is currently ahead 125K+ votes. Kerry's not likely to turn out the victor, but a great big mess can be created in the meantime. If the first official count after provisional ballots are counted, which could take about two weeks, leads to a 1/4 of 1% difference between the two candidates, then guess what: RECOUNT....as in FL in 2000.

Current Ohio count: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=index2&cid=1252

A final call for Ohio could be delayed for two weeks or more if the lawyers get involved.

The Democrats should spare the nation a repeat of the 2000 nightmare and admit the obvious...

As I indicated before...

BUSH WINS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Prairie Lady]

I'm not familiar with "provisional ballots". What are they, and why are the not counted??
pl

 

[Spirit Of Truth]

From - http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41267

ELECTION DAY 2004
Kerry camp refuses to concede Ohio
John Edwards: 'We will fight for every vote'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 3, 2004
1:59 a.m. Eastern

© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

While news networks projected President Bush as the winner in Ohio the Kerry camp says, "not so fast," and refuses to concede the key battleground state.

With 92 percent of the precincts reporting, Bush has 51 percent of the vote compared to the senator's 49 percent.

Although networks say they felt comfortable calling the state for Bush, who holds more than a 125,000-vote margin, Kerry campaign officials scolded the networks for jumping the gun, emphasizing the provisional ballots yet to be counted push the outstanding votes well beyond the current margin.

"The vote count in Ohio has not been completed. There are more than 250,000 remaining votes to be counted. We believe when they are, John Kerry will win Ohio," Kerry campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill said in a statement.

Sen. John Edwards made an appearance before more than a thousand campaign backers assembled for a victory celebration at Copley Place in Boston at 2:30 a.m. Eastern.

The tired looking, but upbeat vice presidential candidate thanked supporters in a brief address and pledged a fight to the finish.

"It's been a long night but we've waited four years for this victory; we can wait one more night," he said amid cheers. "John Kerry and I made a promise to the American people that in this election every vote would count and every vote would be counted. Tonight we are keeping our word and we will fight for every vote. You deserve no less."

Campaign attorneys are poised for challenges to the provisional ballots. Kerry spokeswoman Jen Palmieri earlier told Fox News the campaign had 3,200 lawyers and paralegals on standby in Ohio.

Analysts say the threat of challenges to every provisional ballot poses the specter of delaying the outcome of the presidential race for more than a week.

 

[Spirit Of Truth]

From - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20565-2004Nov3.html

20 Crucial Electoral Votes May Be Stuck in Limbo
Clear Winner Could Take Weeks to Determine

By Dan Eggen and Jo Becker
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, November 3, 2004; Page A21

Ohio emerged as the key battleground late yesterday, as the race for president narrowed to depend heavily on the outcome of balloting that may not be known for days.

With 20 electoral votes and an estimated 5.8 million voters swarming the polls, the blue-collar battleground turned out to be as closely fought as many Democrats and Republicans had predicted.

The election could hinge on an estimated 250,000 additional provisional ballots -- cast by voters whose eligibility was unclear on Election Day -- as well as tens of thousands of absentee military ballots. The provisional votes cannot be counted for 11 days, and state officials said last night they would not declare a winner if the margin between President Bush and Sen. John F. Kerry was narrower than the number of provisional ballots.

MORE...

 

[mt4design]

they'll work to ensure that all the dead voters and the double voting residents have their ballots counted (a few times).

 

[Prairie Lady]

What a waste of time and money this time around! But then, obviously kerry has more money than brains, especially since he has his wife's wallet to spend in addition to his own.

Glad he won't make the presidency. We can't afford his extravagant spending habits.

pl

 

[TJA]

I'm not familiar with "provisional ballots". What are they, and why are the not counted??
pl

It's my understanding that provisional ballots are issued to people who show up at a polling place in order to vote but are not listed as being registered. Instead of turning them away they are issued a provisional ballot which will be looked at later (possibly only if the number of provisional ballots is greater than the number differance of votes between the leading candidates ?). I would think that many of these would be considered invalid anyway for some reason or another and are probably only valid for stuff like paperwork screwups that resulted in registered voters not being on the list.

 

[expose']

Well....All Edwards would have to do is go to the Ohio Secretary of State elections website to see that there are only 39K Provisional ballots to be counted.... Even if they were all cast for Kerry...He wouldn't make it!
http://election.sos.state.oh.us/ProvBallots.htm
County Number County Name Provisional Ballots Issued
1 Adams
2 Allen 1,374
3 Ashland 629
4 Ashtabula 1,142
5 Athens
6 Auglaize 647
7 Belmont
8 Brown
9 Butler 5,793
10 Carroll 304
11 Champaign 555
12 Clark
13 Clermont
14 Clinton 378
15 Columbiana 1,085
16 Coshocton
17 Crawford 424
18 Cuyahoga
19 Darke
20 Defiance
21 Delaware
22 Erie 1,072
23 Fairfield
24 Fayette 293
25 Franklin
26 Fulton 381
27 Gallia 574
28 Geauga 668
29 Greene 2,127
30 Guernsey 558
31 Hamilton
32 Hancock 791
33 Hardin
34 Harrison 89
35 Henry 250
36 Highland
37 Hocking
38 Holmes 170
39 Huron 670
40 Jackson
41 Jefferson
42 Knox
43 Lake
44 Lawrence
45 Licking
46 Logan 650
47 Lorain
48 Lucas
49 Madison
50 Mahoning
51 Marion 928
52 Medina 1,266
53 Meigs 240
54 Mercer
55 Miami
56 Monroe 132
57 Montgomery
58 Morgan 160
59 Morrow 314
60 Muskingum 871
61 Noble 75
62 Ottawa 469
63 Paulding
64 Perry 428
65 Pickaway
66 Pike
67 Portage
68 Preble 493
69 Putnam 246
70 Richland 1,357
71 Ross 537
72 Sandusky 760
73 Scioto
74 Seneca 494
75 Shelby 791
76 Stark
77 Summit
78 Trumbull 2,700
79 Tuscarawas
80 Union 436
81 Van Wert
82 Vinton
83 Warren
84 Washington
85 Wayne 818
86 Williams
87 Wood 2,655
88 Wyandot 138
Total 36,932

 

[Ought Six]

If there are less provisional ballots than the margin of victory, they will not bother to validate them, as they would not change the outcome of the election. As for a recount, they do not get one just because they want one. They must have grounds to demand a recount, and that means clear evidence of problems.

 

[Spirit Of Truth]

If there are less provisional ballots than the margin of victory, they will not bother to validate them, as they would not change the outcome of the election. As for a recount, they do not get one just because they want one. They must have grounds to demand a recount, and that means clear evidence of problems.

A recount, according to OH law, can be called if the margin of victory is 1/4 of 1% or less.

 

[Spirit Of Truth]

What seems assurred is this....if Edwards and the lawyer scum of the earth get involved, it's going to be a nightmare.

 

[bipshoft]

you all seem to forget about the out of state ballots which have yet to be counted

 

[Ought Six]

SoT:

"A recount, according to OH law, can be called if the margin of victory is 1/4 of 1% or less."

I am aware of that, as all the networks have been talking about that. Since the margin is more than that, it is a moot point.

 

[blackmo]

Well....All Edwards would have to do is go to the Ohio Secretary of State elections website to see that there are only 39K Provisional ballots to be counted....
http://election.sos.state.oh.us/ProvBallots.htm
County Number County Name Provisional Ballots Issued
Total 36,932

The link you posted shows 76027 provisional votes.

 

[Ought Six]

Expose's link now shows 95,000+ provisional ballots. But GW's margin of victory in Ohio is 145,000+ votes, so the provisional ballots are still irrelevant and will not be counted.

 

[blackmo]

Assuming Expose was telling the truth on her/his first link, at the rate of increase being shown, then there will be more than enough to justify a count by tomorrow morning. And you're pretty quick to call those 95,000 voters efforts irrelevant too, but thats to be expected from the likes of you and your kind.

 

[Ought Six]

bm:

"Assuming Expose was telling the truth on her/his first link, at the rate of increase being shown, then there will be more than enough to justify a count by tomorrow morning."

That would be a stupid and erroneous assumption, as it has been widely reported that there are nowhere near that many provisional ballots out there. I guess you missed that.
----------

"And you're pretty quick to call those 95,000 voters efforts irrelevant too, but thats to be expected from the likes of you and your kind."

I state that not as opinion, but as a matter of fact. If the amount of provisional ballots are less than the margin of victory (and they are), then they cannot change the outcome of the election and are therefore obviously irrelevant. GW wins anyways.

As for "your kind", I guess that would be some other kind than a brainless, whining leftist like you, so I will take it as compliment that you exclude me from your group. Thank you!

 

[blackmo]

bm:That would be a stupid and erroneous assumption, as it has been widely reported that there are nowhere near that many provisional ballots out there. I guess you missed that.
----------I state that not as opinion, but as a matter of fact. If the amount of provisional ballots are less than the margin of victory (and they are), then they cannot change the outcome of the election and are therefore obviously irrelevant. GW wins anyways.

As for "your kind", I guess that would be some other kind than a brainless, whining leftist like you, so I will take it as compliment that you exclude me from your group. Thank you!

I see... It's a matter of "FACT" that there MIGHT not be enough provisional votes (in your opinion) to justify a count.

Pardon me for wanting to know how many actual votes there are before we decide not to count them, you overbearing ignorant nazi.

 

[Ought Six]

Nope, not my opinon. As I said, it has been widely reported by all the news outlets I have watched tonight, including your commie buddies at CNN and MSNBC. They are not exactly pro-Bush, now are they? But of course you see not what is posted, but only what your leftist brain filter allows in to that pea rattling around in your fetid cranial cavity. You may continue to labor on under your burden of profound voluntary ignorance and programmed Dem talking points that you parrot like a defective autonomaton. Being the insensiate, blinking calf that you are, your liberal yammerings are flat, stale and tiresome, so I will leave you to them. Enjoy!

 

[blackmo]

"That would be a stupid and erroneous assumption, as it has been widely reported that there are nowhere near that many provisional ballots out there. I guess you missed that."

Whoops! It's up to a 135,000 now. Darn things seem to be getting loser to that 145,000 mark you spoke of.

 

[blackmo]

Nope, not my opinon. As I said, it has been widely reported by all the news outlet I have watched tonight, including your commie buddies at CNN and MSNBC. They are not exactly pro-Bush, now are they? But of course you see not what is posted, but only what your leftist brain filter allows in. You may continue to labor on under your burden of profound voluntary ignorance and programmed Dem talking points that you parrot like a defective autonomaton. Being the insensiate, blinking calf that you are, your liberal yammerings are flat, stale and tiresome, so I will leave you to them. Enjoy!

I'm sorry...I don't watch television much, (more of a reader, personally) so I wouldn't know what they say. I guess I'll just take your word for it and go get some rack time. Congrats on the win, Republicans. My NON-commie buds and I'll will be gunning for you next time, though.

 

[CGTech]

Settle down folks! It's a pain to keep wiping the mud of my monitor!

One point my local (Canada) radio station made, was that , regardless of the vote count in Ohio, Kerry has a bigger problem - he has lost the popular vote nation-wide.

And THAT is a very telling indication of how the people really feel. In my own, humble, Canadian, opinion.

Also, I think Bin Ladin's gambit backfired.........if anything, USA folk sent him a message:

"Sit on it and rotate!!"

 

[Ought Six]

I just checked the exact margin of victory - 134,019. So it looks like CNN, MSNBC & Fox were dead wrong. The number of provisional ballots has exceeded the margin of victory, possibly giving Kerry grounds to demand the processing of all the provisional ballots. However, there is obviously no way that that Kerry is going to gain another 134,019 votes from those ballots, so if the courts grant him the provisional count, it is merely delaying the inevitable.

 

[Jumpy Frog]

Hopefully the outstanding provo. ballots will not have to be counted against the margin ballots as this will only postpone the already volitile situtation. I think Bushie has this one in the bag. 51% to 49% is about as close as it can get IMHO and Kerry is starting to look very childish by holding out for the bitter end. I mean the guy would have to win all the remaining states. It could happen, but just say lets wait to the end, instead of this we've got our lawyers ready in Ohio, and we want the provos counted even if they are not going to change the outcome. Just more ways to sow even more doubt and discord in our country. Sorry tired and rambling.


Don't shoot I'm 3rd Party..............
Jumpy

 

[Dennis Olson]

Count 'em. Do a recount (statewide) too. No problem. These mechanisms are in place for a reason. Use them, rather than the courts.

 

[Ought Six]

I voted Libertarian, but I am glad to see Kerry lose. I hope he stomps his feet and holds his breath until he turns blue, and unleashes a horde of lawyers on Ohio, pissing off the entire nation. I want to see him standing side-by-side with Michael Moore screaming that "the election was stolen from him", just like Al Gore. I want to hear Jesse Jackson standing next to J.F. Kerry saying "it is another Selma", while Al Sharpton has the crowd chanting "No justice! No peace!" Let Al Franken show them how 'funny' he really is while he hacks on GW with stupid, tasteless, humorless cheap shots. Trot out Woopie Goldberg to make some grotesquely offensive, crude remarks. Let Babs screech out a few tunes and share her political acumen with the nation. I hope that John Edwards sues everybody. Let the Dems once again put their true nature on full display for the American people to gaze upon until they cannot stand it anymore, and run away puking.

 

[Jumpy Frog]

For once 06, I compleatly agree with you.

 

[ejagno]

I'll bet thereza's mad as hell. It'll be funny to see what spews from her lips today.

 

[rescath]

Ohio Secretary of State Blackwell (a Republican) went on the air last night (CBS) and indicated that there were 175,000 provisional ballots issued (gave a range of between 150,000 - 200,000 based on turnout). He indicated that in his estimation (based on past history) 90% of these would be deemed valid. Kerry-Edwards have stated that a vast majority of these were issued in the urban areas (e.g., Cleveland, Columbus) where the vote went 85-90% for Kerry-Edwards. If you crunch the numbers, that would yield 135,000 extra votes for Kerry, almost the exact lead that Bush has right now.

There's also the issue of recounting the 10% electronic votes in Ohio. If Kerry demands a recount, these CANNOT be recounted. They leave no paper trail. See the "It's Going To Get Ugly" thread in the Election 2004 forum.

 

[Spirit Of Truth]

Remarkable....Bush's margin of victory is 135K votes in Ohio and the number of provisional ballots used is 135K!

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=index2&cid=1252

http://election.sos.state.oh.us/ProvBallots.htm

I wonder how many provisional ballots were used in the 2000 election in Ohio?

If the margin of victory can be reduced to 14K or less, then a recount can be called.

If Kerry/Edwards don't concede and fight the numbers in OH, they are undermining U.S. democracy and potentially instigating civil strife.

 

[rescath]

You numbers are wrong, dodos. Blackwell (Republican) estimates anywhere between 150K - 250K provisional ballots. He doesn't have exact numbers but says the total is trending towards 175K. Blackwell has ordered all states to count the exact numbers by 2PM. We'll know more then. If indeed 90% are valid (as Blackwell guessed -- and you know that Kerry-Edwards will contest EVERY SINGLE ONE they try to thow out -- dragging this out for weeks), and if indeed most of these are from urban areas, then this would bring the vote a lot closer, close enough for Kerry to demand a recount. Then, there's no way to recount the 8 counties which use electronic voting with no audit / paper trail. That will lead to massive legal wrangling (up to Supreme Court again possibly with a 4-4 tie if Renquist is out of action). We may not know a winner by Inauguration Day. If you cannot do a recount, then these 8 counties (probably 2 to 1 Bush -- Cuyahoga uses paper ballots) may get thrown out. Kerry becomes the winner, but having lost the popular vote by 3 mil, there will be a massive uprising, demanding a Constitutional convention to get rid of the electoral college (further eroding state sovereignty).

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/election.main/index.html

 

[Bill P]

rescath,

You should write a novel because you are spouting FICTION:

1. Rehnquist is not out - he has siad he will offer opinion from his home wihile he convaleces.

2. Recent tallies of provisional ballots in Ohio are showing a widening spread in favor of GWB. It is now statistcially impossible for Kerry to win Ohio.



FOXNews says GWB will have a statement by 10:30 am. Turn on your TV.

 

[night driver]

the cities went 66% for Kerry, or at leastr cuy county did...and there are 26K provos in Cuy Cty....

so extrapolating form there, 2/3 of 175,000 (which is the number that Blackwell was most coimfy with) is nearewr 110,000 ASSUMING that ALL 175K are valid (and not attempts to vote twice or attempts by people who were purged two years ago......).

 

[Blastoff]

Where's my Ohio riots??

 

[Slydersan]

Where's my Ohio riots??

I heard on my way home last night that there was supposed to be "a big rally in downtown Baltimore to protest against Bush 'stealing the election'-type thing." But I haven't heard anymore on it....so it probably ended up like all of the Ohio riots...completely ignored.

Most people here are just glad there wasn't a repeat of the 2000 debacle. We're 'Merikans dammit, we want our answers NOW. hehehe