GUNS/RLTD NV vs thermal advice needed.

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parsonswife

Veteran Member
I want to go another level up in prepping and need some advice.
1 We will be Bugging In if shtf and not hiking in the woods or city scape if at all possible due to health and age.
We can drive out in truck if needed

2. We live in an older neighborhood with very few kids/teenagers around and are half a mile from major freeway and 1 block from LEO

My initial thoughts are that I want to see what's coming at us /hiding in the bushes etc. rather than move around in the dark myself.

any input?

We have about $400 available.
 
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Oldotaku

Veteran Member
There is no thermal at the $400 price point that I would spend money on. Light intensification is mostly Chinese gear, which is as cheap as it goes. There is plenty of "Active IR" stuff available, but you will stand out like a searchlight to anyone with better gear.
 
LoupGarou

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
Thermal will NOT work through regular windows, so for you to see the bad guys, you have to be out there with them on the outside of the house, or looking out an open window.

NV will work through windows provided that you have NO lights on inside (otherwise the reflection in the windows will be a LOT stronger than any weak images going through the glass. That being said, if you can get a decent digital NV set, and a few IR illuminators that you can mount outside to shine on those "unknown areas" around your house, that will give you the ability to not only put a LOT of usable but not human visible IR light outside, keep the lights out inside, and you can watch from at least some safety. A good set of digital NV will set you back $200-400, leaving you at least $100-200 for IR lighting for outside.

I might also suggest a few good microphone setups (Microphone, amplifier, and speakers) for outside so that you can "hear" anyone moving around out there long before you can see them. Very few bad guys expect anyone to have "bionic ears" outside that may hear them when they are still down the street. And this won't cost an arm and a leg.
 
Millwright

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
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You can get in the thermal game starting at a coupla hundred.

SEEK makes a unit that works through your phone. I have one, it does pretty good for the price.

Like Loup said, it don't work through glass, NV does.

A lot harder to hide from thermal.

www.thermal.com

Thermal Cameras for your Smartphone

Portable, lightweight, and easy-to-use
www.thermal.com
 
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bracketquant

Veteran Member
parsonswife said:
I want to go another level up in prepping and need some advice.
1 We will be Bugging In if shtf and not hiking in the woods or city scape if at all possible due to health and age.
We can drive out in truck if needed

2. We live in an older neighborhood with very few kids/teenagers around and are half a mile from major freeway and 1 block from LEO

My initial thoughts are that I want to see what's coming at us /hiding in the bushes etc. rather than move around in the dark myself.

any input?

We have about $400 available.
Click to expand...
You say you will be bugging in, but can drive out in truck if needed. Think about the if needed part...

In a total SHTF situation, if you don't bug out roughly 12 to 24 hours before everyone else does, you aren't going anywhere. Many roads will be total gridlock. It would be best to know, and have a map, of every side road, least traveled road, that can take you to where you want to go.

May you have peace, and never need to use the NV equipment.
 
Millwright

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
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zealotbat said:
Buy once cry once.
Click to expand...

Not gonna get into good, passive NV (gen III) for much less than 3 large.

Doc1 says gen II is better than nothing. I've only messed with gen III and can't give an honest assessment on that one.

Digital NV needs an illuminator, that's its own set of issues.

Thermal is getting pretty reasonable, but it has some limitations.

Having both is optimal, different tools for different jobs.
 
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zealotbat

Senior Member
I bought a Burris Thermal...had it on my AR...but took it off for my 6.5 creedmoor. Too much for an AR, need less magnification for that puppy..
 
Millwright

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Move with head mounted NV.

Thermal on gun with an IR laser for 50 yards or less.

A handheld thermal saves having to swing your gun around while scanning.
 
SmithJ

SmithJ

Veteran Member
Invest in a good WiFi camera system covering the exterior of your house. Most of them have infrared illumination and can be viewed on a tablet or your phone. Plus you can set text alerts for movement

You would get a lot more benefit out of something like that, given your health and age concerns. It doesn’t sound like you will be running and gunning
 
Jeff Allen

Jeff Allen

Producer
I learned that an AN-PVS14 with all the mounting, quality helmet, DBAL and comms is right smack dab at $10,000 per man/rifle...and the rifle was only $1,200 of that cost.
But you can stash a little, er I mean HUGE AND HEAVY ATN thermal on for $300. I would MUCH rather have ten guys with the little ATN's rather than only 1 fully decked out guy.... but, the difference in capabilities is, well, probably worth every penny if needed, it really is that much better, do really do get what you pay for in that game.
Best of luck.
J
 
ArisenCarcass

ArisenCarcass

Veteran Member
For the budget minded, IMHO this is THE best option.

Loading…

www.amazon.com


Thermal has come a LOOOOONG way in the last few years.
This is better than the $27,000 FLIR I was issued circa 2008, and far smaller (about PVS-14 sized).
I need to work up a J arm and it would be great on a helmet.

Your only problem is aiming.
Use the thermal for target sighting and ID, and either a cheap NV scope or white light for shooting.
 
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parsonswife

Veteran Member
SmithJ said:
Invest in a good WiFi camera system covering the exterior of your house. Most of them have infrared illumination and can be viewed on a tablet or your phone. Plus you can set text alerts for movement

You would get a lot more benefit out of something like that, given your health and age concerns. It doesn’t sound like you will be running and gunning
Click to expand...
We have wifi cameras Ring and Kuna but concerned with power grid/wifi internet going down
 
ArisenCarcass

ArisenCarcass

Veteran Member
Groucho said:
A pretty good NV device is by Sionyx. Can be mounted.

Aurora Black This is right at the top of your budget.
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I've seen some YT vids on InRangeTV and TRexArms about Sionyx.
Looks like they are doing great things for digital NV.
The Aurora is way closer to my $$$$ than the Opsin, so I'll probably buy one soon.
 
subnet

subnet

Boot
SmithJ said:
Invest in a good WiFi camera system covering the exterior of your house. Most of them have infrared illumination and can be viewed on a tablet or your phone. Plus you can set text alerts for movement

You would get a lot more benefit out of something like that, given your health and age concerns. It doesn’t sound like you will be running and gunning
Click to expand...
Was watching a home invasion in progress vid (supposedly illegals) about 2 weeks ago that was posted, they show 1 of the group with what looked like a box of some sort wandering around, apparently it was a jamming device for the wifi home security setups.
Not sure how far away the camera was that caught them or if it just took them a few to get up and running but the narrator said its a growing trend.
 
Jeff Allen

Jeff Allen

Producer
subnet said:
Was watching a home invasion in progress vid (supposedly illegals) about 2 weeks ago that was posted, they show 1 of the group with what looked like a box of some sort wandering around, apparently it was a jamming device for the wifi home security setups.
Not sure how far away the camera was that caught them or if it just took them a few to get up and running but the narrator said its a growing trend.
Click to expand...
All my cameras are hardwired, unfortunately, 500' out I had to group those cameras together and use a wireless bridge, so, I'm vulnerable there and I know it. I ran fiber from that point to where we are planning on building the house last year, so, hopefully in two years I'll be connected via fiber to those remote cameras.
Cameras are a MASSIVE game changer for a remote homestead. I have two concrete pillars with a 15' steel pole mounted to hold cam's 100' off the road and at the gate. We have had zero incursions over the last three years by shady folks. That camera near the road is unmistakable, its huge, its high off the ground and you just can't miss it. It would be helpful even if it didn't work I suspect.

J
 
ArisenCarcass

ArisenCarcass

Veteran Member
naegling62 said:
I use an autonomous system. It hears, smells and sees better than anything out there. Plus it fetches.
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I LOVE my puppers, but they can't see body heat.
Thermal is a HUGE game changer at seeing much of what is in the dark.

Just a couple of weeks ago, we let out a new flock of ducks that were large enough to go to the pond.
They are new, so they are loud and have bad night habits (they were penned and safe).

A coyote was lying in the brush on the dam.
The wind wasn't favorable, it was pitch-dark, and the coyote was unmoving at that moment....waiting for my ducks to go to shore.
My "coyote killer" Husky-Shepard (he has killed several) didn't perceive it, or he and the others would have gone after it.
I could see it clear as day, from over 50yds.
I dispatched it from the orchard.
If it weren't for the thermal, I'd have lost ducks.

I honestly can't tell you how much Thermal is a game changer......Until you get it, you won't understand.
It is literally a superpower that you can buy.

I've worked this farm for decades and even with NVGs, I've never "owned the night" like I do now.
For that reason, I cannot recommend the ASP highly enough.
JMHO.
 
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Zardoz

Contributing Member
Creedmoor said:
Nutnfancy has had quite a few very good “in the field” reviews of various types, models and cost levels of NV gear. This is just an example.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYLouMJ6SEM
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This is the route I went. We live in the country in the PNW. All kinds of weather issues, and when the power goes out it gets Freaking Dark. I subscribe to Pay once, Cry once when it comes to our safety. There is a reason our military likes Thermal.
 
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bobfall2005

Veteran Member
The sub 500 market is getting better.
It won't be as good as a 4000 pvs14.
But you can get something that is way better than your eye at night .

Nvg30. Go look at YouTube.

Nightfox prowl . Yt

Or something from one leaf.
I would start at one leaf nv.
Clipons are extremely cool .
Daytime nighttime.
YT

If you only have 400, you can get into one of these, now.

You would have a digital optic that is way better than your eyes. Or any human's eye.

Saving up for 4000 nv might take years.
Get something now, save for better.

Than you will have two different units that have different capabilities.

Plus, two years is a long time. You might want something sooner.

There are a bunch of how too on yt.
Best budget clips nv, search.
 
Doc1

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Millwright said:
Not gonna get into good, passive NV (gen III) for much less than 3 large.

Doc1 says gen II is better than nothing. I've only messed with gen III and can't give an honest assessment on that one.

Digital NV needs an illuminator, that's its own set of issues.

Thermal is getting pretty reasonable, but it has some limitations.

Having both is optimal, different tools for different jobs.
Click to expand...

Millwright, if memory serves, I said that Gen I is infinitely better than the naked eye. Gen II is miles ahead of Gen I, whereas while Gen III is better than Gen II, it's a smaller qualitative difference than between Gen I and Gen II.

Below is an image of an old, US, PVS-5, Gen II goggle set from the early '80s. While "only" Gen II, the image quality is still pretty darned good. These are somewhat rare today as any that reached the surplus market or - to be honest - were stolen from US inventories tended to be cannibalized to make two monoculars.

IMG_3959-660x495.jpg

The later PVS-7, Gen III devices (shown below) used a single intensifier tube which, through system of optical prisms provided stereoscopic vision to both eyes.

pvs-7-night-vision-goggles.jpg

The newer PVS-14 is a gen III monocular, shown below:

PVS-14-Black-2021.jpg
There are many, many other Gen II and Gen III NVDs (Night Vision Devices) out there. What I illustrated above represents the most common US .mil models. If you absolutely can only afford a $200 set of big box store Gen I NVDs, then buy them. They will be far better than the naked eye - but equally - far inferior to any of the units I illustrated above.

I started with a Gen l unit decades ago and after seeing my first Gen II and Gen III units, I was so frustrated that by hook and by crook, I made the sacrifices to get something better. Today I have three head-mounted Gen III units and one Gen II rifle scope. It's become something of an addiction, like my Harley-Davidson and firearms collecting addictions ;-)

My point is that if I, a man of relatively modest means, can wind up with Gen III NVDs, almost anyone else should be able to if they put their minds to it!

Best
Doc
 
rbt

rbt

Veteran Member

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AGM Global Vision TM 15-256 thermal Monocular, going to buy one of these, went to Reno last week they were out at Scheels, around $650. Originally found it on TB did a search can’t find where.
 
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