WEATHER My all night freezing vigil

Doc1

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Soooo... here it is 03h15 and 23 degrees and I'm still sitting up on an all night weather vigil. Why, you might ask. Because of our pipes.

It's supposed to get down to 20 or lower a bit later and I have to keep the wood stove fed , the propane heater going and the water running so our pipes don't freeze. The pipes are the really big deal. I have to keep the water running to avoid the pipes freezing and splitting, but I have to do it slowly to avoid overflowing our septic system. It's a bit of a balancing act and since there are various water outlets throughout the place I have to monitor all of them.

The good news is that our house was built on piers so I can access most of the piping rather easily for repairs - I rebuilt and re-plumbed the entire house when we bought this place - but that's also the bad news since the elevated structure does little to keep the pipes warm. Nearly all of the piping is insulated, but it's all exposed and the insulation only helps to a limited degree. Keeping the house warm actually does help warm the pipes a bit as it provides a small layer of somewhat warm air immediately beneath the structure.

I'm not complaining, mind you but am only sharing a little slice of one of the less glamorous aspects of homestead life as I sit here living on coffee, watching an old World War II movie and minding the dogs who might want to go outside to do their business.

DW is sleeping in a nice warm bedroom and she sweetly offered to stay up for part of the night. I told her I'd wake her up at 03h00 so she could stand part of the water pipe watch ... but I lied. Since she beat her cancer years ago she's been easily fatigued and I'll let her sleep all night.

Best
Doc
 
Samuel Adams

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Now this may not work at all for you, Doc.....but, being way further north than you...... :) .......I have many times surrounded the cabin foundation with junk hay or straw bales of a winter, which makes a huge difference in firewood consumption and median temp in the house, even though walls and ceiling are well insulated.

Each spring, those bales (by then rather heavy with accumulated moisture) are carted off to the garden to be used as mulch.

In your case, if you could even get a couple otherwise defunct semi trailer tarps to wrap with and keep out wind/retain some ground heat ?

I do reminisce to those days of old when I did maintain running water, and the chore it was to thaw that one little stretch of pipe, all the way back in a tight crawl space, about any time the temps plunged to -10 and down.

Hence the beginning of the haybale wrap.
 
colonel holman

colonel holman

Veteran Member
My Mom’s mobile home had one cold spot underneath where pipes came up from ground from well and snaked into house. That would freeze easily. We ran some decent wiring down to it to a 60w light bulb fixture, and surrounded that area with a box of foam panels. Keeping that light on during cold winter periods stopped the predictable pipe freezeups.

We have had 3 days of below zero temps. Yesterday early AM was -20F (without wind chill). I was headed out coyote hunting but cancelled when I saw saw temps. They hunters reported later that it was -25 on their truck thermometers when they got to th hunting jump-off spot. I have hunted at those temps before, just to be able to say I did it, but never again. Those temps hurt like a good solid bitchslap to the face.

Right now it is -5 and due to get colder just as the sun comes up (rising sun warms upper air levels, causing air to rise, pulling the much colder air that was lying at ground level in the lower hollows. Should get to -10 to -15 by 9am. Subzero nights predicted for the next 7-9 days. Routine is to re-fill wood stove at 1, 4, 7am through the night. That has saved us hundreds of $$ in heating oil so far this winter.

It would help if we got more snow; only about a foot on the ground so far. Once we have 2+ ft on ground, that moderates temps and naturally banks the foundation of house to insulate from bitter cold. Sucks when you can use snow as an insulator, though. Ours is a log home and that does well to insulate and hold interior heating
 
Last edited:
Samuel Adams

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
colonel holman said:
Sucks when you can use snow as an insulator, though
Click to expand...

That is my other go-to when temps are long duration below zero and there is snow available.

There have been years when the bale wrap was in place, there was plenty snow available and the temps went to -20 and kinda stayed there.
Wind or no, the house was amazingly comfortable, after banking extensively with snow, without those normal high fluctuations of temp between wood stove cycles.....and I have always heat exclusively with wood.
 
Sherrynboo

Sherrynboo

Veteran Member
My area was forecast to have a low of 20 last night/this morning but so far we only got to 26. Only have to keep two faucets dripping, one in the kitchen and one in an outbuilding. Wood stove did a great job although I did have to get up and load it around 2 am. Heat pump is set at 60 but it never came on.
 
Henry Bowman

Henry Bowman

Veteran Member
Samuel Adams said:
Now this may not work at all for you, Doc.....but, being way further north than you...... :) .......I have many times surrounded the cabin foundation with junk hay or straw bales of a winter, which makes a huge difference in firewood consumption and median temp in the house, even though walls and ceiling are well insulated.

Each spring, those bales (by then rather heavy with accumulated moisture) are carted off to the garden to be used as mulch.

In your case, if you could even get a couple otherwise defunct semi trailer tarps to wrap with and keep out wind/retain some ground heat ?

I do reminisce to those days of old when I did maintain running water, and the chore it was to thaw that one little stretch of pipe, all the way back in a tight crawl space, about any time the temps plunged to -10 and down.

Hence the beginning of the haybale wrap.
Click to expand...
Good advice.
Doc try this with a few lamps with 100w bulbs and it should do the trick.

Hope it warms up for you.
 
anney

anney

Veteran Member
Doc1 said:
Soooo... here it is 03h15 and 23 degrees and I'm still sitting up on an all night weather vigil. Why, you might ask. Because of our pipes.

It's supposed to get down to 20 or lower a bit later and I have to keep the wood stove fed , the propane heater going and the water running so our pipes don't freeze. The pipes are the really big deal. I have to keep the water running to avoid the pipes freezing and splitting, but I have to do it slowly to avoid overflowing our septic system. It's a bit of a balancing act and since there are various water outlets throughout the place I have to monitor all of them.

The good news is that our house was built on piers so I can access most of the piping rather easily for repairs - I rebuilt and re-plumbed the entire house when we bought this place - but that's also the bad news since the elevated structure does little to keep the pipes warm. Nearly all of the piping is insulated, but it's all exposed and the insulation only helps to a limited degree. Keeping the house warm actually does help warm the pipes a bit as it provides a small layer of somewhat warm air immediately beneath the structure.

I'm not complaining, mind you but am only sharing a little slice of one of the less glamorous aspects of homestead life as I sit here living on coffee, watching an old World War II movie and minding the dogs who might want to go outside to do their business.

DW is sleeping in a nice warm bedroom and she sweetly offered to stay up for part of the night. I told her I'd wake her up at 03h00 so she could stand part of the water pipe watch ... but I lied. Since she beat her cancer years ago she's been easily fatigued and I'll let her sleep all night.

Best
Doc
Click to expand...
You are a keeper sir.
 
DazedandConfused

DazedandConfused

Veteran Member
I have one faucet at the far end of the house that tends to freeze when temps drop below freezing and stay there for days. I opened to a slow drip and added a heat tape wrap on the pipe leading up from the crawl space. So far its working . I have not had to go to extra lengths to keep pipes from freezing in a long time .
 
F

fish hook

Deceased
Doc1 said:
Soooo... here it is 03h15 and 23 degrees and I'm still sitting up on an all night weather vigil. Why, you might ask. Because of our pipes.

It's supposed to get down to 20 or lower a bit later and I have to keep the wood stove fed , the propane heater going and the water running so our pipes don't freeze. The pipes are the really big deal. I have to keep the water running to avoid the pipes freezing and splitting, but I have to do it slowly to avoid overflowing our septic system. It's a bit of a balancing act and since there are various water outlets throughout the place I have to monitor all of them.

The good news is that our house was built on piers so I can access most of the piping rather easily for repairs - I rebuilt and re-plumbed the entire house when we bought this place - but that's also the bad news since the elevated structure does little to keep the pipes warm. Nearly all of the piping is insulated, but it's all exposed and the insulation only helps to a limited degree. Keeping the house warm actually does help warm the pipes a bit as it provides a small layer of somewhat warm air immediately beneath the structure.

I'm not complaining, mind you but am only sharing a little slice of one of the less glamorous aspects of homestead life as I sit here living on coffee, watching an old World War II movie and minding the dogs who might want to go outside to do their business.

DW is sleeping in a nice warm bedroom and she sweetly offered to stay up for part of the night. I told her I'd wake her up at 03h00 so she could stand part of the water pipe watch ... but I lied. Since she beat her cancer years ago she's been easily fatigued and I'll let her sleep all night.

Best
Doc
Click to expand...
Insulated underpinning is your friend. Years ago i bought a double wide and it sets up about 3 feet. the first winter we were in it was very cold. Blew every pipe in it. After laying in water at 15 degrees all day, i decided i didn't like it, so i set about changing things. I insulated all the pipes and installed under pinning backed with sheets of Styrofoam, if temps go below 18 i still run a little water. Have had no problems almost 20 years later.
 
NoDandy

NoDandy

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Doc1 said:
Soooo... here it is 03h15 and 23 degrees and I'm still sitting up on an all night weather vigil. Why, you might ask. Because of our pipes.

It's supposed to get down to 20 or lower a bit later and I have to keep the wood stove fed , the propane heater going and the water running so our pipes don't freeze. The pipes are the really big deal. I have to keep the water running to avoid the pipes freezing and splitting, but I have to do it slowly to avoid overflowing our septic system. It's a bit of a balancing act and since there are various water outlets throughout the place I have to monitor all of them.

The good news is that our house was built on piers so I can access most of the piping rather easily for repairs - I rebuilt and re-plumbed the entire house when we bought this place - but that's also the bad news since the elevated structure does little to keep the pipes warm. Nearly all of the piping is insulated, but it's all exposed and the insulation only helps to a limited degree. Keeping the house warm actually does help warm the pipes a bit as it provides a small layer of somewhat warm air immediately beneath the structure.

I'm not complaining, mind you but am only sharing a little slice of one of the less glamorous aspects of homestead life as I sit here living on coffee, watching an old World War II movie and minding the dogs who might want to go outside to do their business.

DW is sleeping in a nice warm bedroom and she sweetly offered to stay up for part of the night. I told her I'd wake her up at 03h00 so she could stand part of the water pipe watch ... but I lied. Since she beat her cancer years ago she's been easily fatigued and I'll let her sleep all night.

Best
Doc
Click to expand...
Good for you Doc1 !! :sal:

You are truly a gentleman, and a scholar !!!

Take care !!!

Regards
 
T

TidesofTruth

Veteran Member
Is your homestead power limited? I definitely would have to choose a heat tape option if it were me and power was prevalent. I just couldn't take the risk or worry about this year on year. I use to install these in industrial applications back in the early 90s and it worked extremely well. I am sure the technology is light years ahead of where it was then. Its a bit over a buck a foot and 3 watts a foot to run.
 
Signwatcher

Signwatcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Bought me a manufactured home in a "community," back in September. The office sent a newsletter reminding residents to turn on the switch to the pipe warming wire. Didn't know anything about this, so I asked the maintenance guy and he came out and said it was on and would prevent broken pipes in the winter.
 
db cooper

db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
Having lived in a trailer house most of my life I can relate to the freezing pipes. Our current home is a troublewide on piers. We started heating exclusively with wood and my bathroom water lines froze. The lines are this pex stuff which does not burst when frozen. What was learned is that the propane furnace needs to be running at night, this puts heat into the floor which keeps the water lines from freezing. It also means one of us does not have to get up in the middle of the night to rebank the stove.

I recommend anyone with perpetual freezing lines to convert the typically freezing ones to pex. At least then when they freeze you will not have to go through the miserable job of fixing them, most likely in a puddle of water, in the middle of the winter.

I used to run a trailer court, and learned a lot. Dripping faucets will plug a sewer line where temps get to zero or colder. The theory is the drip slowly goes down the sewer pipes to the coldest spot and freezes. The next drip comes along and freezes. This process continues until the line is plugged with ice.

So now my least favorite plugged line story. A tenant complained of a plugged sewer line and insisted it was the trailercourt lines and not hers. My first questions always had to do with what was flushed down the toilet, such as diapers, women's sanitary thingys, etc. She said she has never flushed anything like that. So I low crawl under her trailer over to where her sewer line plugs into the ground connector. I nudged the line and it popped off. Out came gallons of raw sewage including several of her bloody white mice and brown trout, of which were laying next to my face. I was in a puddle of sewer soup on my belly and simply could not get away fast enough. Talk about stink, talk about being pissed off.
 
db cooper

db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
Millwright said:
A few minutes to drain and blow down the water system is the price of a good night's sleep.
Click to expand...
We have a compressed air quick disconnect plumbed to our pipes in the water heater room. Hook an air compressor line to it, turn a few valves, set the regulator to about 50 and open all water faucets etc until they bleed air. Takes roughly a half hour once the compressor is set up.

This should be done to any home subject to freezing when one goes on a trip for several days. Don't forget to shut the water heater off and drain it too as well as pour RV antifreeze in the traps and toilet.
 
Freeholder

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
Too late for this winter, but could you add a shunt to your plumbing, so on nights like this, you could shunt the drain water away from the septic tank and leave the water in the house running at an adequate level to keep it from freezing? I'm sure that enclosing your crawl space would make a huge difference, but in your climate that may not be a good idea, so for the rare really cold night, shunting the water to some other location might be all you need to do.

I've been leaving the water in the kitchen sink running most of the last few weeks -- there's an opening in the house foundation just below the kitchen sink (access to the crawlspace, has no door on it) and that's the one place that will freeze up on cold nights. With the water running, it hasn't been an issue at all.

Kathleen
 
CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Doc1 said:
Soooo... here it is 03h15 and 23 degrees and I'm still sitting up on an all night weather vigil. Why, you might ask. Because of our pipes.

It's supposed to get down to 20 or lower a bit later and I have to keep the wood stove fed , the propane heater going and the water running so our pipes don't freeze. The pipes are the really big deal. I have to keep the water running to avoid the pipes freezing and splitting, but I have to do it slowly to avoid overflowing our septic system. It's a bit of a balancing act and since there are various water outlets throughout the place I have to monitor all of them.

The good news is that our house was built on piers so I can access most of the piping rather easily for repairs - I rebuilt and re-plumbed the entire house when we bought this place - but that's also the bad news since the elevated structure does little to keep the pipes warm. Nearly all of the piping is insulated, but it's all exposed and the insulation only helps to a limited degree. Keeping the house warm actually does help warm the pipes a bit as it provides a small layer of somewhat warm air immediately beneath the structure.

I'm not complaining, mind you but am only sharing a little slice of one of the less glamorous aspects of homestead life as I sit here living on coffee, watching an old World War II movie and minding the dogs who might want to go outside to do their business.

DW is sleeping in a nice warm bedroom and she sweetly offered to stay up for part of the night. I told her I'd wake her up at 03h00 so she could stand part of the water pipe watch ... but I lied. Since she beat her cancer years ago she's been easily fatigued and I'll let her sleep all night.

Best
Doc
Click to expand...
Once you become an old man this won't be a problem.

Where as old men tend to have to get up and go to the bathroom.....

Which is usually the time to also check on the wood heater and reload, flush the toilet, pushing through at least one gallon of water, renewing all the water in the pipes. All the while keeping a drip going in the sink.

It was 21 here this AM and a balmy, makes one want to go swimming in the local creek, 18 yesterday AM. For extra insurance we opened all the cabinet doors too.

At 21 I almost wanted to put my wife beater t-shirt on to walk the dog. NOT!

We also had a single brick in the propane. As the night wears on the wood burns up, and the single brink keeps it from getting to cold before I have to get up and.........stoke the fire.

See, being a young whipper snapper, what you've got to look forward to. LOL
 
CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
db cooper said:
Yes they do. Care must be used or they become a fire hazard. Ours burnt a hole in the pex water line which obviously caused a water leak. We are lucky it never started a fire. It shorted itself out on a sharp part of a clamp it was wrapped over by the folks that set the trailer up.
Click to expand...
If you're going to go to all that trouble just redo the water lines with expanding pipe. If it freezes the line expands, and then contracts to normal when it thaws.

Just saying.
 
db cooper

db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
CaryC said:
If you're going to go to all that trouble just redo the water lines with expanding pipe. If it freezes the line expands, and then contracts to normal when it thaws.
Click to expand...
That's not practical in zones where the outside temps are freezing beginning around November and ending around March. To wait for them to thaw means being without water for about 5 months. Heat tapes are a necessity.
 
L

Locknload

Contributing Member
Doc1 said:
Soooo... here it is 03h15 and 23 degrees and I'm still sitting up on an all night weather vigil. Why, you might ask. Because of our pipes.

It's supposed to get down to 20 or lower a bit later and I have to keep the wood stove fed , the propane heater going and the water running so our pipes don't freeze. The pipes are the really big deal. I have to keep the water running to avoid the pipes freezing and splitting, but I have to do it slowly to avoid overflowing our septic system. It's a bit of a balancing act and since there are various water outlets throughout the place I have to monitor all of them.

The good news is that our house was built on piers so I can access most of the piping rather easily for repairs - I rebuilt and re-plumbed the entire house when we bought this place - but that's also the bad news since the elevated structure does little to keep the pipes warm. Nearly all of the piping is insulated, but it's all exposed and the insulation only helps to a limited degree. Keeping the house warm actually does help warm the pipes a bit as it provides a small layer of somewhat warm air immediately beneath the structure.

I'm not complaining, mind you but am only sharing a little slice of one of the less glamorous aspects of homestead life as I sit here living on coffee, watching an old World War II movie and minding the dogs who might want to go outside to do their business.

DW is sleeping in a nice warm bedroom and she sweetly offered to stay up for part of the night. I told her I'd wake her up at 03h00 so she could stand part of the water pipe watch ... but I lied. Since she beat her cancer years ago she's been easily fatigued and I'll let her sleep all night.

Best
Doc
Click to expand...
Ever thought of heat tape? They use on mobile homes.
 
nomifyle

nomifyle

TB Fanatic
DH is a native of Illinois, he repaired and renovated mobile homes and he's a believer in heat tapes, he was just looking them up, said it was cheaper to replace the pipes. However, he does not realize just how much everything has gone up in price.

Good on you Doc, you are a gentleman and scholar.

God is good all the time

Judy
 
Griz3752

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon
TidesofTruth said:
Is your homestead power limited? I definitely would have to choose a heat tape option if it were me and power was prevalent. I just couldn't take the risk or worry about this year on year. I use to install these in industrial applications back in the early 90s and it worked extremely well. I am sure the technology is light years ahead of where it was then. Its a bit over a buck a foot and 3 watts a foot to run.
Click to expand...
I can attest to how well this works. I rented a house on 40 acres for a few years when I worked in Prince Albert SK (look it up on a map; that's real winter. Not as cold, as long as some other places but, it was enough.)

The heat tapes are a one-and-done proposition but, depending on usage, have a life cycle. I added 3 incubator bulbs in key areas (corners) and never had a problem.
 
H

hd5574

Veteran Member
2dollarbill said:
heat tape is your friend. Unplug it when it is not needed.

2db
Click to expand...
We had pipes that froze but heat tape stopped that...not longer have to mess with light bulbs or keeping water running..just plug it in and go to bed... we dropped to 11.5 here in central Virginia at couple of nights ago....and with heat tape good to go.
 
M

marsofold

Veteran Member
We have a 100 year old house in northern WV with no insulation. The water comes into the house straight up from the ground into the bathroom next to the tub. I put a single layer of cloth around the feed pipe, then wrapped multiple layers of heavy duty aluminum foil around the cloth to spread the heat laterally, then wrapped the foil with SELF-REGULATING heat tape and zip ties to hold it in place, then another layer of cloth, then a final layer of aluminum foil to waterproof everything, and finally many zip ties around the total assembly. The heat tape is self-regulating, meaning that it does NOT depend on a thermostat to keep temps under control. I measured the power input to it with a Kill-A-Watt meter and found it to be like 15 watts. We leave it plugged in year round since it draws negligible power in warm weather. And we set a drip in the kitchen to around one drop per five seconds. I wish we had pex pipes instead of the older type that can break from freezing. It was 3 degrees here a few days ago and no ice breaks here.
 
W

WalknTrot

Veteran Member
I learned early in Minnesota life to never rely on heat tape. The darned stuff only lasts 2-3 years, and you never know it isn't working until it's too late and your pipes are froze.
 
bbbuddy

bbbuddy

DEPLORABLE ME
I'll say heat tape too!
Heck I'm off grid but still use heat tape on my well head pipe and two places where exposed water pipe enters an rv and a small cabin. If you pick the right ones, they only use about 3 watts per foot.

Between heat tape and closing off your crawl space you should be "good to go".

But there is also this dandy gadget:
1642964275212.png

If you have an outdoor faucet at the far end of your water line, put one of these on, open the faucet, and direct the drips away from your foundation. Works for outdoor hoses too.

I would trust heat tape more though. No moving parts to break.
 
bbbuddy

bbbuddy

DEPLORABLE ME
WalknTrot said:
I learned early in Minnesota life to never rely on heat tape. The darned stuff only lasts 2-3 years, and you never know it isn't working until it's too late and your pipes are froze.
Click to expand...
Well I've had heat tape last for twenty years, so like anything out there, you just never know.

A wireless thermometer sensor taped to the pipe by a heat tape run would let you know of failure.
I use wireless sensors in several places, including in my lithium battery box which is in an unheated shed. It's a large cooler, with a ceramic aquarium heater head under the batteries.(25 watts)
I can tell exactly what the temp is in there all the time.
 
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