Homestead preps vs Bugout preps

[Birdlady]

OK..the scenario:
All is prepped at the homestead, suburbia in our case.
Got lots of canned food and bottled water (rain water too), meds, plants on patio and small garden, etc...most of what we might need for a several weeks/months in a "crash".

BUT...now "what if" our home becomes for some reason uninhabitable, or we must evacuate to our "bug out" place?

It's in a remote rural location.
Just an old Airstream trailer, a shallow well, and NO power or other "facilities". We have an AquaRain filter out there, and some canned goods,rice, pasta, TP, and pots and pans, kitchen utensils, propane (and extra bottles) cooker as well as wood/charcoal grill, rakes, shovels etc.... but it gets hot and cold (SC Texas) with no regulation.

How would y'all prep for such a place?

Looking forward to suggestions.

Thanks!

 

[timbo]

Start researching solar panels and battery backup. Would be perfect with the sunshine you should get. There is a lot of stuff here at TB to at least get you started.

Think about getting a propane pig delivered.

Definitely start digging an outdoor john. Stock up on lye for it.

Buy more ammo.....

 

[The Freeholder]

You might also consider a surplus shipping container, maybe buried or hidden somehow, filled with more food, weapons if you desire, clothing, books, water, tools, tarps, seeds, communications gear and so on and so forth. Face it, if you've had to bug out, things must have gotten pretty bad in suburbia. You might be stuck there for days, months or even years. Best to be as ready as you can be.

 

[LoupGarou]

I would pick up:
For power, lights, pump, and communications:
5 twenty watt flexible solar panels (much more durable if needed to move again) form http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZvitabon (email her to see if she can get another 5 pack of the 20W units (~$700) together, she gets them from globalsolar.com (ICP)). Yes, they are more expensive than a 120 watt polycrystaline panel, but you can't roll up a glass panel and stick all 5 in a camera bag like you can with these. Also, these will take hail and vandalism abuse better than a rigid panel. You can also find them through http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtoystrQQhtZ-1 and http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsun_wind_fireQQhtZ-1 but they cost a bit more. (If you decide to go with a rigid panel, buy a sheet of lexan if you worry about looters/vandals).
2 Trojan L-16 batteries (good for small solar photovoltaic systems)
1 seven amp solar charge controller ( http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...?storeId=6970&productId=200265524&R=200265524 ) or even better, a 30 amp version ( http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...?storeId=6970&productId=200310683&R=200310683 ), which will allow you to add more panels later.
1 DC 12V water pump ( http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...ductDisplay2?storeId=6970&productId=527&R=527 ), or the more powerful ( http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...Display2?storeId=6970&productId=37142&R=37142 )
2 or 3 DC 12V fluorescent "stick" lights (sold at auto parts stores for ~$10)
1 Evereeady NiMH 1 hour (white, from walmart) battery charger. This unit will work off of 12V DC directly.
Grundig FR-200 SW/AM/FM crank-up radio (or better, like Sangean)
1 pair (pack) of FRS/GMRS radios

For heating/cooling:
Solar (air) heat collector:
Aluminum/steel flashing (16"x50' roll)
Two sheets of plywood (back of collector)
Two sheets of plexiglass (front of collector)
1"x4"x8' pine boards (6) (baffles in unit)
2"x4"x8' pine boards (8) (sides of unit)
4 cans of Rustoleum Flat Black spray paint
2 DC 12V 4" (or bigger if you can find them) fans (computer "muffin" fans).
Cheap thermostat that has "AC/cool" function.
Wire to run to the L-16 batteries, form the fan and thermostat.

Swamp cooler:
2 or 4, DC 12V fans (like above)
Small 12V DC "decorative" water fountain pump (like used in ponds). You can even find these on eBay with solar panels already packaged as a kit.
20"x20"x1" or 20"x20"x2" Blue Poly furnace/AC air filter (do not use pleated paper models, you need the poly ones)
Plastic trough or concrete mixing tray to hold fans, filter, pump, and water. Pump trickles water over surface of poly filter as the fans blow air through it. Not perfect, but it does work in the lower humidity climates like AZ, NM, and NV (and I believe TX).

Loup Garou

 

[LC]

Also consider some guerella (sp) gardening. Such as, some fruit trees or bushes, maybe some elephant garlic or other garlic, some shallots or potato onions, some jerusalem artichokes. These are all things that will survive with little or no tending and be there to feed you if they are needed. You could also cultivate a garden spot and plant it seasonally with cover crops so that it would be ready for production if needed. Keep seed at the bugout location. Keep garden tools there also.
Guerilla gardening is gardening that really doesn't look like a planted garden but provides food. Depending on your particular location it might mean just taking some care of the native plants already on the property.

 

[okie medicvet]

No matter whether a place is rural or suburban, I would recommend a bomb shelter of some kind. If your place is a trailer, I would have an 'expedient' one at least made and in place, so you won't have to rush to make one when time is of the essence.

 

[north runner]

OK..the scenario:
All is prepped at the homestead, suburbia in our case.
Got lots of canned food and bottled water (rain water too), meds, plants on patio and small garden, etc...most of what we might need for a several weeks/months in a "crash".

BUT...now "what if" our home becomes for some reason uninhabitable, or we must evacuate to our "bug out" place?

It's in a remote rural location.
Just an old Airstream trailer, a shallow well, and NO power or other "facilities". We have an AquaRain filter out there, and some canned goods,rice, pasta, TP, and pots and pans, kitchen utensils, propane (and extra bottles) cooker as well as wood/charcoal grill, rakes, shovels etc.... but it gets hot and cold (SC Texas) with no regulation.

How would y'all prep for such a place?

Looking forward to suggestions.

Thanks!

32 foot BO trailer packed and ready to go. Its hard to have two places totally stocked. I'd have to bring my atv, diesel gen tools and all that good stuff. If you're under attack at your home in the burbs you will have to move what you can or lose it.

 

[idelphic]

I agree with Loup. But I am also looking to try to stay away from powered anything.. Solar is great,... batteries do fail over time. Genracs are great,.. fuel runs out.

Grab you a 40' SeaPak and bury it. as far down as pratical,... Use with has been around for millions of years with no maint - Earth.

If you can swing 2 or more SeaPaks even better.. Many people have turn them into houses,... You'd never know the difference. You can partition the space out for shop, tool storage, food storage, etc.

In the summer, use a summer kitchen... cook outside. Keep as much heat generating items outside,.. but the in winter, reverse it.

Most of all,.. try to make everything dual purpose... Don't waste anything if you can.

 

[Todd]

Loup has a lot of good suggestions but I'd want to ask a lot more questions such as:

What time-frame are you preparing for? 6mo, a year, forever?

Are you psychologicaly suited to real rural living?

Will other family members/friends be joining you? Will you be able to feed them if they just show up?

How much money do you have?

Is your aim to be totally self-sufficient?

Where are you located, that is, climate, nearby towns, etc.

Will you eventually want to replace the Airstream with a house? Which leads to: Will you be using materials from your land?

What rural skills do you have? In other words, can you hunt, fish, carpenter, plumb, do mechanics, fell trees, grow food, be an electrician, etc.?

If you plan to live there "forever", do you have enough water to irrigate your crops (assuming this is necessary)? And, can you preserve your crops? Will you want livestock?

The list of questions would go on for some length. It would only be after you had painted a complete picture that anyone could really answer your question.

Todd

 

[Birdlady]

This is what I wrote initially:

["OK..the scenario:
All is prepped at the homestead, suburbia in our case.
Got lots of canned food and bottled water (rain water too), meds, plants on patio and small garden, etc...most of what we might need for a several weeks/months in a "crash".

BUT...now "what if" our home becomes for some reason uninhabitable, or we must evacuate to our "bug out" place?

It's in a remote rural location.
Just an old Airstream trailer, a shallow well, and NO power or other "facilities". We have an AquaRain filter out there, and some canned goods,rice, pasta, TP, and pots and pans, kitchen utensils, propane (and extra bottles) cooker as well as wood/charcoal grill, rakes, shovels etc.... but it gets hot and cold (SC Texas) with no regulation.

How would y'all prep for such a place?

Looking forward to suggestions.

Thanks![/I]

Loup has a lot of good suggestions but I'd want to ask a lot more questions such as:

What time-frame are you preparing for? 6mo, a year, forever?

6 mos to a year....possibly forever

Are you psychologicaly suited to real rural living?
yes

Will other family members/friends be joining you? Will you be able to feed them if they just show up?
Yes, in a limited time frame; 6 mos to a year

How much money do you have?
limited funds at the moment

Is your aim to be totally self-sufficient?
eventually....

Where are you located, that is, climate, nearby towns, etc.

Hot and humid Texas.....about 40 miles north of Houston...rural place is about 60 miles north of Houston bordered on 3 sides by nat'l forest.

Will you eventually want to replace the Airstream with a house? Which leads to: Will you be using materials from your land?
Yes, the Airstream is an interim place when we are able to afford to build.

What rural skills do you have? In other words, can you hunt, fish, carpenter, plumb, do mechanics, fell trees, grow food, be an electrician, etc.?

We're not expert skilled in all these areas..will need help, but we can hunt and fish,do some mechanics, some elctrical, fell trees without danger, grow some food,....

If you plan to live there "forever", do you have enough water to irrigate your crops (assuming this is necessary)? And, can you preserve your crops? Will you want livestock?

Yes, there's water to irrigate crops, tho it wil lbe tedious in the begininng... we have a shallow well.

The list of questions would go on for some length. It would only be after you had painted a complete picture that anyone could really answer your question.

I'm trying to paint a complete picture and your questions help me do that....

We're just an average "joe doe" family, with a country place we used to enjoy....

I didn't mention that our road access has been limited, by people bought in front of us, and we're probably going to have to go to court to gain our right of way........arghhhh. We have a right of way of 20', but it's gonna cost a bundle to get a road in, around the Forest path.
In the meantime, we're having to use the Forest service fire break clearings/path to get to our place.
Todd

BUT, my main issue is, (I think), how to prep in 2 different scenerios? We have our main preps, and then our "OTHER" place.....are we so unique that there are not others in this situation?

 

[Birdlady]

oops

 

[north runner]

oops

There's always a catch in every good BO plan.

Looks like you may have to walk over sheeple to get to/occupy your property. An armed bug in, I suppose, and then you encourage them to remove themselves from the area

 

[LoupGarou]

Actually the solar panels and the charge controller will fit into a medium sized camera bag (I will try to post pictures later). This enables you to carry the panels and charge controller with you as you are bugging out. All that is left is to have a set of L16s (or deep cycle trolling batteries if you do not want the expense of the L16s), at each location. You can even go one step further and put the two batteries on a frame made around a handtruck and that way the whole thing is portable (JUST DANG HEAVY). The camera bag, lights and other goodies can be put on top of the battery box.

And yes, the key to living in a BO situation is having the will to WANT to survive in a BO situation.

Loup Garou

 

[Donald Shimoda]

OK..the scenario:
All is prepped at the homestead, suburbia in our case.
Got lots of canned food and bottled water (rain water too), meds, plants on patio and small garden, etc...most of what we might need for a several weeks/months in a "crash".

BUT...now "what if" our home becomes for some reason uninhabitable, or we must evacuate to our "bug out" place?

It's in a remote rural location.
Just an old Airstream trailer, a shallow well, and NO power or other "facilities". We have an AquaRain filter out there, and some canned goods,rice, pasta, TP, and pots and pans, kitchen utensils, propane (and extra bottles) cooker as well as wood/charcoal grill, rakes, shovels etc.... but it gets hot and cold (SC Texas) with no regulation.

How would y'all prep for such a place?

Looking forward to suggestions.

Thanks!

Howdy, Folks!


First suggestion - don't tell anybody about the BO place.

Will other family members/friends be joining you? Will you be able to feed them if they just show up?
<b>Yes, in a limited time frame; 6 mos to a year</b>

Oopsie. So much for that. Time for Plan C - new, undisclosed location.

Where are you located, that is, climate, nearby towns, etc.

<b>Hot and humid Texas.....about 40 miles north of Houston...rural place is about 60 miles north of Houston bordered on 3 sides by nat'l forest.</b>

DEFINITELY time for Plan C - Houston will come to you in case of a crisis.

For temperature control - think deep. Like digging into the earth. Easier to stay cool(and being a fellow Texan, we both know that's the main issue here).



My advice - get AWAY from that area, if you can.

I am working mightily to get out of Texas; Missus Shimoda and I have found an undisclosed location that is remote, suits our needs, and no one wil be coming to that we can be comfortable in year around without electricity. We're *hoping* to be there by early 2007 at the latest. I pray we won't be too late.

Good luck to you and yours.

 

[Todd]

Birdlady,

I want to give you a more in-depth reply but we are dealing with about 14" of snow right now...we lucked out, I've heard that it is 4' at higher elevations.

I'll post a real reply tomorrow.

Todd

 

[Todd]

Ok, here goes...

Let's take it from the top: Essentially you have what you have and really can't afford big bucks right now to do anything fancy. But, you want to be prepared at your bug out location and home.

The cheapest and simplest thing I can think of is to buy a cargo trailer that you can keep at your house. You could use it to store your prep supplies at home but you would be able to hook it up to your truck (I'm guessing you have a truck if you drive on Forest Service roads). Now, I have to say there is a risk in this if TSHTF and you can't get home to get it. However, it does mean your preps can do double duty.

You certainly need to expand your stored food. There are lots of companies out there selling storage food packages. You could asseble a basic one by looking at what is in the packages and save money. J.C. Refuge advertises here so you might check his site. You could also check companies such as Emergency Essentials (BePrepared.com).

One other advantage of the trailer is that you could use it as a bunkhouse if others show up. It might be cozy but it would beat being outside. Which reminds me; if others know of your place and "might" show up, I'd hit them up for money to add food, soap, whatever to your supplies. Call it insurance if you have to. But I'd make it clear they aren't welcome and will be asked to leave right away if they don't contribute.

On the heat/cooking front, why don't you consider a small box heater. These have a flat top that could be used for cooking if the propane runs out and warm you in the winter. On the cooling front, there are lots of 12volt PV fans available. To get an idea of what's available check Real Goods (realgoods.com) or Loup's links. Their prices are high but they carry a lot of stuff.

On the well, how do you pump it? If it uses a motor, you might consider a hand pump. Many places sell them. You might also look for an old stock windmill. I'll bet someone has one laying in a barn.

For food, besides hunting, you might also consider gathering or putting in a simple Indian garden. Two books I like are:

Native Harvests - American Indian Wild Foods and Recipes by E. Barrie Kavasch, ISBN 0-486-44063-X and Buffalo Bird Woman's Garden (The classic account of the Hidatsa American Indian gardening techniques) by Gilbert L. Wilson, ISBN 0-87351-219-7.

It might also help you get a handle on it all by reading a couple of fictional accounts (beside Tom Sherry's of course):

The Bug Out - a short story of a bug out gone bad

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172494

And another quite long one about the aftermath of an EMP

http://www.giltweasel.com/stuff/LightsOut-Current.pdf


Well, there's more but this is a start.

Todd

 

[hitssquad]

All that is left is to have a set of L16s (or deep cycle trolling batteries if you do not want the expense of the L16s)

Deka sells dry-charged batteries that don't age.

 

[LoupGarou]

Deka sells dry-charged batteries that don't age.

Yep, I use them for some of my remote Amateur radio equipment. But keep in mind that the dry charge part is just a shipping/storage advantage, not an in-use advantage. I was thinking that if they put them on a cart or handtruck, they could use them at their main place, and when TSHTF locally, take them when they bugged out. On the Dekas, just like all Lead Acid batteries, once you put the electrolyte in, it starts the lifecycle going. The Deka's dry-charged, just means that you don't have to charge them after filling them, before their first use. So, yes, they make excellent prep batteries, sort of like those old Zinc-Air "D" cells that they made for flashlights. As long as the hole was covered and the seal was unbroken on the Zinc-Air batteries, you had batteries at the ready. Once the seal is popped, and the air goes in, the calendar starts, just as with the Dekas, unfortunately.

I am researching the new Lithiums from A123 systems, and as soon as I can get my hands on the samples, I will post the news. They do look promising, even to the point of not having a problem with 100% discharge. Until then, I will stick with my old reliable AGMs (Yuasa telco style,very dependable, and cheap to get when used), and keep them on standby charge.


Actually, if you are looking for something BOBable, simpler, and cheaper than the 5 pack of big panels, charge controller and L16 batteries, Northern sells a 5 watt folding panel for $34. If you get 4 of them, you can charge a smaller AGM battery ($30) and/or use a NiMH 1 hour charger (Eveready (white cased unit) $20, Walmart) directly. All four panels take the same space in my pack as a good sized book, and the rest is even smaller. Not as much capacity, but it is a whole lot lighter than trying to lug two L16s through the wooded path.

Loup Garou

 

[hitssquad]

I am researching the new Lithiums from A123 systems

They will not be cost-effective for stationary power.

 

[LoupGarou]

They will not be cost-effective for stationary power.

I know, I am looking at them for a more durable, low self discharge, portable storage chemistry. Right now I have a couple hundred AGMs and several hundred NiMHs, which work fine, but the NiMHs either have to stay on standby charge at C/50, or I have to charge them up every 4 months. And the AGMs aren't exactly lightweight. I converted all of my portable Amatuer radios that used NiCds and NiMHs over to LI+, designed new protection and charging circuitry, and they work fine (although seeing my Kenwood TH-78As with a set of Sony LI+ cells sticking out the bottom of the old pack is still Frankenstein-ish). I am waiting to see if their technology hits soon. They are making car battery sized units now, several test units have made it into university hands, for testing in EVs. I wouldn't mind getting ahold of a few of them either, but I am mainly interested in a replacement for the NiMHs and their 4 month draindown issue.

Loup Garou

 

[Mongo]

Indians lived there for centuries with "no regulation" - you could study up on what they did.

You could have a couple dumptruck loads of coal delivered out there and poured into a pre-dug trench. Then just cover it up with a few inches of dirt - it's already millions of years old - it won't go bad. Get a coal burner to stay warm.

Cache as much stuff out there as possible. Food, water, and meds come to mind.

Study and start practicing how to grow crops of whatever kind out there.

Build a cabin out there - leave it unlocked.

I like the idea of putting in a fallout shelter but I suspect you cannot afford it right now. Get a copy of "Nuclear War Survival Skills" read it, gather the proper materials now.

 

[Todd]

I have L-16's for my PV system - 32 of them to be exact. I think it's especially crucial to use desulfonators to extend their life as much as possible, especially in a SHTF scenario since once the batteries die the system is a daylight only set-up. Further, it becomes impossible to run heavy loads, that is, loads that exceed the output of the system without the batteries acting as a buffer.

Todd

 

[Birdlady]

Thank you all for some very thought provoking replies...much food for thought and action.

Thanks.

 

[LoupGarou]

I have L-16's for my PV system - 32 of them to be exact. I think it's especially crucial to use desulfonators to extend their life as much as possible, especially in a SHTF scenario since once the batteries die the system is a daylight only set-up. Further, it becomes impossible to run heavy loads, that is, loads that exceed the output of the system without the batteries acting as a buffer.

Todd

Desperate times call for desperate measures. You can take a dremel tool (or my favorite, the RSX) and open the top of the battery by slitting the top of the sides. Once done, you can clean/rebuild the plates on some of the batteries out there. There are even ones that the top comes off from the factory, and the plated are setup to be able to be removed. I agree with the idea and use of the desulfators as well as a once a month (or two) equalization charge (not every chance it gets). I also believe heavily in MPPT chargers, and the price of them is dropping quickly too.

If worse comes to worse, you can buy lead plate, dimple (or even drill) it yourself, and make your own batteries using it and spontex (those green scrubby-pads) pads as the seperator. A poor man's AGM battery.

NiFe is the other option, and most of them are user repairable. And you can make your own Sodium Hydroxide.

Necessity is either the mother of invention, or if you are not prepared mentally, just a mother.

Loup Garou

 

[okie medicvet]

Ok, here goes...

Let's take it from the top: Essentially you have what you have and really can't afford big bucks right now to do anything fancy. But, you want to be prepared at your bug out location and home.

The cheapest and simplest thing I can think of is to buy a cargo trailer that you can keep at your house. You could use it to store your prep supplies at home but you would be able to hook it up to your truck (I'm guessing you have a truck if you drive on Forest Service roads). Now, I have to say there is a risk in this if TSHTF and you can't get home to get it. However, it does mean your preps can do double duty.

You certainly need to expand your stored food. There are lots of companies out there selling storage food packages. You could asseble a basic one by looking at what is in the packages and save money. J.C. Refuge advertises here so you might check his site. You could also check companies such as Emergency Essentials (BePrepared.com).

One other advantage of the trailer is that you could use it as a bunkhouse if others show up. It might be cozy but it would beat being outside. Which reminds me; if others know of your place and "might" show up, I'd hit them up for money to add food, soap, whatever to your supplies. Call it insurance if you have to. But I'd make it clear they aren't welcome and will be asked to leave right away if they don't contribute.

On the heat/cooking front, why don't you consider a small box heater. These have a flat top that could be used for cooking if the propane runs out and warm you in the winter. On the cooling front, there are lots of 12volt PV fans available. To get an idea of what's available check Real Goods (realgoods.com) or Loup's links. Their prices are high but they carry a lot of stuff.

On the well, how do you pump it? If it uses a motor, you might consider a hand pump. Many places sell them. You might also look for an old stock windmill. I'll bet someone has one laying in a barn.

For food, besides hunting, you might also consider gathering or putting in a simple Indian garden. Two books I like are:

Native Harvests - American Indian Wild Foods and Recipes by E. Barrie Kavasch, ISBN 0-486-44063-X and Buffalo Bird Woman's Garden (The classic account of the Hidatsa American Indian gardening techniques) by Gilbert L. Wilson, ISBN 0-87351-219-7.

It might also help you get a handle on it all by reading a couple of fictional accounts (beside Tom Sherry's of course):

The Bug Out - a short story of a bug out gone bad

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172494

And another quite long one about the aftermath of an EMP

http://www.giltweasel.com/stuff/LightsOut-Current.pdf


Well, there's more but this is a start.

Todd

damn, but if I hadn't already planned on staying up tonight that first story would have done it..one helluva sad cautionary tale.

Am reading the second link now. man..