FLU REMEDY from ADVANCED TREATISE IN HERBOLOGY

[Moggy]

FLU AND COLD REMEDY ELDER AND PEPPERMINT

No one will die from pneumonia with this remedy.

2 oz dried elder flowers
2 oz cut/sifted peppermint

Place ingredients into 1 1/2 pints of boiling water, cover and steep in a hot place for 30 minutes. Strain, sweeten with honey, and drink the whole as hot as possible while closely covered in bed.

Cover a hot water bottle with a cloth or towel dipped in vinegar and place to the feet. In a few minutes there will be a copious perspiration, the pulse will slow down and the patient will sleep peacefully for hours.

Author: Dr. Edward E. Shook

 

[Be Well]

Moggy, I planned to start a thread for flu treatments, if you wouldn't mind changing the title of this one to a more general "Flu Treatments and Remedies" sort of thing, this could be it. But if you want to keep the thread as it is, I will start a new general one. IMHO it would be more useful to just have one flu remedy/treatment thread, since you started this one, it's up to you.

 

[TXKajun]

Great idea, ya'll. Thanks for what will be a VERY useful thread.

Kajun

 

[summerthyme]

Moggy- this really concerns me, with H1N1, and possibly (God forbid!) H5N1 in the mix..

Elderflower is a fairly potent immune stimulator. I don't know if anyone has done any studies on whether or not it stimulates inflammatory cytokines, or only the non-inflammatory ones (or possibly both).

But with H1N1, I'm very leery of using anything known to increase the body's immune response...

Summerthyme

 

[Moggy]

Moggy, I planned to start a thread for flu treatments, if you wouldn't mind changing the title of this one to a more general "Flu Treatments and Remedies" sort of thing, this could be it. But if you want to keep the thread as it is, I will start a new general one. IMHO it would be more useful to just have one flu remedy/treatment thread, since you started this one, it's up to you.

Be Well, I prefer that this thread stand alone for the reason that the remedies in Advanced Treatise are exceptional for healing. I think Vicki has already begun what you seek to do, as per her own remedy, see what you can work out with her.

 

[Moggy]

Moggy- this really concerns me, with H1N1, and possibly (God forbid!) H5N1 in the mix..

Elderflower is a fairly potent immune stimulator. I don't know if anyone has done any studies on whether or not it stimulates inflammatory cytokines, or only the non-inflammatory ones (or possibly both).

But with H1N1, I'm very leery of using anything known to increase the body's immune response...

Summerthyme

Summerthyme, please note the title of my thread...it states "Flu Remedy"...not H1N1. What I have posted is a specific remedy for simple flu...or a regular cold. As far as I know, there are three types of flu going around: simple flu, H1N1, and H5N1.

Perhaps I should have titled the thread FLU PREVENTION. At the moment I am too tired to think straight, however, I am glad that you raised the issue to the point where I shall engage in research.

Best to you.

 

[Moggy]

Searching the web I found this rather interesting information:

A virus is a small particle that needs a host cell to reproduce. The cold, rhinovirus, likes to use the cells lining the mucous membrane in your nose to reproduce. The flu, influenza virus, likes to use the cells lining the mucous membrane of your upper respiratory tract to reproduce. Both viruses do NOT like to live in warm temperatures. That is why they don’t infect the lower respiratory tract and are inhibited when you raise your internal temperature by one degree with a fever! Once the virus is in your cell, it hacks into your DNA in the nucleus and tells your cell to stop production of whatever it was making and start making the virus! The DNA in your nucleus is the place where your cell has the code for making all it needs. Now that the host cell is “infected” with the virus it will make viral particles until they fill the cell and literally, break it open and kill it. At this point the viral particles move on to the next host cell. How do we defend against this since our immune cells really can’t get into our own cells?

Our body has evolved to defend against viruses with a multi-pronged approach. First, there are cells continually policing the blood looking for viruses. When they find them, they ingest them, break them down and recycle the parts. Second, when a cell is infected by a virus it sends out a chemical flare called a cytokine to tell other cells, “There’s a virus in the house! Batten down the hatches. Don’t let it in!” Uninfected cells receive the message and tighten up their cell membranes so the virus can’t get in. This is where Elder comes in. It increases the cells tightening up their defense against viruses getting in and it increases cytokine production, which attracts cells to help with the infections, signals uninfected cells to decrease their permeability to the virus and decrease viral replication inside the cell. Wow!

http://tammisweet.com/336/

Further information, this about Sambucol and the safety of elderberry with regard to cytokine stimulation:

Sambucol may therefore be beneficial to the stimulation of the immune system in healthy individuals, as well as in patients with influenza, cancer and HIV, which have decreased immune functions.

http://www.jle.com/en/revues/bio_rech/ecn/e-docs/00/01/60/95/article.md

 

[Be Well]

Be Well, I prefer that this thread stand alone for the reason that the remedies in Advanced Treatise are exceptional for healing. I think Vicki has already begun what you seek to do, as per her own remedy, see what you can work out with her.

Thank you for your response, Moggy. I was thinking a general thread for people to post their own experiences - what worked, what did not, what people know about treatments for flu, etc. I respect your wish to keep this focused as you state.

And just so you know, the only flu circulating now at least in the US and Canada is swine H1N1, a very small amount of Type B (generally not serious) and that's it. There is no other type of flu right now (other than the one case of H5N1).

 

[Be Well]

The flu, influenza virus, likes to use the cells lining the mucous membrane of your upper respiratory tract to reproduce. Both viruses do NOT like to live in warm temperatures. That is why they don’t infect the lower respiratory tract and are inhibited when you raise your internal temperature by one degree with a fever.

This is true for regular seasonal flus, generally speaking. Unfortunately, this time, swine H1N1, at least some of the samples that have been sequenced, has gained a genetic marker that is enables the viruses to replicate deeper in the lungs where it is warmer. This does a couple of things; makes it harder sometimes to get a sample from the patient for testing purposes since the virus is deeper into the lungs, and also causes much more severe illness and causes serious lung damage, often very quickly. This marker was found in lung tissue samples from one or two persons who died from the 1918 flu, too. It was also prevalent in 2009 in Ukraine, which had a terrible time with swine flu in November and December with many deaths and much severe illness.

That is one of the main reasons this flu is worse than "garden variety" seasonal flu.

 

[Moggy]

And just so you know, the only flu circulating now at least in the US and Canada is swine H1N1, a very small amount of Type B (generally not serious) and that's it. There is no other type of flu right now (other than the one case of H5N1).

Good morning, Be Well. According to reports, there are a few different types of flu circulating in Georgia...here's a blurb:


According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Georgia was one of 28 states reporting widespread flu the last week of December.

This year's mix includes the H1N1 strain, which made its debut in a 2009 pandemic as "swine flu." It was so powerful in 2009 because it was brand new, O'Neal said. Since then it hasn't been as destructive, because people became immune. However, he said, it may have mutated a bit, making people vulnerable again.

Other flu strains are making the rounds, too, and this year's vaccine is designed to combat four different varieties.


Read more: http://medcitynews.com/2014/01/9-people-reportedly-dead-flu-georgia/#ixzz2q0oWQR7J

 

[Pinecone]

So, with H1N1 circulating, should we be using the elderberry syrup or not? It is in our county and I have advised family to take the elderberry syrup twice a day as a prophylactic since we have an immediate family member who is immunodeficient.
Thanks in advance.
Pinecone

 

[bluelady]

And how do you know when it's really h1n1? Just heard third hand of someone in our area, works with people in our church, who is dying of "incurable viral pneumonia"?!? I don't know quite what to recommend to my (grown) kids to do for prevention....

 

[summerthyme]

Pinecone- note that it's elderFLOWER that is the immune stimulant, NOT the elderberries!! But this is why there was some confusing info on "elder" not being recommended for flu a few years ago- people were confusing the immune stimulating abilities of the elderflower with the flu fighting ability of elderBERRY. Elderberry does NOT stimulate inflammatory cytokines, and is safe...

This is the problem with using the very old treatises on herbs and natural medicine- they have immense value, but the science just wasn't there at the time. They knew that elderflower helps people with common colds and pneumonia, and well... people died of pneumonia and flu all the time, so it wasn't considered unusual if they died even after "treatment" with elderflower tea or whatever.

We're only now beginning to be able to separate out the various plant parts and the chemical constituents, to understand how and why they work. And I'm NOT in favor of separating out only the "active" chemicals and turning them into de facto "drugs"- I firmly believe God designed the various herb plants with their complex chemical makeups, to work as WHOLE herb medicine. I suspect- but don't have any proof- that the reason curcumin (as long as you take some whole turmeric root with it) doesn't cause the serious cardiac issues that all Rx COXX2 inhibitors do (curcumin is a COXX2 inhibitor, just like Celebrex and Vioxx- but there are no known problems with it causing problems with the heart) because there is *something* else in the whole root that protects the heart from damage, or otherwise ameliorates the potential effects.

At this time, *this year*, because of the prevalance of H1N1, and the severity of the disease it's causing in many people, including "previously healthy" ones, I personally wouldn't use elderFLOWER to treat anything except what you know is just the common cold. Elderberry, OTOH, seems to be the only real first line of defense we have against it, and I'll keep suggesting to people that they keep it on hand at home, read to start treating flu at the first hint of symptoms.

None of this is meant to say anything againt Moggy or the book she found- elderflower is excellent for heavy chest colds, or NON-FLU causes of pneumonia. It's just that we've learned more now since the book was published...

Summerthyme

 

[Pinecone]

Thanks so much for the clarification, Summerthyme. From my own research, I was comfortable with the elderberries, but this year the stakes are so much higher for us. I am trying to learn so much about so many different subjects.

Thanks again to all of you. It is one thing to read books and articles, its another to have recommendations from someone who has actually used them and has years of personal experience.

Pinecone

 

[bluelady]

Ok, so Sambucol would be fine? I'll find out what's up with this guy this afternoon, ds is going to visit hi. I'm NOT for that, but the dr. said it's not a contagious virus?!?? I also read here, trying to find it( but I'm at work so trying to do that too!) that D3 is good and safe. I'm getting together a bag of stuff for them.

 

[Vicki]

Well reading up on inflammatory cytokines brings me to the conclusion that this is another fancy name to scare the crap out of everyone which further suppresses the immune system and makes one more susceptable to getting sick. This is of course my own opinion and everyone has the right to their own.

Do I think the immune system can be over stimulated? Of course I do and that's why inflammatory cytokines were brought forth. On the other hand are inflammatory cytokines hormones?

Wikipedia says this....

Biochemists disagree as to which molecules should be termed cytokines and which hormones. As we learn more about each, anatomic and structural distinctions between the two are fading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine

This brings me to the point of an over stimulated immune system.

Think of this as a battle ground and you (immune system) are sitting in a foxhole guarding your area from unwanted and/or harmful invaders. You know where they usually arrive from and are on guard. You feel strong and capable. All of a sudden as an army of invaders comes into view, you are swarmed from all sides. There's too many of them and you frantically try to fend them off until you are at a point of collapsing. What to do?

When you become frantic, you cannot systematically take on this challenge. The franticness comes from an over active adrenal system. Fight or flight syndrome.

You don't want to run, you want to fight but you need to do this in a calm systematic way to maintain your position.

Calming, balancing and strengthening are called for.

You're body does this naturally when you are sleeping but in todays world of the onslaughts of so many toxins and stress, our adrenals are generally overloaded and these super bugs are aggressive.

Me personally would take borage to balance and strengthen my adrenal gland and garlic to boost my immune system and fight infection as well as other vitamins, minerals and herbal preparations. I would also be very cautious on my diet avoiding mucus forming foods and drinks.

For some further study, here are a couple of links explaining herbal and vitamin treatment for the adrenal glands and the immune system.

http://www.herbsfirst.com/dr-christopher-formulas/adrenal.html

http://www.herbsfirst.com/dr-christopher-formulas/supergarlicimmune.html

http://www.herbsfirst.com/dr-christopher-formulas/immucalm.html

Also you might find this Free Health analysis informative.

http://www.westernbotanicals.com/en/analysisfrm.html

I took it and found just about exactly what I already knew except for one thing, my respiratory system was in the best shape and I've smoked for 45 years. Go figure. Could it be my taking mullein leaf and other herbal formulas has kept my lungs clear? My doctor's in the past have been impressed.

I'll attach my chart.

So all in all, I'm not disputing other people's advice on these flu bugs and the direness of them when one gets sick. My advice is my own and I believe in avoiding these illness's as much as humanly possible. I also believe in educating myself on what my body does and needs and as my sig line says... let your food be your medicine and your medicine be your food. Herbs, vitamins and minerals are food. Good luck to all in learning what's best for yourselves and in staying healthy!

blessings'
Vicki

 

[Dux]

Are we supposed to take elderberry syrup as a prophylactic? The instructions on the box say 4 teaspoons a day. Seems like a lot.

 

[summerthyme]

Dux... yes, it does seem to work as a prophylactic. We take it twice a day (we take a tablespoon at a time of the homemade syrup, but it's likely that's overkill) to prevent flu, and immediately step it up to 4-6 times a day if symptoms occur.

Since it works by preventing the virus from reproducing (and also from latching on to our cells), it needs to be taken frequently... if you don't have any in your system when you are exposed to the virus, it will start multiplying until you take your next dose.

Summerthyme

 

[bluelady]

And how do you know when it's really h1n1? Just heard third hand of someone in our area, works with people in our church, who is dying of "incurable viral pneumonia"?!? I don't know quite what to recommend to my (grown) kids to do for prevention....

Update..turns out this man had viral pneumonia that was greatly complicated by diabetes...his blood sugar was over 400 at admission. They were able to get it under control and he's now doing better. NOT H1N1 thankfully; I was afraid either they didn't know or weren't saying. Time to order elderberries!

 

[Heretic]

FLU AND COLD REMEDY ELDER AND PEPPERMINT

No one will die from pneumonia with this remedy.

2 oz dried elder flowers
2 oz cut/sifted peppermint

Place ingredients into 1 1/2 pints of boiling water, cover and steep in a hot place for 30 minutes. Strain, sweeten with honey, and drink the whole as hot as possible while closely covered in bed.

Cover a hot water bottle with a cloth or towel dipped in vinegar and place to the feet. In a few minutes there will be a copious perspiration, the pulse will slow down and the patient will sleep peacefully for hours.

Author: Dr. Edward E. Shook

Something to be aware of is that some people are allergic to elder plants.
I found out News Years Eve that I am so blessed.
I was more then a little surprised because I had taken elderberry extract before with no issues.
However hives, restricted airways etc showed me the 'error of my ways'.
I tested it again last night, not all that bright, and after one teaspoon of elderberry elixir I had moderate severe allergic response. Hives, bad wheezing etc.

This is a real bummer because elderberry worked so well for me in the past.

Terry

 

[summerthyme]

Terry- I'm very interested: was that a commercial product? If so (or if not), what were the ingredients? Absolutely, it's possible to be allergic to elderberry (it's possible to be allergic to almost ANYthing, including sunlight and cold!) but it's very rare. You're only the second person I've heard of to have a reaction.

Summerthyme

 

[Vicki]

Something to be aware of is that some people are allergic to elder plants.
I found out News Years Eve that I am so blessed.
I was more then a little surprised because I had taken elderberry extract before with no issues.
However hives, restricted airways etc showed me the 'error of my ways'.
I tested it again last night, not all that bright, and after one teaspoon of elderberry elixir I had moderate severe allergic response. Hives, bad wheezing etc.

This is a real bummer because elderberry worked so well for me in the past.

Terry

That's too bad Terry. I'm wondering if a simple patch test would be the way to go for anyone taking herbal preps. A patch test could be done by taking the plant itself or a couple of drops of the tincture, etc and rubbing it into the inner fold of the elbow. Don't wash it off and wait up to 24 hours. If there's an allergic reaction, you would break out in hives or a rash or something of that nature but it would be very mild. If that happens, DON'T comsume it.

I figure I'd put that out there as it may help someone.

Blessings'
Vicki

 

[Heretic]

Terry- I'm very interested: was that a commercial product? If so (or if not), what were the ingredients? Absolutely, it's possible to be allergic to elderberry (it's possible to be allergic to almost ANYthing, including sunlight and cold!) but it's very rare. You're only the second person I've heard of to have a reaction.

Summerthyme

My cousin who is a MD and microbiologist made it from home grown (in her backyard) Elder berries.
I have sent her an email requesting a list of the ingrediants, but I suspect is simple Eldeberry extract without any fancy additives. She is a bit of a traditionalist.

Terry

 

[Heretic]

Terry- I'm very interested: was that a commercial product? If so (or if not), what were the ingredients? Absolutely, it's possible to be allergic to elderberry (it's possible to be allergic to almost ANYthing, including sunlight and cold!) but it's very rare. You're only the second person I've heard of to have a reaction.

Summerthyme

My cousin just emailed me her ingredients.

1/2 cup dried elderberries
1 cinnamon stick
5 whole cloves
1 TBSP freshly grated ginger


I am allergic to ginger!!!!!
That may explain it. Her daughter will bring some gingerless elderbery extract over for me to test.

Silly me. I assumed that elderberry extract had elderberry and maybe some alcohol, I didn't realize it often had other 'things' in it.

I am not allegic to cold air but it can trigger an asthma event.

Exercise is also one of my triggers.

Back in Junior High I frequently missed Gym class. Something about a kid turning purple due to an asthma attack that kind of freaks PE teachers out.

Terry

 

[summerthyme]

AH... that's why I asked about the ingredients!! It sounds like you- with your asthma and allergy issues- are one who would benefit from making your own.

Summerthyme

 

[Heretic]

AH... that's why I asked about the ingredients!! It sounds like you- with your asthma and allergy issues- are one who would benefit from making your own.

Summerthyme

Any suggestions? or directions?

I kind of know my way around a chem lab.....

Terry

 

[Tristan]

Moggy, thanks for this thread. The more information and strategies to deal with illness, the better!

Summerthyme, what modern resources would you recommend to a person to learn about the healing properties of botanicals/herbs?

Thanks to all.

- Tristan