Repub Donald Trump or Ted Cruz? Republicans Argue Over Who Is Greater Threat

Mixin

Veteran Member
By JONATHAN MARTIN JAN. 21, 2016

WASHINGTON — With Donald J. Trump and Senator Ted Cruz battling for the Republican nomination, two powerful factions of their party are now clashing over the question: Which man is more dangerous?

Conservative intellectuals have become convinced that Mr. Trump, with his message of nationalist-infused populism, poses a dire threat to conservatism, and released a manifesto online Thursday night to try to stop him.

However, the cadre of Republican lobbyists, operatives and elected officials based in Washington is much more unnerved by Mr. Cruz, a go-it-alone, hard-right crusader who campaigns against the political establishment and could curtail their influence and access, building his own Republican machine to essentially replace them.

The division illuminates much about modern Republicanism and the surprising bedfellows brought about when an emerging political force begins to imperil entrenched power.

The Republicans who dominate the right-leaning magazines, journals and political groups can live with Mr. Cruz, believing that his nomination would leave the party divided, but manageably so, extending a longstanding intramural debate over pragmatism versus purity that has been waged since the days of Barry Goldwater and Nelson Rockefeller. They say Mr. Trump, on the other hand, poses the most serious peril to the conservative movement since the 1950s-era far-right John Birch Society.

Rich Lowry, the editor of National Review — embracing the role of his predecessor, William F. Buckley, who in the 1960s confronted Birch Society members — reached out to conservative thinkers to lend their names to the manifesto against Mr. Trump. He drew on some of the country’s leading conservatives, including Erick Erickson, William Kristol and Yuval Levin, to write essays buttressing the argument that Mr. Trump had no commitment to restraining the role of government and possessed authoritarian impulses antithetical to conservative principles.

“Donald Trump is a menace to American conservatism who would take the work of generations and trample it underfoot on behalf of a populism as heedless and crude as The Donald himself,” the magazine said in an editorial accompanying the manifesto, titled “Against Trump.”

Peter Wehner, a longtime conservative writer, said: “He’s not a conservative, he’s an angry populist. It would be dangerous if the party or movement hands control over to him.”

Yet many members of the Republican influence apparatus, especially lobbyists and political strategists, say they could work with Mr. Trump as the party’s standard-bearer, believing that he would be open to listening to them and cutting deals, and would not try to take over the party.

“He’s got the right personality and he’s kind of a deal-maker,” said Bob Dole, the former Republican senator and 1996 presidential candidate.

Of course, this willingness to accommodate Mr. Trump is driven in part by the fact that few among the Republican professional class believe he would win a general election. In their minds, it would be better to effectively rent the party to Mr. Trump for four months this fall, through the general election, than risk turning it over to Mr. Cruz for at least four years, as either the president or the next-in-line leader for the 2020 nomination.

And, even if Mr. Trump somehow found his way into the White House, the longtime Washington hands envision him operating as a pragmatist, leaving their power unchecked.

“We can live with Trump,” said Richard F. Hohlt, a veteran lobbyist, reflecting his colleagues’ sentiment at a Republican National Committee meeting last week in Charleston, S.C. “Do they all love Trump? No. But there’s a feeling that he is not going to layer over the party or install his own person. Whereas Cruz will have his own people there.”

Moreover, some say that Mr. Trump’s campaign could serve as a much-needed release valve for a Republican electorate.

The debate essentially revolves around what is more important — who controls the party, or what the party stands for.

It is a reminder that, even in the mainstream of the Republican Party, there are competing interests and values. Some of the intellectuals view the other faction as crass mercenaries more interested in protecting their access than in fighting for lofty principles. The lobbyists, strategists and elected officials perceive the intellectuals as aloof ideologues who do not have to worry about getting elected, building coalitions or governing.

Some of what turns the Washington class of operatives and elected officials away from Mr. Cruz, and toward Mr. Trump, is personality.

Mr. Cruz is viewed by many Republicans in Washington as stubborn and overweening. They say his record of attacking his Senate colleagues and taking relentlessly hard-line positions shows that he would have difficulty unifying the party.

If Mr. Cruz were the party’s nominee, said Charles R. Black Jr., a lobbyist who has worked on numerous Republican presidential campaigns, “what would happen is a lot of the elected leaders and party elders would try to sit down and try to help Cruz run a better campaign, but he may not listen. Trump is another matter.”

“You can coach Donald,” Mr. Black said. “If he got nominated, he’d be scared to death. That’s the point he would call people in the party and say, ‘I just want to talk to you.’ ” He must be talking about another Donald Trump :lol:

Mr. Trump is also a recognizable type in the political world. A wealthy businessman, he has given money to donation-hungry candidates for decades, often welcoming the supplicants to his Manhattan office. He has also employed a small stable of lobbyists in Washington, such as Mr. Black, and in state capitals to promote his real estate and casino empire. He has had large law and lobbying firms on retainer.

Mr. Kristol, the editor of The Weekly Standard, said the personal contempt for Mr. Cruz among some Republican insiders was blinding. “Cruz is so hated in Washington that there’s this distortion about him that he’s outside the bounds of what is plausible in American politics,” he said.

But some establishment-aligned figures, while acknowledging their disdain for Mr. Cruz, said the case against him was not merely personal. They argue that Mr. Trump has the potential to bring out new voters, who may also vote for Republicans lower on the ballot. They predict that Mr. Cruz would draw support in only a handful of states and would reorient the party around a hard-line conservatism.

“Trump won’t do long-lasting damage to the G.O.P. coalition,” said John Feehery, a Capitol Hill aide turned lobbyist. “Cruz will.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/22/u...ican-establishment.html?mtrref=undefined&_r=0
 

Josie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The apparent fact is that either one of them has establishment GOP running scared. That's all I need to know!
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Since Cruz's dad was not a US Citizen, as per constitutional requirements, at the time of his birth, I have no idea why we are even having this discussion. Cruz is the most dangerous, and since he studied constitutional law he should know better.
 

Be Well

may all be well
Since Cruz's dad was not a US Citizen, as per constitutional requirements, at the time of his birth, I have no idea why we are even having this discussion. Cruz is the most dangerous, and since he studied constitutional law he should know better.

Nor born on US soil, and held Canadian citizenship until less than 2 years ago. And claimed he did not know that! It is still unknown if (a) his mother had become a Canadian and if she was still US citizen (b) she registered little Rafael's birth at the Consulate with a specified and short period of time as required by law.
 

lojoma

Veteran Member
I support Cruz and will not quit until he does. Trump j yesterday "hyperbollically" announced that his blind supporters would support him even if he shot someone. Your man is laughing at you, you will follow someone who would committ a crime because it is a cult. Its a cult of personality, with the same healthcare plan as Sanders. Surreal.
 

Mixin

Veteran Member
I support Cruz and will not quit until he does. Trump j yesterday "hyperbollically" announced that his blind supporters would support him even if he shot someone. Your man is laughing at you, you will follow someone who would committ a crime because it is a cult. Its a cult of personality, with the same healthcare plan as Sanders. Surreal.

Did you listen to what he actually said? OR are you just repeating the headlines?
 

JF&P

Deceased
I support Cruz and will not quit until he does. Trump j yesterday "hyperbollically" announced that his blind supporters would support him even if he shot someone. Your man is laughing at you, you will follow someone who would committ a crime because it is a cult. Its a cult of personality, with the same healthcare plan as Sanders. Surreal.

Well, If trump shot someone, he'd have a reason...and I WOULD STILL SUPPORT HIM!!!!

BTW I actually listened to/watched him make that statement. (Think Context People!)







BUILD THE FRICKING WALL!!!! CRUZ wouldn't............
 

Be Well

may all be well
I support Cruz and will not quit until he does. Trump j yesterday "hyperbollically" announced that his blind supporters would support him even if he shot someone. Your man is laughing at you, you will follow someone who would committ a crime because it is a cult. Its a cult of personality, with the same healthcare plan as Sanders. Surreal.

Oh, could you explain how his healthcare plan is the same as Sanders? Details so I can compare and asses, tia.
 

FarmerJohn

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I support Cruz and will not quit until he does. Trump j yesterday "hyperbollically" announced that his blind supporters would support him even if he shot someone. Your man is laughing at you, you will follow someone who would committ a crime because it is a cult. Its a cult of personality, with the same healthcare plan as Sanders. Surreal.

Are you trying to drum up support for Sanders?
 

lojoma

Veteran Member
Yes I saw Trump on the news make his shooting gesture and brag about his "loyal" people who would never abandon him if he shot someone, they are just so "loyal". What excuses do you make for the comment, "hyperbole, the art of the deal?" Its sick. a cult "I could shoot someone and my followers will never leave me." If Trump wins, it is going to be the same as Sanders, maybe even worse. It won't matter. I can not understand anyone who looks at the life Trump has lived, at the age of 60 endorsing partial birth abortion, praising Hillary Clinton over and over donating a lot of money to Michael Bloomberg, the Clintons, borrowing money intending to go bankrupt and leave contractors with nothing and call him a conservative or decent man. He gets up and talks tough and a bunch of sheep fall into line. He is Obama all over again. It is amazing to me. I wish us all luck if this pandering fool gets into power, another petty king who will stack the courts and you can kiss your 2A rights good bye. Look at what they have DONE. Not what they have SAID. Cruz is 100% right about that....otherwise, over and out. I hope all of us at TB make it through what is coming. Maybe it is good your man will be at the helm for that. I should know better by now than to discuss politics but I am just shaking my head at how easily people are tricked by smoke, mirrors and reality shows. Whatever, time will tell. I won't give up until its all over but the cryin'. Carry on Trump lovers.
 

Mixin

Veteran Member
We Trump supporters have looked at him very closely. In fact, we've had 7 months of people picking his bones on every issue possible. Yes, he has changed his positions over the years; I admit I have, too. I don't see a problem with it.

What I will have a problem with is if he changes his positions since he entered the race. So far, he has stayed true; unlike another candidate I can think of.

You need to educate yourself on your candidate and then come back and talk to me.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
I support Cruz and will not quit until he does. Trump j yesterday "hyperbollically" announced that his blind supporters would support him even if he shot someone. Your man is laughing at you, you will follow someone who would committ a crime because it is a cult. Its a cult of personality, with the same healthcare plan as Sanders. Surreal.

You're following Cruz, who is blatantly breaking constitutional law. Brilliant.
 

lojoma

Veteran Member
I could shoot someone and "my people" will never leave me. That is cult talk.

Also in case you doubted the character of this candidate, I worked a Cruz event, huge blocks of tickets were reserved under the name "Canadian Cruz, Trump Rocks, Trump for President" to try to keep Cruz supporters from attending. Luckily we figured it out by getting in to the website where reservations were made and the actual people of character who were denied tickets due to Democrat style Shenanigans from supporters of Mr. Lets Make a Deal were able to attend. It was a capacity crowd, at least 2k. So, you can have him, he may win but it won't be fairly, and best wishes to you. Such an admirable man, I thought Michelle Obama rapping in the white house was bad, can't wait to see what style a former nude centerfold brings to the Peoples House.
 
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packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
I could shoot someone and "my people" will never leave me. That is cult talk.

Also in case you doubted the character of this candidate, I worked a Cruz event, huge blocks of tickets were reserved under the name "Canadian Cruz, Trump Rocks, Trump for President" to try to keep Cruz supporters from attending. Luckily we figured it out by getting in to the website where reservations were made and the actual people of character who were denied tickets due to Democrat style Shenanigans from supporters of Mr. Lets Make a Deal were able to attend. It was a capacity crowd, at least 2k. So, you can have him, he may win but it won't be fairly, and best wishes to you. Such an admirable man, I thought Michelle Obama rapping in the white house was bad, can't wait to see what style a former nude centerfold brings to the Peoples House.

He was quoting what someone else had said about him, and there's a thread about that comment here but the MSM cut off the part where he said

"and they say about me that I could shoot someone and my people will never leave me"

Gullible much?
 

Be Well

may all be well
I could shoot someone and "my people" will never leave me. That is cult talk.

Also in case you doubted the character of this candidate, I worked a Cruz event, huge blocks of tickets were reserved under the name "Canadian Cruz, Trump Rocks, Trump for President" to try to keep Cruz supporters from attending. Luckily we figured it out by getting in to the website where reservations were made and the actual people of character who were denied tickets due to Democrat style Shenanigans from supporters of Mr. Lets Make a Deal were able to attend. It was a capacity crowd, at least 2k. So, you can have him, he may win but it won't be fairly, and best wishes to you. Such an admirable man, I thought Michelle Obama rapping in the white house was bad, can't wait to see what style a former nude centerfold brings to the Peoples House.

Where was his wife a nude centerfold? I saw a photo of her on the cover of or inside GQ and she was on a rug and you couldn't see much of anything, on her front lying. Of course risque but hardly a nude centerfold. You think the Trump supporters trying to get into Cruz' thing were authorized by Trump or just individuals doing it? I think we all know the answer to that one.

BTW I'm waiting for evidence to back up your assertion that Sanders' and Trump's health care plans are identical.
 

sunny225

Membership Revoked
http://www.inquisitr.com/2361041/melania-knauss-trump-the-donald-trump-wife-number-three/

I guess you'll keep waiting, I will go bash my head against a brick wall for a while. More productive. Rude much?

Yes, I think you should go bash your head against a brick wall for awhile. :)
That was a hit piece on Trump's wife. What the hell difference does it make if she did "pose nude"?

What Trump said was that the polls say that he could go shoot somebody & his supporters would still support him. He was bragging on his poll numbers & the fact that his supporters were very loyal.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Yes, I think you should go bash your head against a brick wall for awhile. :)
That was a hit piece on Trump's wife. What the hell difference does it make if she did "pose nude"?

What Trump said was that the polls say that he could go shoot somebody & his supporters would still support him. He was bragging on his poll numbers & the fact that his supporters were very loyal.

France's president was a super model and she posed nude, so big whup!
 

Willow

Veteran Member
Did you listen to what he actually said? OR are you just repeating the headlines?

I read the quote. He said someone said he could shoot someone and he wouldn't lose voters. Notice he didn't dispute that statement and thought enough of it to mention it in his speech. All that matters to him is that his followers will not question anything he does. So far whoever said that appears to be correct. If he was concerned about that statement he would have said something to indicate he didn't think they would blindly follow him anywhere.

Willow
 

bev

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I think/hope Trump's "followers" are questioning everything, and there are potentially 9 more months for them to do it.

If Trump wins, we all need to prepare ourselves for a massive makeover of the White House, as well as much more lavish and expensive vacations. As to the WH makeover, I hope they'll keep it reasonable and tasteful, and not over the top (thinking of Melania's wedding dress).
 

Buick Electra

TB2K Girls with Guns
I could shoot someone and "my people" will never leave me. That is cult talk.

Also in case you doubted the character of this candidate, I worked a Cruz event, huge blocks of tickets were reserved under the name "Canadian Cruz, Trump Rocks, Trump for President" to try to keep Cruz supporters from attending. Luckily we figured it out by getting in to the website where reservations were made and the actual people of character who were denied tickets due to Democrat style Shenanigans from supporters of Mr. Lets Make a Deal were able to attend. It was a capacity crowd, at least 2k. So, you can have him, he may win but it won't be fairly, and best wishes to you. Such an admirable man, I thought Michelle Obama rapping in the white house was bad, can't wait to see what style a former nude centerfold brings to the Peoples House.

No ones' won "fairly" since Ronald Regan Lojoma. ALL have employed 'dirty politics.' Lojoma, are you a gen X,Y, or Z? I ask because you seem not to know our history. You might want to educate yourself on that.
 

Wise Owl

Deceased
The French are different.

Trump is attacking Clinton for what her husband did while in office. It seems odd that he would do that when he's change wives so many times.

He's been married 3 times. So have I and my dh. We have been together for over 16 years now. Looks like this one is a keeper.
Lot's of people have been married mulitple times. Not all of us were lucky enough to marry the "right one" the first or second time around.

So, what's that got to do with tea in china? Or whether Melania posed for a nude photo? She still has more class than Moochele ever had or others I can think of and yes, I mean republican first ladies also......

How anyone can vote or back a candidate who was born in another country with non citizen parent/s.......is beyond me. But then I have read the Constitution. I have one. Had this copy for a very long time now. Always good to check just to make sure someone is misquoting it.......That happens a lot.

We have already had one illegally elected non citizen type as prez. How'd that work out for you people? Not so good with all that hope and change stuff?

I used to have respect for Cruz but I have lost it in the past couple weeks. ALL OF IT>! He is mean and nasty. He lies.
As to Donald's speech and the gun thing? He was quoting someone else. Get a grip people and don't believe everything you read. Like Donald says in every speech. The media take bites of what he says and twists them to their own agenda. They are all liers and bought and paid for shills........ALL OF THEM....
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
The French are different.

Trump is attacking Clinton for what her husband did while in office. It seems odd that he would do that when he's change wives so many times.

He's changed wife's what three times? Bill kept the same wife and slept with probably hundreds of women.
 

Be Well

may all be well
I'm still hoping to read details of Sanders' and Trump's health care plans to see how identical they are.
 
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