WOKE Defenders Make Last-Ditch Effort To Halt Pentagon From Tearing Down Arlington Cemetery Reconciliation Monument

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
Defenders Make Last-Ditch Effort To Halt Pentagon From Tearing Down Arlington Cemetery Reconciliation Monument

Advocates are pursuing a last-ditch attempt to save the Confederate Memorial at the Arlington National Cemetery from the Army’s all but inevitable push to tear down most elements of the statue perceived to honor the Confederacy.

Since a congressional commission recommended dismantling the monument in September 2022, giving a deadline of January 1, 2024, the Army and Arlington National Cemetery (ANC) have completed nearly every step in the process of tearing it down. Defend Arlington, which has fought to preserve the monument, filed a lawsuit in November saying that the Department of Defense (DOD) is bulldozing past requirements and ignoring public opinion, court documents show.

Defend Arlington filed a request for an injunction in a District of Columbia court on Nov. 21. The court has not granted the request as the Army’s projected date to take down the monument looms

“The Memorial represents a symbol of reconciliation aimed at healing a country divided during a brutal sectional war and reconstruction,” Defend Arlington wrote.

“We do not believe the Army will reverse the decision, unless the Court or Congress make them. Sadly, the ‘march through the institutions’ has infected the U.S. military, and they are hell-bent on destruction,” the group told the Daily Caller News Foundation.

Former President William McKinley, a Union veteran, commissioned the memorial in 1898, according to the memorial’s webpage on the ANC site. Congress allowed for more than 400 Confederate veterans to be reinterred in graves forming concentric circles around the memorial in a bid to foster healing from the Civil War half a century prior.

Those who want it to remain say it does not honor the Confederacy but serves as a reminder of progress toward national reunification after the Union’s victory. However, proponents of dismantling it say the monument depicts an ahistorical version of the Confederacy and sanitized portrayal of slavery in the South, paying tribute to the false “lost cause” narrative.

A statue of a woman representing the “American South” holds a laurel wreath, plow stock and pruning hook encircled by 14 shields representing the 11 Confederate states and border states Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri. Of the 32 figures engraved into the pedestal, two appear as slaves and an inscription pays tribute to the idea of the Southern states’ war as a “lost cause.”

Sculptor Moses Ezekiel, a Jewish-American Confederate veteran and Virginia Military Institute cadet, is buried at the base, according to a the cemetery’s page for the structure.

“They have been weaponized against the dead, including a dead Jewish Veteran, mirroring the rise in antisemitism we are seeing around the nation and around the world,” Defend Arlington told the DCNF.

The Army and the ANC said the process of taking down the monument will start Dec. 18 and is expected to take four days, during which all but the concrete base of the statue will be removed to prevent disturbing the graves of Confederate fighters encircling the monument, according to court documents.

DOD argued that whether or not the monument should be removed is not a question under the suit Defend Arlington has brought to the courts in a statement opposing the stay, and that Defend Arlington’s stance that relocating the bronze elements of the monument would cause irreparable harm are “purely speculative.”

“To the extent Plaintiffs’ claims are even ripe or actionable, they are meritless, given, among other things, they ignore that the removal action is nondiscretionary; in other words, whether the Memorial should be removed is not a question this lawsuit can answer,” the response stated. Defending Arlington’s true argument is with Congress, DOD said.

The harm to the defenders is “irreparable and deep,” Defend Arlington said in a Dec. 5 rebuttal. “The act of removing and eliminating the century-old historic Memorial, even if it were restored at a later time, will have long-lasting consequences that cannot be compensated for by any type of remedial action.”

Defend Arlington accused the Army and ANC of deliberately skipping over required steps to hasten the monument’s removal. But DOD, in the Dec. 1 rebuttal, said that it wouldn’t matter — the Army is still legally required to take the action prescribed by the Naming Commission.

Congress’ 2021 defense bill, passed in the wake of George Floyd’s murder and ensuing race riots across the United States, mandated the Naming Commission to review all DOD assets — including military bases, unit insignia, ships and more — for Confederate references and develop ways to remove or rename the assets. The Army has renamed nine bases in the U.S. to comply with the commission’s report.

The Naming Commission, after examining the reconciliation monument, determined that “contextualization was not an appropriate option” and called for its removal, according to the final report. DOD was required to carry out the Naming Commissions’ recommendations.

The Naming Commission’s final report recommended removing the bronze upper and leaving the granite base intact to avoid disturbing graves. The Army published a draft finding that the monument removal would have no major environmental impact on the site on Nov. 17 and was supposed to have published the final finding by Dec. 8 after a brief public comment period.

The finding also disavowed the Army’s responsibility for any change to “cultural resources” removal of the monument would trigger. Any cultural impact is the fault of Congress for mandating the removal, the draft document stated.

“The Army has no discretion to keep the Memorial in ANC,” the document stated. And since non-discretionary actions are not required to undergo the NEPA process, “therefore do not affect the overall finding of no significant impact,” Karen Durham-Aguilera, executive director of Army National Military Cemeteries, wrote in the finding.

That determination invalidated the Army’s plan to submit an Environmental Impact Statement under the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), according to a federal notice posted on the ANC website — and the public comments received during an Aug. 23 scoping meeting where citizens with an interest in the monument’s fate largely advocated against its removal.

A review to ensure the removal takes place in accordance with the National Historic Preservation Act (NHPA) is expected to conclude on Dec. 14 after the Advisory Committee on Historic Preservation and Virginia State Historic Preservation Office requested an extension to review the Army’s evaluation of how the removal could adversely impact a historic property, according to a statement from Durham-Aguilera filed as part of the lawsuit.

Virginia’s Department of Historic Resources had warned that removing the monument would create adverse effects on the cemetery and associated sites in a Nov. 20 letter. ANC should “take necessary steps to minimize the potential effect to the Confederate Memorial, the possible memorabilia box, and surrounding area during disassembly, transport, and storage” and consider public comments, the letter stated.

Section 16 – Authorized by Congress in 1900, this section was called the Confederate Section. Confederate soldiers buried at ANC and elsewhere in the area were reburied here. The government furnished markers in this section are unique with a peaked top instead of a rounded top. pic.twitter.com/ai3C9igtuk
— Arlington National Cemetery (@ArlingtonNatl) May 23, 2020
The Army, which oversees ANC and the Confederate monument’s removal, declined to comment due to the ongoing litigation. The Department of Justice did not respond to the DCNF’s request for comment.
 

33dInd

Veteran Member
This very topic was a hot discussion of my sons of union veterans meeting
The national organization has weighed in on this
We propose it remains

The sons of confederate veterans are even more concerned as they fear it will be destroyed or melted down like general Lees statue was.

Additionally. There are approximately 200 confederate soliders buried there as an act of contrition
Part of the fear is the removal of the statue will result in damage or desecration of those same graves

I would further add. The designer and builder of this monument. A very renowned architect of the era,and a confederate solider by right.
Well he is also buried there at the base of the forty foot tall monument.

Did I mention he is Jewish. And the Jewish league has also weighed in
 
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jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
Defiling all the crosses on the graves will come next. Desecration of all that is Holy is inevitable until all knees finally bow down to acknowledge Jesus as Lord. The Apostasy has arrived america.
and with it all the curses that were warned of to a nation that once basked in the blessings at its birth.
 

Matt

Veteran Member
Good..... it's time for the mask to come all the way off.... maybe this will stop a few Southern whites from joining the FUSA military....

Visiting a Southern military cemetery is almost as bad as visiting a military cemetery out on the Indian reservation..... honorable men buried under the flag of those that hate them!

The American south is under a hostile occupation government.... same as Germany and the various Indian reservations..... it's what happens when you lose the war!
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
This very topic was a hot discussion of my sons of union veterans meeting
The national organization has weighed in on this
We propose it remains

The sons of confederate veterans are even more concerned as they fear it will be destroyed or melted down like general Lees statue was.

Additionally. There are approximately 200 confederate soliders buried there as an act of contrition
Part of the fear is the removal of the statue will result in damage or desecration of those same graves

I would further add. The designer and builder of this monument. A very renowned architect of the era,and a confederate solider by right.
Well he is also buried there at the base of the forty foot tall monument.

Did I mention he is Jewish. And the Jewish league has also weighed in
Just want to say thank you, and please pass on my thanks from Sons of Confederate Veterans and in particular this grandson to your Sons of Union Veterans.

Also wanted to make a note that Arlington was the plantation owned by Lee's FIL, and stolen by Yankees during the war and was eventually paid for by the Union because of a lawsuit. Lee's FIL owned slaves.

That war is over leave it all be.

But if the woke crowd really wanted to be on the right side of things they should relinquish claim to the plantation.

No disrespect to the Sons Of Union Veterans. It's just that the whole idea is so backwards in their thinking. Lots of our soldiers are buried there, and no one should disrespect any of them. North, South, One nation.
 

33dInd

Veteran Member
Just want to say thank you, and please pass on my thanks from Sons of Confederate Veterans and in particular this grandson to your Sons of Union Veterans.

Also wanted to make a note that Arlington was the plantation owned by Lee's FIL, and stolen by Yankees during the war and was eventually paid for by the Union because of a lawsuit. Lee's FIL owned slaves.

That war is over leave it all be.

But if the woke crowd really wanted to be on the right side of things they should relinquish claim to the plantation.

No disrespect to the Sons Of Union Veterans. It's just that the whole idea is so backwards in their thinking. Lots of our soldiers are buried there, and no one should disrespect any of them. North, South, One nation.
I understand and agree completely
Wife certainly has enough bonifides to be a daughter of the confederacy
For all of us true sons
It’s about protecting the monuments and other relics of that war.
No sense to refight it
At the fair lawn cemetery in okcity. There is a GAR monument
Not far from that is a small plot of southern soliders. My group maintains that section as well
 
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CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I understand and agree completely
Wife certainly has enough bonifides to be a daughter of the confederacy
For all of us true sons
It’s about protecting the monuments and other relics of that war.
No sense to retighten it
At the fair lawn cemetery in okcity. There is a GAR monument
Not far from that is a small plot of southern soliders. My group maintains that section as well
If you ever get a chance consider taking a weekend trip over to Vicksburg. Might be a little bit long for a day trip from Okcity.

There's a huge Union Cemetary there down by the river, beautiful place. It's a driving sight seeing trip around the battle field. takes about 2 hours. An awful lot of the headstones are just numbers because they don't know who they are. All the Union Memorials are on one side and all the Confederate are on the other. I think the Ill. Memorial is the biggest.

It costs about 25.00 for a car load, and then another like 20.00 for the cd which you plug into your car and it gives you the tour.

My grandfather was located up on the hill over looking the River above the cemetery. He made it home after the surrender, and maybe a year later joined Gen. Forrest's Calvary. Co. B 2nd MS Calvary. Under Armstrong, and Taylor.
 

33dInd

Veteran Member
Wife and I have been to Vicksburg
She has family buried there.
Southern side

When we built our Vietnam monument and memorial for our towns kids kia
My memory of Vicksburg was vivid.
All those names
All those stones. Lost to history

So on our names we developed a booklet
That detail their lives. There school accomplishments. Their lives. Their dreams

So this group would not become just names on stones list to the ages.
Michael Clinton hope
Robert kalsu
Jimmy sanders
Just to name three

During our research we discovered a ww2 Kia as well

And. Unfortunately we had two added from iraq

And I’m getting misty eyed just retelling this
We built a new fire station and named it for Michael clunton hope
When he was a boy. 1956. He used to show up at our one fire station to help was the truck
He was massively decorated combat vet to include two silver stars with oak leaf cluster. That’s Hugh
And two Vietnam cross of gallentry
And.
His only Purple Heart
I gotta stop
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Confederate-Memorial-1200.jpg
 

Barry Natchitoches

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The Army needs cannon fodder for their wars.

They complain they cannot meet their quotas right now.

The boys most likely to respond to the Army’s current call are the great great grandsons of the men the Arlington monument honors.

Why should these boys join up into the same Army that is treating their grandfathers with such great disrespect?
 

Sooth

Veteran Member
Quite amazing. The Congress did it in the 2021 defense bill. The Naming Commission did it because Congress told them to. The Army did it. No names. No party affiliation. Just - The Organization did it.
Easy to do things when you become part of The Something and maintain anonymity.
Wasn’t me! It was Congress. It was the Naming Commission. It was The Army.
We were only following orders.

Who started this? Who kept it going? WHO? Names. No one can or will answer that.
Well, Congress did it so it was the will of the people! And so forth. No one asks.

Because of Saint George Floyds self induced overdose death. A convenient rationale.
The dark figures behind the curtain continue to wreak havoc on our country.
 

Blinker

Senior Member
I expect Gettysburg Park will soon to be on the hit list.

I was on hand to see the 1994 dedication of what I believe was the last monument placed on the battle field, The Friend to Friend which features a union officer giving aid to the dying Confederate General Armistead.

My great grandfather once a union cavalry officer attended the 1913 Gettysburg battle reunion of 53,407 veterans including 8,750 Confederates.

"President Woodrow Wilson's July 4 reunion address summarized the spirit: "We have found one another again as brothers and comrades in arms, enemies no longer, generous friends rather, our battles long past, the quarrel forgotten—except that we shall not forget the splendid valor.""

Today's conflict is not about old battles but about the current battle to eliminate us.
 
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bw

Fringe Ranger
Will it be replaced with a rainbow-painted structure of sheet metal and rebar? And where will the monument go? The decent thing would be to donate to a nonprofit, to be placed somewhere people want it. So that means it will be melted down and made into nose rings or something.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Wife and I have been to Vicksburg
She has family buried there.
Southern side

When we built our Vietnam monument and memorial for our towns kids kia
My memory of Vicksburg was vivid.
All those names
All those stones. Lost to history

So on our names we developed a booklet
That detail their lives. There school accomplishments. Their lives. Their dreams

So this group would not become just names on stones list to the ages.
Michael Clinton hope
Robert kalsu
Jimmy sanders
Just to name three

During our research we discovered a ww2 Kia as well

And. Unfortunately we had two added from iraq

And I’m getting misty eyed just retelling this
We built a new fire station and named it for Michael clunton hope
When he was a boy. 1956. He used to show up at our one fire station to help was the truck
He was massively decorated combat vet to include two silver stars with oak leaf cluster. That’s Hugh
And two Vietnam cross of gallentry
And.
His only Purple Heart
I gotta stop
Yeah thanks for sharing.

Doing some amateur genealogy research I've found cousins on the MIA wall in the Philippians. Both were left behind when the Air Force left Manilla. One was a radio guy the other a mechanic. From Stories I've read and seen, they picked up a rifle and became infantry. The date of their MIA report was a couple of days after the fall, and a couple of days after the Death March. So I'm guessing they were in it, or were killed after the fall.

Two on the Wall in DC, neither killed in action, one SSG drowned, and the other from Dengi fever.

One a close cousin and 1st Lt, was killed in France WWII. He got hit with an 88mm round and died from his wounds. He's in a book about the unit the 135th Armored Engineer Batt.

The one that breaks my heart the most is a near cousin, that joined the 2nd Ms Cav State Troops at 16, and died for unknow reasons 6 days after his 18th birthday. He's buried down the road with his mom and dad. And last reported to be in Tupelo, escorting prisoners. Am thinking he contracted some disease and he died at home from it. But that's a guess.

Learning about their stories has been a real blessing to me. I've told them here before, but can't help but repeat them so they aren't forgotten.

And got to say, for a Yankee you're all right, and may even have some brains, marrying a southern girl. LOL

Btw, what unit were her relatives in? If you don't mind sharing. If you don't want to do that in public I understand.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I tell myself, "You did not just burst into tears because of this memorial; you burst into tears because of what is happening to the Country of Your Birth."

I then thought: "By taking these actions, they are undoing the very act of reconciliation that our ancestors worked so hard to establish after the war. "

Historically, they are sowing the seeds of the next one...


It won't be Gettysburg. They close. First, it will be the Vicksburg Memorial Park. Every State that participated in the war was asked to have a statue made in the name of reconciliation so that the war would not be forgotten. There's a picture of me with my cousins on a canon at age five. My Mother explained to me that after a terrible war, both sides wanted to honor their dead. and back when it was free, I spent happy hours as a teenager making music in a copy of a Greek Temple. I was a lot older when I truly understood why the park and that double cemetery were there, but now I do. Twenty-five dollars is a lot of money for many people; it is almost like they don't want people to visit anymore....
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Twenty-five dollars is a lot of money for many people; it is almost like they don't want people to visit anymore....
That's 25.00 per car load of people. not per person. And since it is a "national park" if you have the national park pass, you pay zero. Just have to show the pass. So that shows it's not an attempt to restrict visitors to Vicksburg, they are charging to get into any National Park.

The pass is a one time fee, or maybe an annual fee of a certain amount, that is good anywhere in the US, at any National Park.

We were in my son's car who had the pass, and it was good for the whole car load of 5. He's used that thing all over the US.

Complaints have been posted about the price of getting into Yellowstone. No CW affiliation.

Don't know what it is like in Ireland. But 25.00 here will buy a good hamburger at the Rattlesnake Saloon. Or a half a box of .22LR. So not much compared to going to Disneyland.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
That's 25.00 per car load of people. not per person. And since it is a "national park" if you have the national park pass, you pay zero. Just have to show the pass. So that shows it's not an attempt to restrict visitors to Vicksburg, they are charging to get into any National Park.

The pass is a one time fee, or maybe an annual fee of a certain amount, that is good anywhere in the US, at any National Park.

We were in my son's car who had the pass, and it was good for the whole car load of 5. He's used that thing all over the US.

Complaints have been posted about the price of getting into Yellowstone. No CW affiliation.

Don't know what it is like in Ireland. But 25.00 here will buy a good hamburger at the Rattlesnake Saloon. Or a half a box of .22LR. So not much compared to going to Disneyland.
OK, but when I was growing up, the park was FREE. I had many happy afternoons, first as a small child and later as a young student (16 to 18 or so), having picnics, exploring the part (there's a meadow with a waterfall!), performing music in that temple (I wish I had recordings, the harmonies were terrific), and studying and learning about the monuments. As a child, my family would drive through there during the grueling hot summers, visiting from Califonia. We should stop the car, and the adults would explain each monument, where it came from, and "Oh, look, another cannon to sit on."

That is how you teach history deeply; that is why the Memorial Park was put there. It wasn't put there to make money for the National Park system, and it didn't charge for decades. Then suddenly, it did, and I have to wonder why. Local people can buy a national park pass, but it isn't the same, and neither is the lesson.

It was supposed to be a kind of sacred space for healing, both a cemetery and a park. A place to walk with the kids and say "We had a war, but there were brave men and women on both sides, who are buried here."
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
OK, but when I was growing up, the park was FREE. I had many happy afternoons, first as a small child and later as a young student (16 to 18 or so), having picnics, exploring the part (there's a meadow with a waterfall!), performing music in that temple (I wish I had recordings, the harmonies were terrific), and studying and learning about the monuments. As a child, my family would drive through there during the grueling hot summers, visiting from Califonia. We should stop the car, and the adults would explain each monument, where it came from, and "Oh, look, another cannon to sit on."

That is how you teach history deeply; that is why the Memorial Park was put there. It wasn't put there to make money for the National Park system, and it didn't charge for decades. Then suddenly, it did, and I have to wonder why. Local people can buy a national park pass, but it isn't the same, and neither is the lesson.

It was supposed to be a kind of sacred space for healing, both a cemetery and a park. A place to walk with the kids and say "We had a war, but there were brave men and women on both sides, who are buried here."
Just for reference purposes:

HR bill 3846 was passed in1963 and signed by President Johnson, imposing fees on National Parks. Not all parks do, only some 100+ out of 400.

The Senate passed the bill on August 12, with only Senator Allen J. Ellender of Louisiana voting against it. [17] The House and Senate subsequently agreed to a conference report reconciling their differences, and President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the final version on September

No. 17 footnote:

17 Several years before, Senator Ellender had visited Vicksburg Nation al Military Park, where a 25 cent admission fee was charged at the visitor center. He loudly proclaimed the fee a "gyp" and said it should be discontinued. It was. (Interview with Edwin C. Bearss, Sept. 2, 1982.)

The fees seem to be an off again, on again, thing, even in recent years.

And it should also be noted that at special times of the year even in fee charging years, they have several weeks of Fee Free time.

With the present fee of 30.00 per car load.
 

33dInd

Veteran Member
Yeah thanks for sharing.

Doing some amateur genealogy research I've found cousins on the MIA wall in the Philippians. Both were left behind when the Air Force left Manilla. One was a radio guy the other a mechanic. From Stories I've read and seen, they picked up a rifle and became infantry. The date of their MIA report was a couple of days after the fall, and a couple of days after the Death March. So I'm guessing they were in it, or were killed after the fall.

Two on the Wall in DC, neither killed in action, one SSG drowned, and the other from Dengi fever.

One a close cousin and 1st Lt, was killed in France WWII. He got hit with an 88mm round and died from his wounds. He's in a book about the unit the 135th Armored Engineer Batt.

The one that breaks my heart the most is a near cousin, that joined the 2nd Ms Cav State Troops at 16, and died for unknow reasons 6 days after his 18th birthday. He's buried down the road with his mom and dad. And last reported to be in Tupelo, escorting prisoners. Am thinking he contracted some disease and he died at home from it. But that's a guess.

Learning about their stories has been a real blessing to me. I've told them here before, but can't help but repeat them so they aren't forgotten.

And got to say, for a Yankee you're all right, and may even have some brains, marrying a southern girl. LOL

Btw, what unit were her relatives in? If you don't mind sharing. If you don't want to do that in public I understand.
Welll
Technically I’m a Yankee. All my kin on the dads side are yanks. I was born in iowa but only because mom and dad went to visit and they got snowed in
On my mom’s side Her people were all from a Louisiana. And all southern even before the war
Wife. Her people were from Alabama so all fought southern. I don’t remember the specific units.
But
On wife’s father’s side. All fought northern
That is well documented
My handle here is 33dIND
Company A 33 Indiana. Coburn brigades
Now what’s that old sayin
There’s three types of yankees
Yankees. Those that stay north
Damn Yankees. Those that come to visit
But go back home
GD Yankees. Those that come to visit. Meet a good southern girl. Marry and stay
So
I’m not sure where I’m at in that mix
I would mention that one of my relatives on the southern side
1st cousin. Not civil war but WW2. I actually met him at family reunion in 1960 cochatea louisina
Rigdon. Radcliffs . Machellas and Murphys
My great grandmother Sara Jane Murphy Rigdon was an aunt to Audie Murphy

Heck my 7th great grand father was at the battle of fort William Henry from the French and Indian wars If you ever saw the movie last of the Mohicans. He was there
Wife had a great aunt killed at the massacre of fort Mims 1813. Alabama
 
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CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Welll
Technically I’m a Yankee. All my kin on the dads side are yanks. I was born in iowa but only because mom and dad went to visit and they got snowed in
On my mom’s side Her people were all from a Louisiana. And all southern even before the war
Wife. Her people were from Alabama so all fought southern. I don’t remember the specific units.
But
On wife’s father’s side. All fought northern
That is well documented
My handle here is 33dIND
Company A 33 Indiana. Coburn brigades
Now what’s that old sayin
There’s three types of yankees
Yankees. Those that stay north
Damn Yankees. Those that come to visit
But go back home
GD Yankees. Those that come to visit. Meet a good southern girl. Marry and stay
So
I’m not sure where I’m at in that mix
I would mention that one of my relatives on the southern side
1st cousin. Not civil war but WW2. I actually met him at family reunion in 1960 cochatea louisina
Rigdon. Radcliffs . Machellas and Murphys
My great grandmother Sara Jane Murphy Rigdon was an aunt to Audie Murphy

Heck my 7th great grand father was at the battle of fort William Henry from the French and Indian wars If you ever saw the movie last of the Mohicans. He was there
Wife had a great aunt killed at the massacre of fort Mims 1813. Alabama
Well I won't hold being a Yankee against you, It wasn't your fault. LOL All is forgiven. LOL

What a rich history and know about Fort Henry very well. Even before you mentioned the movie. And Ft Mims seems familiar too. Wasn't it one of the reasons Jackson came in and killed a bunch of Indians, or claimed their land or something like that?

I've got a cousin in Dallas who really got me hooked on genealogy, and he came across a distant cousin, last year, and sent me a picture of his headstone. I researched him and got excited. Served in the 2nd TN Cav. Kin in the Calvary awesome. Looked a little more and things weren't adding up, and finally found out, there were 2 - 2nd TN Cav. One for the North and one for the South. He served in the Union 2nd TN Cav. Tn was totally screwed up during the CW, and even after. Anyway he lived through the war and moved to Oregon, and either his son or grandson went to West Point.

At first I was going to disown him but the West Pointer got him back in good. LOL

And of Note Vicksburg is generally associated with MS, but some of the heaviest fighting was done by the 3rd LA Infantry (?) at the redoubt.

A book you might consider picking up is "Vicksburg" by Mitchem Jr. told from a southern perspective. And the horrors endured during the siege. Reading the book in conjunction with a visit to the site is an eye opener.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Well I won't hold being a Yankee against you, It wasn't your fault. LOL All is forgiven. LOL

What a rich history and know about Fort Henry very well. Even before you mentioned the movie. And Ft Mims seems familiar too. Wasn't it one of the reasons Jackson came in and killed a bunch of Indians, or claimed their land or something like that?

I've got a cousin in Dallas who really got me hooked on genealogy, and he came across a distant cousin, last year, and sent me a picture of his headstone. I researched him and got excited. Served in the 2nd TN Cav. Kin in the Calvary awesome. Looked a little more and things weren't adding up, and finally found out, there were 2 - 2nd TN Cav. One for the North and one for the South. He served in the Union 2nd TN Cav. Tn was totally screwed up during the CW, and even after. Anyway he lived through the war and moved to Oregon, and either his son or grandson went to West Point.

At first I was going to disown him but the West Pointer got him back in good. LOL

And of Note Vicksburg is generally associated with MS, but some of the heaviest fighting was done by the 3rd LA Infantry (?) at the redoubt.

A book you might consider picking up is "Vicksburg" by Mitchem Jr. told from a southern perspective. And the horrors endured during the siege. Reading the book in conjunction with a visit to the site is an eye opener.
The park had an excellent museum, with most of a room about the siege of Vicksburg, many of its personal memories, and artifacts from the ladies who had lived through it. The families donated them. These were women from all walks of life, suddenly forced to live and try to keep their families alive, while living in caves.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
What these History changing MORONS don't realize is that if you don't learn from History....both the good and the bad, we are dooming ourselves to REPEAT IT!! Again -and- AGAIN -and- AGAIN!! FRIGGEN IDIOTS!!
 

33dInd

Veteran Member
Well I won't hold being a Yankee against you, It wasn't your fault. LOL All is forgiven. LOL

What a rich history and know about Fort Henry very well. Even before you mentioned the movie. And Ft Mims seems familiar too. Wasn't it one of the reasons Jackson came in and killed a bunch of Indians, or claimed their land or something like that?

I've got a cousin in Dallas who really got me hooked on genealogy, and he came across a distant cousin, last year, and sent me a picture of his headstone. I researched him and got excited. Served in the 2nd TN Cav. Kin in the Calvary awesome. Looked a little more and things weren't adding up, and finally found out, there were 2 - 2nd TN Cav. One for the North and one for the South. He served in the Union 2nd TN Cav. Tn was totally screwed up during the CW, and even after. Anyway he lived through the war and moved to Oregon, and either his son or grandson went to West Point.

At first I was going to disown him but the West Pointer got him back in good. LOL

And of Note Vicksburg is generally associated with MS, but some of the heaviest fighting was done by the 3rd LA Infantry (?) at the redoubt.

A book you might consider picking up is "Vicksburg" by Mitchem Jr. told from a southern perspective. And the horrors endured during the siege. Reading the book in conjunction with a visit to the site is an eye opener.
A little known historical fact
Every southern state had units that fought for the north
Fort mims ws part of the red legs wars
The native joined forces with the British
Fort mims was a very well organized effort to pull American militia away so the fort could be destroyed
The natives were told by their chiefs to not kill the women and children
But the braves in a blood lust disobeyed that order
It does happen in the fog of war
Remember me Lia in Vietnam
And the German massacre of surrendered Americans at the bulge
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Defenders Make Last-Ditch Effort To Halt Pentagon From Tearing Down Arlington Cemetery Reconciliation Monument

Advocates are pursuing a last-ditch attempt to save the Confederate Memorial at the Arlington National Cemetery from the Army’s all but inevitable push to tear down most elements of the statue perceived to honor the Confederacy.

Since a congressional commission recommended dismantling the monument in September 2022, giving a deadline of January 1, 2024, the Army and Arlington National Cemetery (ANC) have completed nearly every step in the process of tearing it down. Defend Arlington, which has fought to preserve the monument, filed a lawsuit in November saying that the Department of Defense (DOD) is bulldozing past requirements and ignoring public opinion, court documents show.

Defend Arlington filed a request for an injunction in a District of Columbia court on Nov. 21. The court has not granted the request as the Army’s projected date to take down the monument looms

“The Memorial represents a symbol of reconciliation aimed at healing a country divided during a brutal sectional war and reconstruction,” Defend Arlington wrote.

“We do not believe the Army will reverse the decision, unless the Court or Congress make them. Sadly, the ‘march through the institutions’ has infected the U.S. military, and they are hell-bent on destruction,” the group told the Daily Caller News Foundation.

Former President William McKinley, a Union veteran, commissioned the memorial in 1898, according to the memorial’s webpage on the ANC site. Congress allowed for more than 400 Confederate veterans to be reinterred in graves forming concentric circles around the memorial in a bid to foster healing from the Civil War half a century prior.

Those who want it to remain say it does not honor the Confederacy but serves as a reminder of progress toward national reunification after the Union’s victory. However, proponents of dismantling it say the monument depicts an ahistorical version of the Confederacy and sanitized portrayal of slavery in the South, paying tribute to the false “lost cause” narrative.

A statue of a woman representing the “American South” holds a laurel wreath, plow stock and pruning hook encircled by 14 shields representing the 11 Confederate states and border states Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri. Of the 32 figures engraved into the pedestal, two appear as slaves and an inscription pays tribute to the idea of the Southern states’ war as a “lost cause.”

Sculptor Moses Ezekiel, a Jewish-American Confederate veteran and Virginia Military Institute cadet, is buried at the base, according to a the cemetery’s page for the structure.

“They have been weaponized against the dead, including a dead Jewish Veteran, mirroring the rise in antisemitism we are seeing around the nation and around the world,” Defend Arlington told the DCNF.

The Army and the ANC said the process of taking down the monument will start Dec. 18 and is expected to take four days, during which all but the concrete base of the statue will be removed to prevent disturbing the graves of Confederate fighters encircling the monument, according to court documents.

DOD argued that whether or not the monument should be removed is not a question under the suit Defend Arlington has brought to the courts in a statement opposing the stay, and that Defend Arlington’s stance that relocating the bronze elements of the monument would cause irreparable harm are “purely speculative.”

“To the extent Plaintiffs’ claims are even ripe or actionable, they are meritless, given, among other things, they ignore that the removal action is nondiscretionary; in other words, whether the Memorial should be removed is not a question this lawsuit can answer,” the response stated. Defending Arlington’s true argument is with Congress, DOD said.

The harm to the defenders is “irreparable and deep,” Defend Arlington said in a Dec. 5 rebuttal. “The act of removing and eliminating the century-old historic Memorial, even if it were restored at a later time, will have long-lasting consequences that cannot be compensated for by any type of remedial action.”

Defend Arlington accused the Army and ANC of deliberately skipping over required steps to hasten the monument’s removal. But DOD, in the Dec. 1 rebuttal, said that it wouldn’t matter — the Army is still legally required to take the action prescribed by the Naming Commission.

Congress’ 2021 defense bill, passed in the wake of George Floyd’s murder and ensuing race riots across the United States, mandated the Naming Commission to review all DOD assets — including military bases, unit insignia, ships and more — for Confederate references and develop ways to remove or rename the assets. The Army has renamed nine bases in the U.S. to comply with the commission’s report.

The Naming Commission, after examining the reconciliation monument, determined that “contextualization was not an appropriate option” and called for its removal, according to the final report. DOD was required to carry out the Naming Commissions’ recommendations.

The Naming Commission’s final report recommended removing the bronze upper and leaving the granite base intact to avoid disturbing graves. The Army published a draft finding that the monument removal would have no major environmental impact on the site on Nov. 17 and was supposed to have published the final finding by Dec. 8 after a brief public comment period.

The finding also disavowed the Army’s responsibility for any change to “cultural resources” removal of the monument would trigger. Any cultural impact is the fault of Congress for mandating the removal, the draft document stated.

“The Army has no discretion to keep the Memorial in ANC,” the document stated. And since non-discretionary actions are not required to undergo the NEPA process, “therefore do not affect the overall finding of no significant impact,” Karen Durham-Aguilera, executive director of Army National Military Cemeteries, wrote in the finding.

That determination invalidated the Army’s plan to submit an Environmental Impact Statement under the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), according to a federal notice posted on the ANC website — and the public comments received during an Aug. 23 scoping meeting where citizens with an interest in the monument’s fate largely advocated against its removal.

A review to ensure the removal takes place in accordance with the National Historic Preservation Act (NHPA) is expected to conclude on Dec. 14 after the Advisory Committee on Historic Preservation and Virginia State Historic Preservation Office requested an extension to review the Army’s evaluation of how the removal could adversely impact a historic property, according to a statement from Durham-Aguilera filed as part of the lawsuit.

Virginia’s Department of Historic Resources had warned that removing the monument would create adverse effects on the cemetery and associated sites in a Nov. 20 letter. ANC should “take necessary steps to minimize the potential effect to the Confederate Memorial, the possible memorabilia box, and surrounding area during disassembly, transport, and storage” and consider public comments, the letter stated.


The Army, which oversees ANC and the Confederate monument’s removal, declined to comment due to the ongoing litigation. The Department of Justice did not respond to the DCNF’s request for comment.
UPDATE: From an email I received this AM.

In the District of Columbia, we have been dealt a difficult blow as the case brought by the Sons of Confederate Veterans and Defend Arlington against the Department of Defense and others has now been dismissed. However, we will fight and push on for review to the Court of Appeals, and to the Supreme Court of the United States. We will not leave a stone unturned!
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
However, we will fight and push on for review to the Court of Appeals, and to the Supreme Court of the United States. We will not leave a stone unturned!
Um. Not exactly the wording I would have chosen.

So next they go after the Tomb of the Unknowns? The unknown COULD have been White, probably was. And that could is reason enough for the State to hate him instead of celebrating his anonymity.

Dobbin
 
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