…… Broccoli, Cauliflower, cabbage

[John Deere Girl]

I've been gardening for years, but I've never been able to raise broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, or brussel sprouts as successfully as I'd like.. I do organic,, i companion plant,, I mulch with straw, I fertilize with compost. I plan to have a fall garden, and I'd welcome any tips. I'm zone 6.

 

[psychgirl]

I wish I could help!
Mom grew those as big as pumpkins when I was very little. There’s a photo of me sitting with a cauliflower in my lap.
I hope someone here can help!

 

[summerthyme]

I've been gardening for years, but I've never been able to raise broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, or brussel sprouts as successfully as I'd like.. I do organic,, i companion plant,, I mulch with straw, I fertilize with compost. I plan to have a fall garden, and I'd welcome any tips. I'm zone 6.

First, what do your plants do when you try to grow them?

Summerthyme

 

[packyderms_wife]

First, what do your plants do when you try to grow them?

Summerthyme

Mine shrivel up and die, even with consistent watering, etc. I've only had one good year with cabbages and mustard greens, everything else has been a huge failure. Last year slugs got all of my green bean plants, complete with I'll pick those in the morning beans on the plants, every single one of them overnight! I literally looked at them at 9pm and by 8am they were all gone! Lots of slug poop left behind though.

 

[Border Collie Dad]

I'm right there with you John Deere Girl.
I transplanted broccoli, cabbage and cauliflower to the garden around 4/1
In the past, I've tried self blanched and needs blanched cauliflower with poor success.
So far this year I have one little baseball sized cauliflower.
The rest shows no sign of bearing.
I had to buy some broccoli seedlings from the greenhouse since few of mine survived transplanting.
Few heads of cabbage look like they may produce.

I planted 16-24 of each of these

 

[John Deere Girl]

First, what do your plants do when you try to grow them?

Summerthyme

Some don't get very big and never produce. Or the heads get medium sized. And those stupid white moths don't help. I plant dill, oregano, and marigolds with them. I really want to grow these successfully!

 

[John Deere Girl]

I'm right there with you John Deere Girl.
I transplanted broccoli, cabbage and cauliflower to the garden around 4/1
In the past, I've tried self blanched and needs blanched cauliflower with poor success.
So far this year I have one little baseball sized cauliflower.
The rest shows no sign of bearing.
I had to buy some broccoli seedlings from the greenhouse since few of mine survived transplanting.
Few heads of cabbage look like they may produce.

I planted 16-24 of each of these

I'm sorry, it's very frustrating!

 

[summerthyme]

Sudden death is often clubroot... it's a virus in the soil. Small heads are usually stress- too hot, or too much (or too little!) water.

The cabbage butterflies are the easy part... just spray plants with Bt (organic, it only kills caterpillars) once a week or so.

Cole crops prefer cool weather, and actually are sweeter in the fall.

Choose a good hybrid variety (cheap plants or seeds are usually open pollinated... if you've got perfect conditions, those varieties will do OK, but this is one category where hybrids make a huge difference.

Summerthyme

 

[packyderms_wife]

Choose a good hybrid variety (cheap plants or seeds are usually open pollinated... if you've got perfect conditions, those varieties will do OK, but this is one category where hybrids make a huge difference.

Summerthyme

I bought plants from the local green house, I'm pretty sure they were hybrids, but I could be wrong.

 

[John Deere Girl]

Sudden death is often clubroot... it's a virus in the soil. Small heads are usually stress- too hot, or too much (or too little!) water.

The cabbage butterflies are the easy part... just spray plants with Bt (organic, it only kills caterpillars) once a week or so.

Cole crops prefer cool weather, and actually are sweeter in the fall.

Choose a good hybrid variety (cheap plants or seeds are usually open pollinated... if you've got perfect conditions, those varieties will do OK, but this is one category where hybrids make a huge difference.

Summerthyme

What kinds do you recommend for broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, and brussel sprouts? And when would you recommend I start seeds for our fall garden. We are zone 6.

 

[summerthyme]

What kinds do you recommend for broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, and brussel sprouts? And when would you recommend I start seeds for our fall garden. We are zone 6.

Brussels Sprouts are a very long season crop... it's unlikely you can get enough growth to produce sprouts trying for a fall crop... figure a minimum of 100 days from transplanting... and start seeds 6 weeks before that.

But fairly early varieties of the rest could be started now, then transplanted (with some sort of mulch to help shade the soil from the late summer sun) in mid July.

I found a variety of broccoli called Coronado Crown that is incredible... I've gotten 16" diameter heads from it! I think it was from Park Seeds, but not sure.

Johnny's Seeds has a variety of cauliflower called Early Snow. It's VERY early... 45 days from transplanting in Spring. Fall planting always takes longer, as day length shortens, so keep that in mind.

Cabbage is personal choice, but again, you need to find a shorter season variety. We grow early types (red and green) for fresh summer eating, and then long season keepers for putting in the root cellar.

I bought plants from the local green house, I'm pretty sure they were hybrids, but I could be wrong.

Most greenhouses around here simply use the cheapest seed, which means open pollinated varieties, or, in the case of tomatoes, older hybrids with "name recognition". Again, for folks without growing issues, they provide acceptable production. But if you are having problems, hybrid vigor really can make a difference. Plus, you can find hybrids with disease resistance... Google cabbage diseases and see if clubroot (or maybe cabbage yellows, although it doesn't really sound like it) sounds like your problem. Then consider finding seed for next year for resistant varieties.

Even if you aren't set up to start seeds indoors, direct seeding your Cole crops will give you a better chance of a crop than transplanting varieties which succumb to disease mid-season.

Summerthyme

 

[John Deere Girl]

Brussels Sprouts are a very long season crop... it's unlikely you can get enough growth to produce sprouts trying for a fall crop... figure a minimum of 100 days from transplanting... and start seeds 6 weeks before that.

But fairly early varieties of the rest could be started now, then transplanted (with some sort of mulch to help shade the soil from the late summer sun) in mid July.

I found a variety of broccoli called Coronado Crown that is incredible... I've gotten 16" diameter heads from it! I think it was from Park Seeds, but not sure.

Johnny's Seeds has a variety of cauliflower called Early Snow. It's VERY early... 45 days from transplanting in Spring. Fall planting always takes longer, as day length shortens, so keep that in mind.

Cabbage is personal choice, but again, you need to find a shorter season variety. We grow early types (red and green) for fresh summer eating, and then long season keepers for putting in the root cellar.



Most greenhouses around here simply use the cheapest seed, which means open pollinated varieties, or, in the case of tomatoes, older hybrids with "name recognition". Again, for folks without growing issues, they provide acceptable production. But if you are having problems, hybrid vigor really can make a difference. Plus, you can find hybrids with disease resistance... Google cabbage diseases and see if clubroot (or maybe cabbage yellows, although it doesn't really sound like it) sounds like your problem. Then consider finding seed for next year for resistant varieties.

Even if you aren't set up to start seeds indoors, direct seeding your Cole crops will give you a better chance of a crop than transplanting varieties which succumb to disease mid-season.

Summerthyme

Thank you! I have brussel sprouts that are doing OK, so maybe I can get a good crop from those. I will try those other types you suggested if I can find them. I may try direct sow as well as seedlings.

 

[summerthyme]

Thank you! I have brussel sprouts that are doing OK, so maybe I can get a good crop from those. I will try those other types you suggested if I can find them. I may try direct sow as well as seedlings.

When you're about 30 days from an expected *hard freeze* (not just your first light frosts) use a sharp knife 9r pruners and top your Brussels Sprouts plants. Remove the "growing point"... the cluster of leaves at the top and an inch or two of stem. This stops them from growing taller, and signals them it's time to hurry and mature the sprouts... in 3-4 weeks, you'll have full stems of good sized sprouts.

Summerthyme

 

[ioujc]

Summerthyme, you AMAZE me!!!

You are so knowledgeable in SO many areas!!

You know all about most animals and birthing and diseases, and now you reveal the same DEPTH of knowledge about plants!!

HOW have you retained such a wealth of knowledge and understanding??
And actually, you seem to also know how to talk to people, help them and never make they feel ignorant!!

Like I said.......you are AMAZING!!

 

[WanderLore]

I'm with ST. I prefer direct seeding. Rotate stuff. Mulch. Drainage. Companion planting.
I'll start some seeds inside cause I'm anxious to get out there. But I really think my direct seeds seem to do better.

 

[Raggedyman]

JDG
I'm in 6B . . . below is my "planting schedule". I've always started these indoors under grow lights and hot mats then moved to a cold frame asap after the starts are mature enough to do so. we never put anything "soft" (tomatoes peppers etc) in the ground before mid may with the exception of kale chard white potatoes (first thing in the ground - usually by end of march and certainly by the first - second week of april). typically my tomato starts will be ~16" when they are set out and I plant them very deep.

as for broccoli - suggest the PACKMAN variety - its a hybrid - we've had huge heads and it just keeps on giving. we plant savoy cabbage and it also does very well. I have NOT had much success with organic insect control despite companion plantings - dill marigolds etc. I use BAYER on anything that's on the bug menu and ASANA which is an insect neurotoxin and spreads "instant death from above" on potato bugs especially. you can literally watch the little bastaaads fall off the leaf in the row you just left.

I use grass clippings for mulch and I mulch VERY HEAVILY

PLANTING SCHEDULE

MARCH​

start ALL NLT first week of MARCH:
sweet pot slips

start seeds in flats
cherokee tomato – 9
cherry tomato – 9
amish paste tomato– 24
san marzano tomato – 12
broccoli – 12
swiss chard - 12

start seeds in flats NLT third week of MARCH
candy roaster – 9
hot bannana pepper – 12
jalepeno pepper - 9
sweet pepper - 12
cucumber – 12

APRIL​

plant NLT third week of APRIL:
broccoli
swiss chard

plant white potatoes NLT second week of APRIL

start seeds in flats
butternut squash -18
brussel sprouts - 12

MAY​

plant NLT mid May:

all remaining but for sweet pots and butternutt squash

plant sweet pots last week of May

JULY​

plant NLT mid July
butternutt squash

start seeds in flats NLT third week of July
savoy cabbage – 24
broccoli – 8
collards – 18
kale – 18

AUGUST​

plant NLT mid August
savoy cabbage
broccoli
collards
kale

 

[John Deere Girl]

JDG
I'm in 6B . . . below is my "planting schedule". I've always started these indoors under grow lights and moved to a cold frame asap after the starts are mature enough to do so. we never put anything "soft" (tomatoes peppers etc) in the ground before mid may with the exception of kale chard white potatoes (first thing in the ground - usually by end of march and certainly by the first - second week of april). typically my tomato starts will be ~16" when they are set out and I plant them very deep.

as for broccoli - suggest the PACKMAN variety - its a hybrid - we've had huge heads and it just keeps on giving. we plant savoy cabbage and it also does very well. I have NOT had much success with organic insect control despite companion plantings - dill marigolds etc. I use BAYER on anything that's on the bug menu and ASANA which is an insect neurotoxin and spreads "instant death from above" on potato bugs especially. you can literally watch the little bastaaads fall off the leaf in the row you just left.

I use grass clippings for mulch and I mulch VERY HEAVILY

PLANTING SCHEDULE

MARCH​

start ALL NLT first week of MARCH:
sweet pot slips

start seeds in flats
cherokee tomato – 9
cherry tomato – 9
amish paste tomato– 24
san marzano tomato – 12
broccoli – 12
swiss chard - 12

start seeds in flats NLT third week of MARCH
candy roaster – 9
hot bannana pepper – 12
jalepeno pepper - 9
sweet pepper - 12
cucumber – 12

APRIL​

plant NLT third week of APRIL:
broccoli
swiss chard

plant white potatoes NLT second week of APRIL

start seeds in flats
butternut squash -18
brussel sprouts - 12

MAY​

plant NLT mid May:

all remaining but for sweet pots and butternutt squash

plant sweet pots last week of May

JULY​

plant NLT mid July
butternutt squash

start seeds in flats NLT third week of July
savoy cabbage – 24
broccoli – 8
collards – 18
kale – 18

AUGUST​

plant NLT mid August
savoy cabbage
broccoli
collards
kale

Thank you! I greatly appreciate that!

 

[Raggedyman]

Thank you! I greatly appreciate that!

I neglected to mention - R O T A T E - everything - potatoes in particular.

 

[Kathy in FL]

All of those are cool weather crops. You can grow Brussels sprouts in northern florida (not panhandle) but I haven’t really heard of success in central and south Florida except by very experienced gardeners that use hoops rows to keep the bugs off.

Cabbage is easy with cover cloth or a good, consistent, regular spray so they aren’t a field crop but a row crop in private gardens.

If you have trouble with broccoli, try broccoli rabe. Some people call it rapini. It will work in a Mediterranean type growing season.

When I grow those items I doing it late fall into winter or winter into spring in both northern and central florida. Northern Florida needs more protection that central however.

It depends on the year. Our weather can be really strange for some people. In central florida we have a nearly 365 day growing season even without protection. Temperature fluctuations make planting times estimates at best. Northern Florida isn’t quite a 365 day growing season unless you are using protection like hoop houses and with those you need to know when to remove them or you’ll cook your crops.

Check with your local 4H club or similar. They’ll probably have access to a planting calendar for the local/micro climate.

 

[Barry Natchitoches]

I'm with ST. I prefer direct seeding. Rotate stuff. Mulch. Drainage. Companion planting.
I'll start some seeds inside cause I'm anxious to get out there. But I really think my direct seeds seem to do better.

With beans, I do direct seeding.

With everything else, I use the Park Seed company’s seed starting system. It is a bit pricey on one end - having to buy the initial trays and strrofoam holders, which is a one time purchase, and then the bags of the seed planting medium which is a recurring expense.

However, seeds are getting more and more expensive, and using the Park Seed system, I only have to plant one seed in each of the holes where seeds are to be planted - and unless there are serious germination problems with the seed itself - I get near 100% success with my seed starts. So what I spend on consumable supplies for my Park Seed starter system on the front end is saved in money not spent on seeds.

As good seeds get harder and harder to find - and more expensive to boot - the Park Seed company’s seed starter system will become more and more essential, IMHO.

Edited to add: This system is designed for home gardeners. Large scale or commercial gardeners might still find the costs prohibited, even with the higher germination rates when using this seed starting system.

 

[WanderLore]

Barry I'm working on saving seeds where I can too.

 

[John Deere Girl]

I wanted to update everyone who responded to help me. Our fall garden is growing beautifully because of lots of prayer and all your advice! My DH was so impressed and excited when I showed him. Thank you all so much!

 

[pauldingbabe]

Sudden death is often clubroot... it's a virus in the soil. Small heads are usually stress- too hot, or too much (or too little!) water.

The cabbage butterflies are the easy part... just spray plants with Bt (organic, it only kills caterpillars) once a week or so.

Cole crops prefer cool weather, and actually are sweeter in the fall.

Choose a good hybrid variety (cheap plants or seeds are usually open pollinated... if you've got perfect conditions, those varieties will do OK, but this is one category where hybrids make a huge difference.

Summerthyme

This....

I'm in GA, zone 8-8b. My frosts vary widely and summer can return at anytime.

What I do is start mine inside and let them get really strong. I try to time this with our warm fall then I have until about Christmas.

If you have freezes or cold temps cover them with plastic or a sheet. They will keep on going if you protect them. You can also high mulch the plants so the roots are more insulated.

Remember these crops are mostly biannual. so if you want more seeds make sure you are distancing like veggies. Look at the Latin names. If the second word (lower case) is the same/similar, don't plant together!

Also try to find local heritage open pollinated seed. This is best because the seeds have been grown in your zone and thats what the plants expect.

More cold hearty varieties for longer cold and warm for short.

I use long and short. Short for our Spring because of bolting when we warm up. Longer for fall through winter plantings.

 

[John Deere Girl]

I wanted to thank you all for the tips and advice! I have a big harvest this summer!

 

[philkar]

So glad your garden is doing well! We too are having a bountiful year despite the weird weather we are having here in the Deep South. Last year’s garden was less than usual! Getting Fall crops started in greenhouse right now.