One would have to be at least 90 to have a clear recollection.
WAR Anybody here that remembers Dec 7, 1941, a day that shall live in infamy?
- Thread starter Troke
- Start date
The US fighting WW2 wuz rayciss. The US is so bad we shoulda let the Axis take us over. Just ask any wokester; they'll tell ya.
Illini Warrior
Illini Warrior
it was just radio and newspaper times back then - some movie house news reels - the country split between FDR pro-war and the WW1 End of Wars contingent >>> lots & lots of ill informed - the attack took them by surprise - a new war was inconceivable ....
anney
Veteran Member
I personally have no memory of the attack on Pearl. But it had great influence my Dad. He was 7 years old when it happened. I believe it contributed to him joining the Air Force at a 17 years of age. Of course he fought no battles but served proudly. He never did like "the japs" as he always called them. Nor did he like any Germans either.
My Mom was only 13 and lived in England. She lived through WW2 as a young teenage girl, seeing her neighborhood bombed with neighbors killed, being shot at by German planes as she and her classmates were running for the bomb shelter, the blackout curtains and curfews at night, the rations of all different products. Her love of the Americans as they began the war in the Pacific and eventually in Europe.
It's hard for me to realize it has been 80 years since this horrific attack happened and I think that is because it was so vivid to both my parents. They lived it, and they were changed because of what they endured. It made them the people they were, both strong in every aspect of their character.
My Mom always prayed that none of us kids would ever have to live through war. I pray that is true for the rest of my life and my grandchildren.
My Mom was only 13 and lived in England. She lived through WW2 as a young teenage girl, seeing her neighborhood bombed with neighbors killed, being shot at by German planes as she and her classmates were running for the bomb shelter, the blackout curtains and curfews at night, the rations of all different products. Her love of the Americans as they began the war in the Pacific and eventually in Europe.
It's hard for me to realize it has been 80 years since this horrific attack happened and I think that is because it was so vivid to both my parents. They lived it, and they were changed because of what they endured. It made them the people they were, both strong in every aspect of their character.
My Mom always prayed that none of us kids would ever have to live through war. I pray that is true for the rest of my life and my grandchildren.
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Old Gray Mare
TB Fanatic
Lest we forget....
Fair use.
Nation Observes 80th Anniversary of Attack on Pearl Harbor
On Dec. 7, 1941, 80 years ago, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, Oahu, an island in the then-U.S. territory of Hawaii.
Some events leading up to the attack provide context to what happened that day.
By 1940, World War II had already engulfed much of Europe and the Pacific, and many Americans were beginning to realize U.S. involvement seemed inevitable.
The Defense Department, then called the War Department, began conducting exercises and ramping up war production in preparation for conflict, should it come.
The draft, known then as the Selective Training and Service Act, was instituted on Sept. 16, 1940.
Before 1940, the U.S Pacific Fleet had been based in San Diego. President Franklin D. Roosevelt ordered the Navy to move the base to Pearl Harbor.
On Oahu, coordination between the Army and Navy was poor, James C. McNaughton, who served as command historian for Army Pacific from 2001 to 2005, said. The Army and the Navy on Hawaii had separate chains of command, and they engaged in very little coordination, at least in practical terms.
Early Sunday morning on the day of the attack, Navy Adm. Husband E. Kimmel, commander in chief of the Pacific Fleet, and counterpart Lt. Gen. Walter Short, commander of the Army Hawaiian Department, were preparing for their weekly golf game, a regular event that enabled them to "check the box" for joint coordination, McNaughton said.
"Well, you need more than that," McNaughton said. "And that's what they didn't do."
In 1946, according to the Army's official history, "Guarding the United States and Its Outposts," the Congressional Pearl Harbor Joint Committee concluded: "There was a complete failure in Hawaii of effective Army-Navy liaison during the critical period and no integration of Army and Navy facilities and efforts for defense. Neither of the responsible commanders really knew what the other was doing with respect to essential military activities."
In the pre-dawn hours of the attack, a submarine periscope was spotted near Pearl Harbor, where there shouldn't have been any submarines. At 6:37 a.m., the destroyer USS Ward dropped depth charges, destroying the submarine. The incident was then reported to the Navy chain of command.
Meanwhile, at the Opana Radar Site on the north shore of Oahu, radar operators Army Pvt. Joseph L. Lockard and Army Pvt. George Elliott detected an unusually large formation of aircraft approaching the island from the north at 7:02 a.m.
At the time, radar was experimental technology, and operators only monitored it from 3 a.m. to 7 a.m., McNaughton said. Usually, the radar was shut off at 7 a.m., but the truck that took Lockard and Elliott to breakfast was late, so the radar was still on at 7:02 a.m.
McNaughton said the operators had never seen such a large number of blips, so they called Army 1st Lt. Kermit A. Tyler, an Air Corps pilot who was an observer that morning at Fort Shafter's Radar Information Center in Oahu.
"Don't worry about it," Tyler told them. He had heard that a flight of B-17 bombers was en route from Hamilton Field, California, that morning.
If the Army and Navy had been in communication, McNaughton believes, they might have recognized the signs of the coming attack: the sighting of a large aircraft formation coming in from the north and the sighting of a submarine at the mouth of Pearl Harbor.
"If you put those two together, you might want to put everyone on full alert. But they didn't," he said. "There was no integration of intelligence from the two services. The only warning they got was when the bombs started to fall."
The first of two waves of some 360 Japanese fighters, bombers and torpedo planes began the attack at 7:48 a.m., having launched from six aircraft carriers north of Oahu.
While many of the Imperial Japanese Navy aircraft attacked the fleet anchored at Pearl Harbor, other planes attacked all the military airfields on the island, including Wheeler Field next to Schofield Barracks.
Within minutes of the attack, Navy antiaircraft guns opened up. The guns were firing at planes in all directions. A number of stray, Navy antiaircraft gun rounds fell in populated areas of Honolulu, killing more than a dozen civilians.
However, the Army's antiaircraft gunners at first struggled to engage the enemy because their guns were not in firing positions, and the ammunition was in a separate location under lock and key.
"You can imagine them looking for the ammunition sergeant who had the keys at 8 a.m. Sunday," McNaughton said. "It took them a while, but some guns did eventually get into action."
Short complained afterward that he had received ambiguous guidance from Washington. He said he was instructed to be prepared to defend against an attack, but he was not to alarm the civilian population, which setting the antiaircraft guns in position might have done.
Even so, the Army, with four regiments of antiaircraft artillery in Oahu, had rehearsed defense against air raids. "They knew it was a possibility," McNaughton said. "But, certainly, they were caught by surprise."
Nevertheless, soldiers found some means to counterattack. At Army installations, soldiers fired back with machine guns and other weapons at attacking enemy dive bombers and fighters, according to the Army's official history.
The Army Air Corps flight of twelve B-17 Fortress Bombers — the aircraft that Tyler thought the radar operators had spotted — arrived in the middle of the attack. They were unarmed and almost out of fuel.
The aircraft landed at various airfields, and one landed on a golf course. One of the aircraft was destroyed by the Japanese, and three were badly damaged, according to the Army's official history.
"Just imagine, it's supposed to be a routine peacetime flight, and you show up in the middle of the biggest air battle the U.S. had ever seen," McNaughton said. "Not a good situation."
Of the 2,403 Americans killed, 2,008 were sailors; 218 were soldiers; 109 were Marines; and 68 were civilians, according to a National World War II Museum Pearl Harbor fact sheet.
Of the aircraft destroyed, 92 were Navy and 77 were Army Air Corps. Two battleships were destroyed, and six were damaged. Three cruisers were damaged; one auxiliary vessel was destroyed, and three were damaged; and three destroyers were damaged, according to the fact sheet.
The carriers USS Enterprise, USS Saratoga and USS Lexington were out on maneuvers and were not spotted by the Japanese, which was a stroke of luck for the United States.
In fact, the Japanese never planned to invade Hawaii, McNaughton said. Rather, they wanted to cripple the U.S. Pacific fleet so it could not interfere with their plans to seize European colonies in Southeast Asia.
Continued next post.
Source:
www.timebomb2000.com
Fair use.
Nation Observes 80th Anniversary of Attack on Pearl Harbor
On Dec. 7, 1941, 80 years ago, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, Oahu, an island in the then-U.S. territory of Hawaii.
Some events leading up to the attack provide context to what happened that day.
By 1940, World War II had already engulfed much of Europe and the Pacific, and many Americans were beginning to realize U.S. involvement seemed inevitable.
The Defense Department, then called the War Department, began conducting exercises and ramping up war production in preparation for conflict, should it come.
The draft, known then as the Selective Training and Service Act, was instituted on Sept. 16, 1940.
Before 1940, the U.S Pacific Fleet had been based in San Diego. President Franklin D. Roosevelt ordered the Navy to move the base to Pearl Harbor.
On Oahu, coordination between the Army and Navy was poor, James C. McNaughton, who served as command historian for Army Pacific from 2001 to 2005, said. The Army and the Navy on Hawaii had separate chains of command, and they engaged in very little coordination, at least in practical terms.
Early Sunday morning on the day of the attack, Navy Adm. Husband E. Kimmel, commander in chief of the Pacific Fleet, and counterpart Lt. Gen. Walter Short, commander of the Army Hawaiian Department, were preparing for their weekly golf game, a regular event that enabled them to "check the box" for joint coordination, McNaughton said.
"Well, you need more than that," McNaughton said. "And that's what they didn't do."
In 1946, according to the Army's official history, "Guarding the United States and Its Outposts," the Congressional Pearl Harbor Joint Committee concluded: "There was a complete failure in Hawaii of effective Army-Navy liaison during the critical period and no integration of Army and Navy facilities and efforts for defense. Neither of the responsible commanders really knew what the other was doing with respect to essential military activities."
In the pre-dawn hours of the attack, a submarine periscope was spotted near Pearl Harbor, where there shouldn't have been any submarines. At 6:37 a.m., the destroyer USS Ward dropped depth charges, destroying the submarine. The incident was then reported to the Navy chain of command.
Meanwhile, at the Opana Radar Site on the north shore of Oahu, radar operators Army Pvt. Joseph L. Lockard and Army Pvt. George Elliott detected an unusually large formation of aircraft approaching the island from the north at 7:02 a.m.
At the time, radar was experimental technology, and operators only monitored it from 3 a.m. to 7 a.m., McNaughton said. Usually, the radar was shut off at 7 a.m., but the truck that took Lockard and Elliott to breakfast was late, so the radar was still on at 7:02 a.m.
McNaughton said the operators had never seen such a large number of blips, so they called Army 1st Lt. Kermit A. Tyler, an Air Corps pilot who was an observer that morning at Fort Shafter's Radar Information Center in Oahu.
"Don't worry about it," Tyler told them. He had heard that a flight of B-17 bombers was en route from Hamilton Field, California, that morning.
If the Army and Navy had been in communication, McNaughton believes, they might have recognized the signs of the coming attack: the sighting of a large aircraft formation coming in from the north and the sighting of a submarine at the mouth of Pearl Harbor.
"If you put those two together, you might want to put everyone on full alert. But they didn't," he said. "There was no integration of intelligence from the two services. The only warning they got was when the bombs started to fall."
The first of two waves of some 360 Japanese fighters, bombers and torpedo planes began the attack at 7:48 a.m., having launched from six aircraft carriers north of Oahu.
While many of the Imperial Japanese Navy aircraft attacked the fleet anchored at Pearl Harbor, other planes attacked all the military airfields on the island, including Wheeler Field next to Schofield Barracks.
Within minutes of the attack, Navy antiaircraft guns opened up. The guns were firing at planes in all directions. A number of stray, Navy antiaircraft gun rounds fell in populated areas of Honolulu, killing more than a dozen civilians.
However, the Army's antiaircraft gunners at first struggled to engage the enemy because their guns were not in firing positions, and the ammunition was in a separate location under lock and key.
"You can imagine them looking for the ammunition sergeant who had the keys at 8 a.m. Sunday," McNaughton said. "It took them a while, but some guns did eventually get into action."
Short complained afterward that he had received ambiguous guidance from Washington. He said he was instructed to be prepared to defend against an attack, but he was not to alarm the civilian population, which setting the antiaircraft guns in position might have done.
Even so, the Army, with four regiments of antiaircraft artillery in Oahu, had rehearsed defense against air raids. "They knew it was a possibility," McNaughton said. "But, certainly, they were caught by surprise."
Nevertheless, soldiers found some means to counterattack. At Army installations, soldiers fired back with machine guns and other weapons at attacking enemy dive bombers and fighters, according to the Army's official history.
The Army Air Corps flight of twelve B-17 Fortress Bombers — the aircraft that Tyler thought the radar operators had spotted — arrived in the middle of the attack. They were unarmed and almost out of fuel.
The aircraft landed at various airfields, and one landed on a golf course. One of the aircraft was destroyed by the Japanese, and three were badly damaged, according to the Army's official history.
"Just imagine, it's supposed to be a routine peacetime flight, and you show up in the middle of the biggest air battle the U.S. had ever seen," McNaughton said. "Not a good situation."
Of the 2,403 Americans killed, 2,008 were sailors; 218 were soldiers; 109 were Marines; and 68 were civilians, according to a National World War II Museum Pearl Harbor fact sheet.
Of the aircraft destroyed, 92 were Navy and 77 were Army Air Corps. Two battleships were destroyed, and six were damaged. Three cruisers were damaged; one auxiliary vessel was destroyed, and three were damaged; and three destroyers were damaged, according to the fact sheet.
The carriers USS Enterprise, USS Saratoga and USS Lexington were out on maneuvers and were not spotted by the Japanese, which was a stroke of luck for the United States.
In fact, the Japanese never planned to invade Hawaii, McNaughton said. Rather, they wanted to cripple the U.S. Pacific fleet so it could not interfere with their plans to seize European colonies in Southeast Asia.
Continued next post.
Source:
Timebomb2000
Here we discuss in great variety what once was, what is now, what may be to come, and the many ways we're devising to remember, endure, and understand our experiences. And perhaps in some way to ready ourselves and our children for the future.
Old Gray Mare
TB Fanatic
Continued from OP.
At the time, Army and Navy signals intelligence personnel were working hard to break the Japanese code, he said. They were intercepting communications and decrypting what they could, but the communications they intercepted gave no clear warning of the impending attack.
Senior Navy and Army leaders relieved Kimmel and Short of their commands within days after the attack.
What the Japanese misjudged was the tremendous anger of the American people, which gave Roosevelt and Congress the motivation to declare war against Japan, as well as Germany, McNaughton said.
In the aftermath of the attack, the Army immediately took over the territory of Hawaii, declaring martial law, which lasted until October 1944. In this unprecedented situation, all local police, courts and government operated under Army supervision. The Army, Navy and FBI placed the local Japanese-American population under close surveillance and placed many community leaders under arrest.
During the war, the soldiers in Hawaii — as in various places along the coasts on the U.S. mainland — never had to fire artillery guns to repel an enemy fleet, McNaughton said. The Army eventually disbanded the Coast Artillery branch; today, it uses sophisticated air and missile defense in coordination with the other services.
Among the lessons to be taken from the Pearl Harbor attack, according to McNaughton, is the crucial importance of operating as part of the joint force. Another is that of striking a fine balance between training and readiness. "You just don't know when your unit will be called to mobilize," he said.
The forced internment of many Japanese-Americans in 1942 was a further tragedy.
"It was really painful to the Japanese-American community at the time," he said. "The vast majority of Japanese-Americans had been loyal citizens. Those who had the opportunity fought for America. And many of those who volunteered died for their country."
On Feb. 1, 1943, Roosevelt announced the creation of segregated units composed of nisei, or second generation, Japanese-American soldiers.
The 100th Infantry Battalion and the 522nd Field Artillery Battalion, composed of Hawaiian nisei, served with great distinction in Europe.
Altogether, about 33,000 nisei served in the armed forces and approximately 800 were killed in action.
After the war ended, Japan became an important ally of the United States.
Many veterans who survived the attack on Pearl Harbor have met over the years and become friends, particularly at the annual Dec. 7 gatherings at the USS Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor.
Although few veterans are still alive to attend, the annual commemorations provide them with a chance for reconciliation and to remember lives lost.
Link to source:
At the time, Army and Navy signals intelligence personnel were working hard to break the Japanese code, he said. They were intercepting communications and decrypting what they could, but the communications they intercepted gave no clear warning of the impending attack.
Senior Navy and Army leaders relieved Kimmel and Short of their commands within days after the attack.
What the Japanese misjudged was the tremendous anger of the American people, which gave Roosevelt and Congress the motivation to declare war against Japan, as well as Germany, McNaughton said.
In the aftermath of the attack, the Army immediately took over the territory of Hawaii, declaring martial law, which lasted until October 1944. In this unprecedented situation, all local police, courts and government operated under Army supervision. The Army, Navy and FBI placed the local Japanese-American population under close surveillance and placed many community leaders under arrest.
During the war, the soldiers in Hawaii — as in various places along the coasts on the U.S. mainland — never had to fire artillery guns to repel an enemy fleet, McNaughton said. The Army eventually disbanded the Coast Artillery branch; today, it uses sophisticated air and missile defense in coordination with the other services.
Among the lessons to be taken from the Pearl Harbor attack, according to McNaughton, is the crucial importance of operating as part of the joint force. Another is that of striking a fine balance between training and readiness. "You just don't know when your unit will be called to mobilize," he said.
The forced internment of many Japanese-Americans in 1942 was a further tragedy.
"It was really painful to the Japanese-American community at the time," he said. "The vast majority of Japanese-Americans had been loyal citizens. Those who had the opportunity fought for America. And many of those who volunteered died for their country."
On Feb. 1, 1943, Roosevelt announced the creation of segregated units composed of nisei, or second generation, Japanese-American soldiers.
The 100th Infantry Battalion and the 522nd Field Artillery Battalion, composed of Hawaiian nisei, served with great distinction in Europe.
Altogether, about 33,000 nisei served in the armed forces and approximately 800 were killed in action.
After the war ended, Japan became an important ally of the United States.
Many veterans who survived the attack on Pearl Harbor have met over the years and become friends, particularly at the annual Dec. 7 gatherings at the USS Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor.
Although few veterans are still alive to attend, the annual commemorations provide them with a chance for reconciliation and to remember lives lost.
Link to source:
Nation Observes 80th Anniversary of Attack on Pearl Harbor
Among the lessons to be taken from the U.S. response to the attack on Pearl Harbor is the importance of operating as part of the joint force, and of striking a balance between training and readiness,
www.defense.gov
ioujc
MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
I also knew one of my Professors in undergraduate college>>>>Dr. Caesar B. Moody!!
He joined the RAF as an American because FDR was taking too long to join the war>>>>he was an AMAZING man!!!
He flew as a fighter pilot in the RAF during the entire war effort. I dearly loved him as a friend and as a FINE man!!
He had severe PTSD>>>>though it was called "Shell Shocked" then.
I miss him a great deal>>>>he was like my second father. He nurtured me and gave me support to get through college>>>>nominating me for scholarships and honor societies >>>>all kinds of stuff>>>got me a job as a lab assistant in the psychology lab, recommended me for work at the Louisiana State School for the Mentally Retarded when I was still just a sophomore in undergrad.>>>allowing me to work full time during the summers>>>>Just an all-round BLESSING in my life!!
He seldom talked about the war>>>only when he was drunk>>>which happened at several parties when I was there. He always sought me out to talk to, said I was the only one who liked him. It made me so sad!!
I never realized the impact he had on my life and my way of thinking until I was in graduate school. I wrote to him, but he was very elderly by then and I did not receive a response>>>>just do not realize what folks mean in your life until later.
Anyway>>>I owe him a MAJOR debt of gratitude, not only for the help he gave me, but also for his major role in WWII!!
He joined the RAF as an American because FDR was taking too long to join the war>>>>he was an AMAZING man!!!
He flew as a fighter pilot in the RAF during the entire war effort. I dearly loved him as a friend and as a FINE man!!
He had severe PTSD>>>>though it was called "Shell Shocked" then.
I miss him a great deal>>>>he was like my second father. He nurtured me and gave me support to get through college>>>>nominating me for scholarships and honor societies >>>>all kinds of stuff>>>got me a job as a lab assistant in the psychology lab, recommended me for work at the Louisiana State School for the Mentally Retarded when I was still just a sophomore in undergrad.>>>allowing me to work full time during the summers>>>>Just an all-round BLESSING in my life!!
He seldom talked about the war>>>only when he was drunk>>>which happened at several parties when I was there. He always sought me out to talk to, said I was the only one who liked him. It made me so sad!!
I never realized the impact he had on my life and my way of thinking until I was in graduate school. I wrote to him, but he was very elderly by then and I did not receive a response>>>>just do not realize what folks mean in your life until later.
Anyway>>>I owe him a MAJOR debt of gratitude, not only for the help he gave me, but also for his major role in WWII!!
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Old Gray Mare
TB Fanatic
If you ever get to Oahu please don't skip the visit to Pearl Harbor and the memorial. I could tell you about the boat ride over and to get tickets, to leave bags in a secure place and not take them to the base. I could tell you much of the base still looks like the set of: "Tora Tora Tora!" because it does and is.
I can't tell you the emotions and memories that will well up when you step into the memorial.
I can't tell you the emotions and memories that will well up when you step into the memorial.
Old Gray Mare
TB Fanatic
Apologies for the dup. I saw there was already a Pearl Harbor thread posted.
Old Gray Mare
TB Fanatic
Iowa Wiley
Contributing Member
We visited Oahu in 2008, and spent the day visiting the U.S.S. Arizona, Schofield, Wheeler, the U.S.S. Missouri, and the Punch Bowl. You are absolutely correct about the emotions and memories of visiting the Arizona. My dad's youngest brother was stationed at Pearl in December of '41, a 17 year old kid who ran away from home in Nebraska with his girlfriend, eloped, and joined the service. They had a small apartment above a bar in downtown Honolulu and he said when the Arizona went up it almost knocked them out of bed from the concussion. The memorial is one of the few places I have visited in my life that I had a hard time keeping my composure. Truly it is like entering a church, much the way it used to be at the Alamo.
Old Gray Mare
TB Fanatic
An upperclassman at my Dad's high school was on the Arizona.
For those unfamiliar with Oahu, The Punch Bowl is now a military cemetery. It's also a volcanic crater. Many locals have relatives buried there. It's normal to see them picnicking near a family grave. There is a memorial there with maps recounting WWII military actions in the Pacific. I felt emotions there similar to those experienced at Arizona memorial. Somehow the Punch Bowl seemed more personal. Journalist Ernie Pyle is buried there. He died covering the battle of Okinawa.
Doomer Doug
TB Fanatic
The demographics are fading. If you were active duty age 20 at Pearl Harbor you would be 100. Age 18 would put you at 98, and that would mean very few who experienced WW2 are alive.
Remember is a different ball game, say 10 years old, 90 like Dennis said.
I both remember and experienced JFK'S murder in November of 1963, even though I was only 9 years old. I VIVIDLY remember being in 4th grade classroom and the announcement coming over the school wall speaker.
Dole died at 98 two days ago, and my Dad died 2 years ago at 98 too.
They will likely all be gone by 10 years, the end of the decade.
I experienced the whole cultural atmosphere of JFK'S death.
Remember is a different ball game, say 10 years old, 90 like Dennis said.
I both remember and experienced JFK'S murder in November of 1963, even though I was only 9 years old. I VIVIDLY remember being in 4th grade classroom and the announcement coming over the school wall speaker.
Dole died at 98 two days ago, and my Dad died 2 years ago at 98 too.
They will likely all be gone by 10 years, the end of the decade.
I experienced the whole cultural atmosphere of JFK'S death.
Ragnarok
On and On, South of Heaven
Like WWII, sometimes wars are necessary and righteous.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Being nearly 70 I don't, But....
My dad, because of a number of issues linked to survival, (the winter of 39, and 40-41 was really bad, food was in short supply) had joined the Army in Jan. 1941. Was still state side, don't remember the timing but was either at Camp Shelby, MS. or in GA. When the news came. Part of his training got interrupted, when he was subpoenaed to appear in court as a witness in a murder trial. Don't know if that caused him to have to repeat that phase or not.
My Accounting Professor told us, he had gotten married Dec. 6, which would have been a Sat. and didn't know anything about Pearl Harbour for 3 days. Was on his honeymoon. He might have been 4F because he only related stories of the war from the people they were staying/living with while he finished College at State.
My dad, because of a number of issues linked to survival, (the winter of 39, and 40-41 was really bad, food was in short supply) had joined the Army in Jan. 1941. Was still state side, don't remember the timing but was either at Camp Shelby, MS. or in GA. When the news came. Part of his training got interrupted, when he was subpoenaed to appear in court as a witness in a murder trial. Don't know if that caused him to have to repeat that phase or not.
My Accounting Professor told us, he had gotten married Dec. 6, which would have been a Sat. and didn't know anything about Pearl Harbour for 3 days. Was on his honeymoon. He might have been 4F because he only related stories of the war from the people they were staying/living with while he finished College at State.
No President EVER loved the Navy like FDR. He would not have let them be a target had he known.
The Attack on Pearl Harbor Was No Surprise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1niZil4lNjU Researchers about the December 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor know that President Franklin Roosevelt had provoked this Japanese attack to justify America’s entry into World War II. Most Americans were against joining the war, but the attack on Pearl...theduran.com
View: https://youtu.be/1niZil4lNjU
RT 9 minutes
Researchers about the December 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor know that President Franklin Roosevelt had provoked this Japanese attack to justify America’s entry into World War II. Most Americans were against joining the war, but the attack on Pearl Harbor provided the excuse needed to declare war. The best book on this topic is “Day of Deceit” by former World War II Navy officer Robert Stinnett. The topics he covers are controversial because most people refuse to accept that Roosevelt and top military leaders in Washington DC failed to inform the commanders in Hawaii that a Japanese fleet was coming to attack.
Iowa Wiley
Contributing Member
My dad's youngest brother was stationed at Pearl in December of '41, a 17 year old kid who ran away from home in Nebraska with his girlfriend, eloped, and joined the Coast Guard. They had a small apartment above a bar in downtown Honolulu and he said when the Arizona went up it almost knocked them out of bed from the concussion. He was a mechanic on a patrol boat and learned how to work on aviation engines as the patrol boats were powered with aircraft engines. He transferred to the Army Air Corps in '43 and was in on every major island hop after. He was stationed on the airfield on Iwo Jima after the Marines took that sandpile. I have several pictures somewhere showing him and some mechanic buddies going through the caves not long after they arrived. He ended up being stationed in Japan for a couple of years right after the surrender, and then transferred into the brand new Air Force. He stayed in till the mid '70's and was a liaison between the Air Force and Boeing during the '50's working on the B-52 as he became an expert in hydraulics.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Same here except I was in 6th grade.
Ragnarok
On and On, South of Heaven
That's a bit of a supposition.
Would he let them be attacked if he thought it would save the country?
Would people like George Marshall, and many others, also be complicit? We got our asses kicked because they outsmarted us pure and simple.
That's a bit of a supposition.
Would he let them be attacked if he thought it would save the country?
BTW the war he thought would save the country was in the other direction.
That's a bit of a supposition.
Would he let them be attacked if he thought it would save the country?
I just called my mom to ask if she remembered when she heard about the bombing of Pearl Harbor. She said she and my dad were at her parent's house and grandpa had the radio on when the news came across. Later her brother and his family came in and they hadn't heard. Yes, my mother is 100.
L.A.B.
Goodness before greatness.
I agree. The current Pearl Harbor, care of our Poli-Cience hacks and The CCP, is all bottled up awaiting the new draft.
A knew war, known as far back as the Spring of 96 has been sprung upon US. The battlefield is the mind, and fear is the Greatest Weapon to incite the people into predictable behaviors.
Good Luck America.
AlaskaSue
North to the Future
I wasn’t around yet, but if I may share my dad’s story: he was the second-youngest of 13 kids on an Oklahoma family farm. Grandpa also worked at the original Halliburton plant (dad and uncles eventually did too). [In fact so did all my brothers, both my sons, and I, but in Alaska.]
Dec 7 1941 was the day before Daddy turned 11. After hearing the news, he and my uncles spent the rest of that day and much of his birthday patrolling the farmstead with their rifles. He told me he’d never forget the feel of the awesome seriousness with which the boys all took their self-appointed task. His oldest brother ended up fighting in the Navy during that war; our only family loss was my aunt’s brother-in-law - a pilot who didn’t make it home.
Dec 7 1941 was the day before Daddy turned 11. After hearing the news, he and my uncles spent the rest of that day and much of his birthday patrolling the farmstead with their rifles. He told me he’d never forget the feel of the awesome seriousness with which the boys all took their self-appointed task. His oldest brother ended up fighting in the Navy during that war; our only family loss was my aunt’s brother-in-law - a pilot who didn’t make it home.
Dad had just hit a honerun in stickball when somebody came out of a building yelling the news. Mom was coming out of a movie theater with her family when they saw the extra newspaper editions. Grandpa was stunned- he'd come here as an infant an never obtained US citizenship.
alpha
Veteran Member
In 1965 my all mens school graduating class of 523 young men were inducted into the Vietnam 'conflict'... we've never had a class reunion!
ioujc
MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
FDR was a con>>>>he was warned repeatedly according to all I have ever read about it.
Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not - The New American
Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II. By James Perloff
thenewamerican.com
I was a toddler in 1941 but I remember my dad saying he was in the Navy and stationed in Pensacola
FL before Pearl Harbor. He was suppose to go out on the Arkansas but broke his back beaching planes . He said that was the luckiest break he ever had and would never accept any disability benefits.
FL before Pearl Harbor. He was suppose to go out on the Arkansas but broke his back beaching planes . He said that was the luckiest break he ever had and would never accept any disability benefits.
L.A.B.
Goodness before greatness.
FDR was a con>>>>he was warned repeatedly according to all I have ever read about it.
Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not - The New American
Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II. By James Perloff
My cousin, a product of the 60’s college era, held FDR on a portable shrine in conversations. His father mid way through the first decade of the 21st century held an opposing view. I never solicited his POV, out of respect to him living the attack at Pearl. He just delivered it one day in the month before he passed.
One thing for sure. That generation did not suffer from a innocent or arrogant normalcy bias. Head’s up meant one thing!
Gird your thighs brother…. It’s almost within bleeding range.
Mary Contrary
Inactive
No, I'm too young being born in 1948, but when I was a teen I remember my dad always cursing ",those dirty Japs". He said it a lot. At the time I never knew why he hated Japs. He had been in the Navy.
SlipperySlope
Veteran Member
I just remembered a funny story. My Uncle Ken was in ww2 as a navy pilot. He always called the Japanese dirty Japs but when the all new breakthrough 1986 Honda Accord came out he rushed to buy one. I didn't have the nerve to ask him how he could do that. BTW he just died a few months ago at age 96.
EMICT
Veteran Member
After Pearl Harbor, my uncles (like most adult males) signed up for service. I had an uncle that died on Omaha beach, and three other uncles who served in the South Pacific. Two were in the Seabees and one was on the Hornet.
I still remember them telling the story about this one un-named island where two Seabee squadrons were brought together to create a make shift runway and refueling depot. Unknowingly, my two uncles in two different Seabee squadrons were brought together for construction and my third uncle, who was on the Hornet, happened to land on the runway for refueling during the same time frame. They all three managed to end up in the same hooch, erected on the island, at the same time... none of the three knowing where the others were stationed at the time or if any of the four brothers were still alive, and the three managed to have an hour and a half family reunion in the middle of a war zone.
For the remaining time of the war, they lost track of one another... but they did have that hour and a half together on some un-named island in the South Pacific.
The three uncles in the Navy all survived the conflict. My uncle on Omaha beach was the only casualty in my family.
I still remember them telling the story about this one un-named island where two Seabee squadrons were brought together to create a make shift runway and refueling depot. Unknowingly, my two uncles in two different Seabee squadrons were brought together for construction and my third uncle, who was on the Hornet, happened to land on the runway for refueling during the same time frame. They all three managed to end up in the same hooch, erected on the island, at the same time... none of the three knowing where the others were stationed at the time or if any of the four brothers were still alive, and the three managed to have an hour and a half family reunion in the middle of a war zone.
For the remaining time of the war, they lost track of one another... but they did have that hour and a half together on some un-named island in the South Pacific.
The three uncles in the Navy all survived the conflict. My uncle on Omaha beach was the only casualty in my family.
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homecanner1
Veteran Member
Texas radio host John B. Wells daddy was at Pearl Harbor, if you tune in to Caravan to Midnight tonight, he may mention it again.
On this 80th anniv so that we never forget, the attack scene from the film Pearl Harbor.
7 minutes and 55 seconds of re created hell on earth
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg32oOGdt1M
On this 80th anniv so that we never forget, the attack scene from the film Pearl Harbor.
7 minutes and 55 seconds of re created hell on earth
My DW claims I never got past the age of 19. I am not quite 90 but close enough that I can see it. I can remember the Brits chasing the Bismarck, and the bombing of the Panay. Was a while before I found out that it was a ship. With a name like that, who knew?
TammyinWI
Talk is cheap
Doris Miller
Doris Miller (October 12, 1919 – November 24, 1943) was a United States Navy cook third class who was killed in action during World War II.[1] He was the first black American to be awarded the Navy Cross, the highest decoration for valor in combat after the Medal of Honor.[2][3]
Miller served aboard the battleship West Virginia, which was sunk by Japanese torpedo bombers during the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. During the attack, he helped several sailors who were wounded, and while manning an anti-aircraft machine gun for which he had no training, he shot down several Japanese planes.[3][4] Miller's actions earned him the medal, and the resulting publicity for Miller in the black press made him an iconic emblem of the fight for civil rights for black Americans.[5] In November 1943, Miller was killed while serving aboard the escort carrier Liscome Bay when it was sunk by a Japanese submarine during the Battle of Makin in the Gilbert Islands.
The destroyer escort/Knox-class frigate USS Miller (reclassified as a frigate in June 1975), in service from 1973 to 1991, was named after him.[6] On January 19, 2020, the Navy announced that a Gerald R. Ford-class nuclear powered aircraft carrier, CVN-81, would be named after Miller. The ship is scheduled to be laid down in 2023 and launched in 2028.[7][8
Early life and education[edit]
Miller was born in Waco, Texas, on October 12, 1919, to Connery and Henrietta Miller. He was named Doris, as the midwife who assisted his mother was convinced before his birth that the baby would be a girl.[9] He was the third of four sons and helped around the house, cooked meals and did laundry, as well as working on the family farm. He was a fullback on the football team at Waco's Alexander James Moore High School.[10] He began attending the eighth grade again on January 25, 1937, at the age of 17 he repeated the grade the following year due to poor performance, so he decided to drop out of school.[11] He filled his time squirrel hunting with a .22 rifle and completed a correspondence course in taxidermy. He applied to join the Civilian Conservation Corps, but was not accepted. At that time, he was 6 feet 3 inches (1.91 m) tall and weighed more than 200 pounds (91 kg).[11] Miller worked on his father's farm until shortly before his 20th birthday,
Miller's nickname "Dorie" may have originated from a typographical error. He was nominated for recognition for his actions on December 7, 1941, and the Pittsburgh Courier released a story on March 14, 1942, which gave his name as "Dorie Miller".[12] Since then, some writers have suggested that it was a "nickname to shipmates and friends".[11]
Naval career
Miller enlisted in the U.S. Navy as a mess attendant third class at the Naval Recruiting Station in Dallas, Texas, for six years on September 16, 1939.[1] Mess attendant was one of the few ratings open at the time to black sailors.[13] He was transferred to the Naval Training Center, Naval Operating Base, Norfolk, Virginia, arriving on September 19.[1] After training school, he was assigned to the ammunition ship Pyro (AE-1) and then transferred on January 2, 1940, to the Colorado-class battleship West Virginia (BB-48). It was on the West Virginia where he started competition boxing, becoming the ship's heavyweight champion. In July, he was on temporary duty aboard the Nevada (BB-36) at Secondary Battery Gunnery School. He returned to the West Virginia on August 3. He advanced in rating to mess attendant second class on February 16, 1941.[3][13]
Attack on Pearl Harbor
Main article: Attack on Pearl Harbor
Miller was a crewman aboard the West Virginia and awoke at 6 a.m. on December 7, 1941. He served breakfast mess and was collecting laundry at 7:57 a.m. when planes from the Japanese aircraft carrier Akagi fired the first of seven torpedoes that hit West Virginia.[11] The "Battle Stations" alarm went off; Miller headed for his battle station, an anti-aircraft battery magazine amidships, only to discover that a torpedo had destroyed it.
He went then to "Times Square" on deck, a central spot aboard the ship where the fore-to-aft and port-to-starboard passageways crossed, reporting himself available for other duty and was assigned to help carry wounded sailors to places of greater safety.[11] Lieutenant Commander Doir C. Johnson, the ship's communications officer, spotted Miller and saw his physical prowess, so he ordered him to accompany him to the conning tower on the flag bridge to assist in moving the ship's captain, Mervyn Bennion, who had a gaping wound in his abdomen where he had apparently been hit by shrapnel after the first Japanese attack.[14] Miller and another sailor lifted the skipper but were unable to remove him from the bridge, so they carried him on a cot from his exposed position on the damaged bridge to a sheltered spot on the deck behind the conning tower where he remained during the second Japanese attack.[14][4] Captain Bennion refused to leave his post, questioned his officers and men about the condition of the ship, and gave orders and instructions to crew members to defend the ship and fight.[14] Unable to go to the deck below because of smoke and flames, he was carried up a ladder to the navigation bridge, where he died from blood loss despite the aid from a pharmacist mate.[14] He was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor.[15]
Lieutenant Frederic H. White had ordered Miller to help him and Ensign Victor Delano load the unmanned number 1 and number 2 Browning .50 caliber anti-aircraft machine guns aft of the conning tower.[16] Miller was not familiar with the weapon, but White and Delano instructed him on how to operate it. Delano expected Miller to feed ammunition to one gun, but his attention was diverted and, when he looked again, Miller was firing one of the guns. White then loaded ammunition into both guns and assigned Miller the starboard gun.[11]
Miller fired the gun until he ran out of ammunition, when he was ordered by Lieutenant Claude V. Ricketts to help carry the captain up to the navigation bridge out of the thick oily smoke generated by the many fires on and around the ship; Miller who was officially credited with downing at least two enemy planes.[4] "I think I got one of those Jap planes. They were diving pretty close to us," he said later.[3] Japanese aircraft eventually dropped two armor-piercing bombs through the deck of the battleship and launched five 18-inch (460 mm) aircraft torpedoes into her port side. When the attack finally lessened, Miller helped move injured sailors through oil and water to the quarterdeck, thereby "unquestionably saving the lives of a number of people who might otherwise have been lost".[17]
The ship was heavily damaged by bombs, torpedoes, and resulting explosions and fires, but the crew prevented her from capsizing by counter-flooding a number of compartments. Instead, West Virginia sank to the harbor bottom in shallow water as her surviving crew abandoned ship, including Miller;[3] the ship was raised and restored for continued service in the war. On the West Virginia, 132 men were killed and 52 were wounded from the Japanese attack. On December 13, Miller reported to the heavy cruiser Indianapolis (CA-35).
Commendation
Admiral Chester W. Nimitz pins a Navy Cross on Mess Attendant Second Class Miller during a ceremony aboard the USS Enterprise (CV-6) at Pearl Harbor, on May 27, 1942.
On January 1, 1942, the Navy released a list of commendations for actions on December 7. Among them was a single commendation for an unnamed black man. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) had asked President Franklin D. Roosevelt to award the Distinguished Service Cross to the unknown black sailor. The Navy Board of Awards received a recommendation that the sailor be considered for recognition. On March 12, an Associated Press story named Miller as the sailor, citing the African-American newspaper Pittsburgh Courier;[18] additional news reports credited Lawrence D. Reddick with learning the name through correspondence with the Navy Department.[19] In the following days, Senator James M. Mead (D-NY) introduced a Senate bill [S.Res. 2392] to award Miller the Medal of Honor,[20] and Representative John D. Dingell, Sr. (D-MI) introduced a matching House bill [H.R. 6800].[21]
Miller was recognized as one of the "first US heroes of World War II". He was commended in a letter signed by Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox on April 1, and the next day, CBS Radio broadcast an episode of the series They Live Forever, which dramatized Miller's actions.[11]
MAtt1c[25] Miller speaking with sailors and a civilian at Great Lakes Naval Training Station, January 7, 1943
Continued next post:
| Doris Miller | |
|---|---|
Miller wearing his Navy Cross | |
| Nickname(s) | "Dorie" |
| Born | October 12, 1919 Waco, Texas, U.S. |
| Died | November 24, 1943 (aged 24) USS Liscome Bay, off Makin Atoll, Gilbert and Ellice Islands |
| Allegiance |
|
| Service/branch |
|
| Years of service | 1939–1943 |
| Rank | Cook Third Class |
| Service number | 356-12-35 |
| Unit | |
| Battles/wars | World War II |
| Awards |
Miller served aboard the battleship West Virginia, which was sunk by Japanese torpedo bombers during the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. During the attack, he helped several sailors who were wounded, and while manning an anti-aircraft machine gun for which he had no training, he shot down several Japanese planes.[3][4] Miller's actions earned him the medal, and the resulting publicity for Miller in the black press made him an iconic emblem of the fight for civil rights for black Americans.[5] In November 1943, Miller was killed while serving aboard the escort carrier Liscome Bay when it was sunk by a Japanese submarine during the Battle of Makin in the Gilbert Islands.
The destroyer escort/Knox-class frigate USS Miller (reclassified as a frigate in June 1975), in service from 1973 to 1991, was named after him.[6] On January 19, 2020, the Navy announced that a Gerald R. Ford-class nuclear powered aircraft carrier, CVN-81, would be named after Miller. The ship is scheduled to be laid down in 2023 and launched in 2028.[7][8
Early life and education[edit]
Miller was born in Waco, Texas, on October 12, 1919, to Connery and Henrietta Miller. He was named Doris, as the midwife who assisted his mother was convinced before his birth that the baby would be a girl.[9] He was the third of four sons and helped around the house, cooked meals and did laundry, as well as working on the family farm. He was a fullback on the football team at Waco's Alexander James Moore High School.[10] He began attending the eighth grade again on January 25, 1937, at the age of 17 he repeated the grade the following year due to poor performance, so he decided to drop out of school.[11] He filled his time squirrel hunting with a .22 rifle and completed a correspondence course in taxidermy. He applied to join the Civilian Conservation Corps, but was not accepted. At that time, he was 6 feet 3 inches (1.91 m) tall and weighed more than 200 pounds (91 kg).[11] Miller worked on his father's farm until shortly before his 20th birthday,
Miller's nickname "Dorie" may have originated from a typographical error. He was nominated for recognition for his actions on December 7, 1941, and the Pittsburgh Courier released a story on March 14, 1942, which gave his name as "Dorie Miller".[12] Since then, some writers have suggested that it was a "nickname to shipmates and friends".[11]
Naval career
Miller enlisted in the U.S. Navy as a mess attendant third class at the Naval Recruiting Station in Dallas, Texas, for six years on September 16, 1939.[1] Mess attendant was one of the few ratings open at the time to black sailors.[13] He was transferred to the Naval Training Center, Naval Operating Base, Norfolk, Virginia, arriving on September 19.[1] After training school, he was assigned to the ammunition ship Pyro (AE-1) and then transferred on January 2, 1940, to the Colorado-class battleship West Virginia (BB-48). It was on the West Virginia where he started competition boxing, becoming the ship's heavyweight champion. In July, he was on temporary duty aboard the Nevada (BB-36) at Secondary Battery Gunnery School. He returned to the West Virginia on August 3. He advanced in rating to mess attendant second class on February 16, 1941.[3][13]
Attack on Pearl Harbor
Main article: Attack on Pearl Harbor
Miller was a crewman aboard the West Virginia and awoke at 6 a.m. on December 7, 1941. He served breakfast mess and was collecting laundry at 7:57 a.m. when planes from the Japanese aircraft carrier Akagi fired the first of seven torpedoes that hit West Virginia.[11] The "Battle Stations" alarm went off; Miller headed for his battle station, an anti-aircraft battery magazine amidships, only to discover that a torpedo had destroyed it.
He went then to "Times Square" on deck, a central spot aboard the ship where the fore-to-aft and port-to-starboard passageways crossed, reporting himself available for other duty and was assigned to help carry wounded sailors to places of greater safety.[11] Lieutenant Commander Doir C. Johnson, the ship's communications officer, spotted Miller and saw his physical prowess, so he ordered him to accompany him to the conning tower on the flag bridge to assist in moving the ship's captain, Mervyn Bennion, who had a gaping wound in his abdomen where he had apparently been hit by shrapnel after the first Japanese attack.[14] Miller and another sailor lifted the skipper but were unable to remove him from the bridge, so they carried him on a cot from his exposed position on the damaged bridge to a sheltered spot on the deck behind the conning tower where he remained during the second Japanese attack.[14][4] Captain Bennion refused to leave his post, questioned his officers and men about the condition of the ship, and gave orders and instructions to crew members to defend the ship and fight.[14] Unable to go to the deck below because of smoke and flames, he was carried up a ladder to the navigation bridge, where he died from blood loss despite the aid from a pharmacist mate.[14] He was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor.[15]
Lieutenant Frederic H. White had ordered Miller to help him and Ensign Victor Delano load the unmanned number 1 and number 2 Browning .50 caliber anti-aircraft machine guns aft of the conning tower.[16] Miller was not familiar with the weapon, but White and Delano instructed him on how to operate it. Delano expected Miller to feed ammunition to one gun, but his attention was diverted and, when he looked again, Miller was firing one of the guns. White then loaded ammunition into both guns and assigned Miller the starboard gun.[11]
Miller fired the gun until he ran out of ammunition, when he was ordered by Lieutenant Claude V. Ricketts to help carry the captain up to the navigation bridge out of the thick oily smoke generated by the many fires on and around the ship; Miller who was officially credited with downing at least two enemy planes.[4] "I think I got one of those Jap planes. They were diving pretty close to us," he said later.[3] Japanese aircraft eventually dropped two armor-piercing bombs through the deck of the battleship and launched five 18-inch (460 mm) aircraft torpedoes into her port side. When the attack finally lessened, Miller helped move injured sailors through oil and water to the quarterdeck, thereby "unquestionably saving the lives of a number of people who might otherwise have been lost".[17]
The ship was heavily damaged by bombs, torpedoes, and resulting explosions and fires, but the crew prevented her from capsizing by counter-flooding a number of compartments. Instead, West Virginia sank to the harbor bottom in shallow water as her surviving crew abandoned ship, including Miller;[3] the ship was raised and restored for continued service in the war. On the West Virginia, 132 men were killed and 52 were wounded from the Japanese attack. On December 13, Miller reported to the heavy cruiser Indianapolis (CA-35).
Commendation
Admiral Chester W. Nimitz pins a Navy Cross on Mess Attendant Second Class Miller during a ceremony aboard the USS Enterprise (CV-6) at Pearl Harbor, on May 27, 1942.
On January 1, 1942, the Navy released a list of commendations for actions on December 7. Among them was a single commendation for an unnamed black man. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) had asked President Franklin D. Roosevelt to award the Distinguished Service Cross to the unknown black sailor. The Navy Board of Awards received a recommendation that the sailor be considered for recognition. On March 12, an Associated Press story named Miller as the sailor, citing the African-American newspaper Pittsburgh Courier;[18] additional news reports credited Lawrence D. Reddick with learning the name through correspondence with the Navy Department.[19] In the following days, Senator James M. Mead (D-NY) introduced a Senate bill [S.Res. 2392] to award Miller the Medal of Honor,[20] and Representative John D. Dingell, Sr. (D-MI) introduced a matching House bill [H.R. 6800].[21]
Miller was recognized as one of the "first US heroes of World War II". He was commended in a letter signed by Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox on April 1, and the next day, CBS Radio broadcast an episode of the series They Live Forever, which dramatized Miller's actions.[11]
MAtt1c[25] Miller speaking with sailors and a civilian at Great Lakes Naval Training Station, January 7, 1943
Continued next post:
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EMICT
Veteran Member
Troke, I've given you a lot of grief here from time to time about your postings, but admire what you have endured and what you have seen in your life. Thanks for sharing.