A Question for Christians

[Samson]

We live in the inner city. The people around us are poor, ignorant and doing everything you feel is repugnant. Our income is probably less than they get from the government. TSHTF and they are beating your door down. They do not have a drop of water or a crumb of food.

I have weapons. Do I use them and try to save ourselves or say F#@k it? Take what you want and kill me and mine?

I am afraid it may come to this. How hard should you fight? How peaceful and surrendering to kindness and giving should you be? This may be the most important decision we make that will last for an eternity.

 

[MaureenO]

Samson, I think this is not a "Christian" question, but a "human" question.

For me, it would depend on the demeanour of the persons at my door. If they were huddled, frightened, with little children or elderly, I would share what little I had.

If they were bullish and brutal they'd be on their own.

Maureen

 

[okie medicvet]

I had a choice to make about five years ago. Live in a very bad neighborhood..live with my parents..or find another place to live. So I took a tour across the country on an amtrack visiting relatives and old army buddies, and found a better place to live.

My suggestion? move..even if you think it's not feasible..if you look into it, you might find it more possible than you originally thought.

 

[Matt]

In Luke, Christ tells us to sell our cloak and buy a sword. King David was sent to war often and killed many. This roll over and die crap is not Biblical. Read the Bible for yourself, without outside commentary and influence; and ignore all of the religiosity going on these days. NIV and a Concordance will answer all of your questions.

 

[cryhavoc]

Samson, don't confuse 'meekness', with 'weakness'.

You've been given charge over a wife, and or a family. They deserve your very best - in every area of life. This includes defending them....'all the way'.

Have a plan of escape, as well as a plan of defense. A 'controlled retrograde' movement is sometimes called for, and your family's safety may count on it.

Remember: Saul killed his thousands, David killed his tens of thousands.

cryhavoc

 

[Terriannie]

Samson I don't think you need to worry. First, the people will more than likely head for the civic center distribution areas and probably park there till help arrives. Remember the Superdome? The worst case scenario of people clamoring at your door won't happen.

Second, I would put my full trust in the Lord and help those that do need help keeping in mind that whatever you do for the least of these you do it for Jesus.

I know from experience that whatever you give is returned ten-fold. In our town we practically cleaned out our pantrys right after the hurricane to give for distribution to the refugee center near Baton Rouge. Remember FEMA and how quick they acted? I have hit more sales and good deals to replenish my prep stock in no time flat.

To be honest, it never once occurred to me that I would have to defend my stocks and all we had was an officer to cruise our town collectin center at the church hall. My own personal gun was kept by the bed, but for some rason I felt I wouldn't need it during the darkness. The only thing I can attribute that to is the Holy Spirit as I am a naturally suspicious person.

If you do need to defend your family, do so but do it with the intent of preventing someone from harming or commiting murder. In other words shoot to maim not kill since you don't know if his evil intent is due to desperation or craziness. Patch up his wounds, give a sip of water and drop him off at the nearest civic center.

By the very fact that you worry about how your actions will affect eternity means that you'll do just fine.

 

[Robin Hood]

well said and amen Terriannie

rh

 

[Wise Owl]

This is a decision we all will have to make in the near future. When you take a spouse in the name of the Lord, you are responsible for defending and caring for that spouse and any childern that come of that union. If you are asked to share with another you will know what to do when it happens if you are walking with our Lord Jesus as he will let you know what to do.

I agree pretty much with Terrianne, not all but most.

 

[Chronicles]

Samson

It is a SIN to not protect and care for your own family.

Have you read the story of Gideon?

11 And there came an angel of the LORD, and sat under an oak which was in Ophrah, that pertained unto Joash the Abiezrite: and his son Gideon threshed wheat by the winepress, to hide it from the Midianites.
12 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.

This story is in Judges chapters 6, 7, and 8

REMEMBER this, The angel of the lord did not address Gideon as a Pacifist.

AND THIS..
Malachi 3:
6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

IF you Samson or anyone else wants the full scriptual text, support I will comply, via PM or a thread in the relg. section..


IF you are concerned about your neighbors becoming killers and you are able to leave for a better area, please do so. Moving has been a good thing for many Christians, that I know. I know where you can buy land for $200. Down and $200 or less per month way out in the Country with water and good folk for neighbors.

Glory to God for making you think about this problem, and ask yourself this, could God be putting this on your mind, so that you may be saved from what IS comming?

 

[mistaken1]

Psalms 23

1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want; 2 he makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters; 3 he restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. 4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil; for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. 5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies; thou anointest my head with oil, my cup overflows. 6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; and I shall dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Trust in the Lord.

 

[New Freedom]

We live in the inner city. The people around us are poor, ignorant and doing everything you feel is repugnant. Our income is probably less than they get from the government. TSHTF and they are beating your door down. They do not have a drop of water or a crumb of food.

I have weapons. Do I use them and try to save ourselves or say F#@k it? Take what you want and kill me and mine?

I am afraid it may come to this. How hard should you fight? How peaceful and surrendering to kindness and giving should you be? This may be the most important decision we make that will last for an eternity.

Samson.....can you get out of the city somehow? Do you have relatives or close friends that could help you re-locate? I know how hard that is to do.......but sometimes we need to take BIG risks. Any 'little' door might be all it takes to push it open and leave. Pray for options and be willing to look at possiblities that you never thought of before.

To answer you question, IMO, it is never wrong for self-defense......but pray that you never have to.

 

[fruit loop]

Protect yourself first

You must provide for your spouse and children first.

Consider your circumstances; for me it would depend on the emergency. Natural disaster - you can bet I'll set up a soup kitchen in my front yard. We shared our food during the blizzard of 2000 and the ice storm of 2002, because we knew it would be of relatively short duration and we'd be able to replenish our preps later. We stock three months' worth of supplies so we could spare quite a bit.

Most people will work with you, or offer something in exchange for your assistance. It's also a good opportunity to educate others: one neighbor, a guy we consider really irresponsible, asked for our help but offered us gas for our generator in exchange, so we let him plug into it. Afterwards he asked for prep advice, and Toucan Sam took him shopping for his own kerosene heater and generator when the stores had them back in stock. He's a believer now and his family will be safer as a result.

In a big crisis of unknown duration things might be different, and you may have to make hard decisions.

One thing important to me, is that no matter how bad a situation gets, I won't lose my humanity or my capacity to care for others. On the other hand, I don't have to be nursemaid for lazy freeloaders either!

 

[fruit loop]

From my series on the Corkboard

OTHER - PREP 101: Part 22 Dealing With Freeloaders

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We know they're out there, lurking like leeches. Relatives and "friends" who constantly borrow but never return or pay back and need the help of God and the nearest sucker to get them through dinner. You know that Uncle Bob and his brood of bloodsuckers will be the first to knock on your door when the ice storm knocks out the power.

Decide NOW how to deal with these people. You have several options: you can refuse to tell them about your prep stock, try to persuade them of the necessity to take some precautions for themselves, or take your chances and sit on your porch with a shotgun waiting for the Hungry Horde to show up. (And you must also decide if you're willing to use said shotgun).

I personally confine my information to people I care strongly about. Of course I get the jokes about being "one of those survivalist fruit loops" and the laughs of "Well, I know who to come and stay with when the S hits the fan!"

I quickly let them know that this will NOT be acceptable, and give them information on how to get started. I tell them I am available to give advice, but that I will not take care of any lazy freeloaders and will take any means necessary to protect MY FAMILY'S PERSONAL SUPPLIES.

Now, if Uncle Bob shows up and says something like "Hurricane Floyd tore the roof and the back wall off of our house. We salvaged everything we could and we'll work for the rest if you'll take us in" - well, that's another matter.

Thus far I've been lucky. My near and dear either took my advice or, after experiencing Hurricane Floyd, the North Carolina Blizzard of 2000, and the Ice Storm of 2002, began asking for help.

If you choose to try and share your wisdom, be prepared for ridicule. Laugh it off. You'll be the one laughing when disaster strikes, believe me. I didn't think the world would come to an end on December 31, 1999, but I was worried enough about crashes that I had seen in pre-Y2K drills to stock supplies. I was glad I did. We used my Doomer Pile when Hurricane Floyd roared through, and in January 2000 North Carolina got the blizzard of the century - 20 inches of snow - which shut the town down for almost two weeks. We ran out of food and subsisted on my prep stock. My unbelieving spouse willingly dined on crow and began helping me replenish my stores.

Protecting your preps is another matter that will be covered in a future thread. This is the most personal and intense part of prepping: defending yourself, your lair, and your supplies. Decide now what measures you're willing to take. Shooting bloodsuckers may become a very real part of what's already a disaster.

 

[Karnie]

I have weapons. Do I use them and try to save ourselves or say F#@k it? Take what you want and kill me and mine?

I am afraid it may come to this. How hard should you fight? How peaceful and surrendering to kindness and giving should you be? This may be the most important decision we make that will last for an eternity.

Remember the story of the widow and her son who had just enough food left for one meal. Her intent was not to share... but instead she was going to make the one last meal and then die. However, the Lord changed her plan and when she fed the man of God, her stores lasted the three of them for over a year.

The reason for reminding you of this poor widow is that you may have a plan in mind... and the Lord may direct you otherwise. If you're a Christian, you hear His voice and you follow Him. I also have guns and have made plans to be able to protect my family and our resources if need be. However, I believe that we'll know exactly what to do when the time comes.

 

[Gordana]

In a time of extreme stress, people will protect that which they value the most - whether that thing is their physical life, the physical lives of their family, their community, their nation, their principles, their humanity, their religious beliefs, etc. It's not up to me to tell anyone what they should value and condemn them because they don't value the same things I do. But just remember that when we're severly tested, the truth of who we are will come out. Where is your treasure, Samson?

 

[Caplock50]

2nd Amendment for Dummies

What the bible has to say about self-defense and gun ownership!

Other dummy books have helped millions of intelligent citizens

DOS for Dummies
Windows for Dummies

Accounting for Dummies
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Quotes from the bible



Self-defense of your life & family is common sense from bad guys. Can you? What is your plan at home and on the street? What is your wife’s plan? What is your daughter’s plan? When you see the robber or rapist knife, what words will your speak as the bad guys and you eyes met and wait for 911 police?

DID YOU KNOW??????



Swords, Rocks, Knives, and other self-protection methods as spoken and recorded in the new and old testament.


JESUS SAID IF YOU DON’T HAVE A WEAPON SELL YOU SUIT AND BUY ONE. (Today’s version)

Bible says responsibility and right to defend self, wives, daughters, sons, mothers, fathers, and property against bad guys. Jesus, Luke 22:36 30 He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. The sword was considered the finest weapon of its day. His Holiness Pope John Paul II Evangelism Vitae Encyclical Letter on the Value and Inviolability of Human Life March 25, 1995 46-page statement supports self defense and right to guns

Jesus said to disciples lay “aside” your sword; at last supper not lay down your sword. Peter’s sword was not to protect Jesus life, but to protect his own moral life. St Gabriel Possenti society says priest would be alive today if he had handgun. Priests in Houston want guns to protect parish. Baptist Minister Michael McCubbins clears the air on the bible view of the old/new testament. Bible says you are responsible for your self-defense.

Exodus 22:2-3 If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. Gen. 9: 5-6. When Cain killed Abe, God did not ban or register rocks, but banished the murderer. God was smarter than our gun-grabbing politicians. Matthew 5, Individuals have the responsibility of protecting their lives and family from attackers.

Nowhere in the bible does God make any provision for dealing with the instruments of crime. He always focuses on the consequences for the individual and his actions. Timothy 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever of God. PS 46:1 Jesus who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle.

Num 31:3 Every man gird on his sword, So every man girded on his sword and David also girded on his sword. 1 Sam. 25:13 National defense in bible. 2 Chronicles 17 1:10, and the fear of the Lord fell on all kingdoms around Judah, so that they did not make war. Neh. 4:17-18 Gates and walls of Jerusalem were built with one hand on his weapon, and one hand worked.

Romans 13:4 God says if you do evil be afraid. Also: As you live by the sword so shall you die by the sword. God says in the sixth commandment “Thou shall not murder.” Matthew 26:52-54 Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.


Mayor Daily and State Attorney General need to broaden their horizon or employment opportunities by taking a man from Mars view of the rest of the world. In Illinois, the death clock continues, tally of needless deaths, rapes, assaults 595 murdered, 2145 women raped, 27949 assaulted, because a few politicians, and mayor Daily does not trust its citizens, nor responsible mature men and women who fought in our national wars. Mayor Daily said these same citizens are not responsible to CCW and to defend themselves their homes, their streets, nor their neighborhoods. Crime continues in Chicago city limits, and Washington DC and New York City.
Author Paul Williams If you are unsure about this self-defense issue that is a good sign, it means you are thinking. Come back tomorrow and review again, visit some of the webring sites for more information. www.keepandbeararms.com and many more exist on the webring.
Reprint encouraged with recognition of author. This article was inspired by Jim Grunewald who wrote the article “Bill of Rights for Dummies” Thanks Jim for this great idea. Visit the bills of rights for dummies at http://gunsdontkill.virtualave.net/html/bill_of_rights.html

Four 2nd Amendment for Dummies exist – Christians, felons, media spinsters, and citizens read them all at www.keepandbeararms.com

I don't think I need to say a thing. You've now got what you need to find your answer. Enjoy!

 

[Hansa44]

Psalm 91

 

[Christian for Israel]

scripture says that a man who does not provide for his family is worse than a sinner...that provision includes protection imho.

 

[Mark D]

If they are in need, and you can safely help - Help! Friends are better than enemies.

If they are in Want, and try to Take. FIGHT! Dead enemies are better than starving family.

 

[abbershay]

If you are a christian, you have to be a giver, however you have to take another thing into consideration, as a christian you have the power of multiplacation.

Just like Yeshua (jesus) did with the fishes and loaves.

Jesus said that everything he did we will also be able to do , and even more.


THis means that you can make food go around. There are many thing that you can do right now, getting to know your neihbors now , find out whos christian, tell them about the time that they are living in. taking the spiritual advantagle now by covering your area with prayer. This is more important prep work than any amount of supplies.

 

[Samson]

Samson.....can you get out of the city somehow? Do you have relatives or close friends that could help you re-locate? I know how hard that is to do.......but sometimes we need to take BIG risks. Any 'little' door might be all it takes to push it open and leave. Pray for options and be willing to look at possiblities that you never thought of before.

To answer you question, IMO, it is never wrong for self-defense......but pray that you never have to.

First, I thank everyone for the responses to my question. I have taken to heart much of it.

New Freedom, Me and Mine are currently discussing options. We have a place to go that is about 4 hours drive...Her Fathers place in a small rural town. I just have a problem with abandoning my home and the fact that most of my preps could not fit in our small car, not to mention the 70lb dog. I explained that if we are to go that route we need to start planning now. That would include talking with her dad about it and making a few trips out there to pre-position supplies. Also we need to know when it is time to cut and run. We can not afford to lose our jobs over a false alarm. I also fear being stuck on the highway. I have invested so much to shelter in place, but now I know this Probably not the best choice.

It really sucks to have to think and be stressed by such things, but the way things are going we must.

I hope everyone here will find safety and peace.

Thank you again.

Samson

 

[Garryowen]

Samson,

Could your small car pull a small trailer? Perhaps that could be one solution to your transportation dilemma. I agree that you need to have some kind of arrangement with whomever you would stay with.

We live in the country, and have a standing invitation to our families that if things go bad in the city to come out here and we will make do. Fortunately, in this area we have good neighbors, and I think in an emergency we will all work together to see everyone is taken care of.

If you don't have that kind of neighborhood, maybe it is time to look into moving before times get bad.

Another possibility is to see if you can get some kind of neighborhood activity going. Maybe there are other families feeling just like you, but they haven't said anything. I have read of neighborhoods that were transformed when people started relating to each other. Maybe that's why you are there. That's just off the top of my head, so I'm not necessarily recommending it.

Given the news every day, I would suggest that whatever you decide, don't put it off.

blessings,

Garryowen

 

[Cardinal]

Samson...are you just down the street from me?

Describes my neighborhood to a T. Scripture also calls Christians OUT of a sinful city.
Angels led what's his name out of Sodom (sorry, tired tonight) and I know somewhere Christians are told not to mix with sinners.
So that right there tells us BOTH to get outa Dodge.

I know what you mean about the jobs, we are lookin at an area with no economy to speak of, but sometimes you just gotta obey and trust His providence.

 

[Samson]

scripture says that a man who does not provide for his family is worse than a sinner...that provision includes protection imho.

Just to make things clear. I will protect my family...........TO THE DEATH!

My original question was more hypothetical.

Lets all pray things do not get as ugly as they have the potential to. Also pray
that we can walk with grace no matter what.

 

[lynnie]

Romans 13 says that civil authority is given by God to restrain evil. This would be the cops, the national guard called out, etc. This validates the use of arms by civil authority to restrain evildoers. ( On international levels, also the use of armies to subdue wickedness and help the innocent).

I think we have all seen what will happen.....Rodney King riots, New Orleans. No way the cops will be able to subdue all the evil.

Unless you feel you have mandate from God to be there I would get out now. If things get to the point that rioters are breaking down your door you won't have a job anyway. You can't hold them off with one gun either.

 

[Samson]

Romans 13 says that civil authority is given by God to restrain evil. This would be the cops, the national guard called out, etc. This validates the use of arms by civil authority to restrain evildoers. ( On international levels, also the use of armies to subdue wickedness and help the innocent).

I think we have all seen what will happen.....Rodney King riots, New Orleans. No way the cops will be able to subdue all the evil.

Unless you feel you have mandate from God to be there I would get out now. If things get to the point that rioters are breaking down your door you won't have a job anyway. You can't hold them off with one gun either.

Lynnie, I have lived here for some time and have invested much prepping. The last couple of years things have spiraled downward to the point that my stubborn mind must now consider leaving. It is like starting over. I know my mind is changing because I have prayed for guidance. I do not feel a mandate to stay at this point. This is very hard and I feel time is short. Only one thing can get us through and that is a brave heart that can let material things go. That comes from faith.

As I left work today and was walking down the road in the center of my city. I picked up the free afternoon paper. On the cover was large full page print about a school shooting that happened hours before. As I am reading gunshots erupt half a block from me. Gang banger shootout right downtown during rush Hour. This was the closest yet I have been to a shooting.

My mind is racing now and sleep will not be easy. To much to think about.


The shooting: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06052/658819.stm

 

[Delta]

What really is the difference between starving to death after having given away all your preps than starving to death after having eaten up the last of your preps yourself? Is the name of this game to be the last one to die?

Since you asked this question of Christians, and since I think of myself as one (even though there are those who worry for my soul), I'll say the name of the game is getting to the right destination after I die here. Now, frankly, I don't think giving my preps away qualifies me for heaven. That only comes (in my opinion) through Christ--who forgives our sins that we repent. And, for that matter, giving our preps away may itself be a sin for which we might need forgiveness--if we do that in some vain way for our own glory.

But, when it comes right down to it, there are not very many opportunities when we can really show how Christ makes a difference in our lives. And maybe, just maybe, giving away our preps might be a way to show someone just how different Christians are. There are a number of stories in the Bible about people who shared of their meager preps--and they never ran out. I think it would really be cool to participate in a miricle like that in the end times. But it will only happen if you start to dig into the preps and hand them out.

On the other hand, the idea of a mob of hungry overrunning your digs is an unpleasant picture. I'd rather give them away than have then stollen at gun point.

 

[Samson]

Delta said: "Is the name of this game to be the last one to die?"

I have asked myself this and it is a great question to ask.

What makes it hard is when you have others to care for. If I was by myself this would be easy.

Yes faith! But you must have enough for everyone else also.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Samson

Hold to your faith!

Pray for a solution...our Lord hears all prayers.....

It is Biblical to protect your family...period. to not protect, is a greater sin....

There is a place for you and your family...trust in His direction, His plan.

There is a job for you at a destination of His choice.

The Lord does not do things half way...not at all...

Remember you may well be tested...
Lot lost his wife...Jobe lost all...but both men never lost their Faith.

Hold steadfast to your Faith, and pray for His care in ALL things.

Jonah tried to back away from what The Lord wanted him to do....he finally came

around and thing started to look up for him.

In these times the Lord will surround Himself with His own...and the devil will try to do the same.....so...THAT is one of the best reasons I can think of to constantly pray for His direction...

lw

 

[jazzy]

samson,

i totally believe in what lonewolf posted-iwanted to say the same to you but he was much better.

i would just add this. if something in your gut is worrying at you, it is either the spirit of fear or the Lord giving you a warning. you have to go to Him and ask HIm what you are to do,and ask Him to either remove the feeling if it is not of HIm, or to remove you and your family from the place you are in.


somehow i do not get the sense that you are in fear, so i go out on a limb and say perhaps the Lord is speaking to you.

if so, ask HIm to move you, find you new work and a new place so you can protect your family in the best way. He will open doors for you.

God bless


jazzy

 

[lynnie]

That was really nice delta.....

Something I really like about Jim Rawles at survivalblog is that he keeps saying you must stock up for others as a Christian. It is a biblical mandate to help others. But he says to give at a local shelter or church, not your home, don't let folks know what you have. Tell them you heard there is food at such and such a place. I have a pile for sharing, but I plan to take it to my church.

Samson, my prayers for you tonight. Watched ice skating while folding wash, now to sleep.

We moved in the summer of 2001 from our home of 15 years, five minutes from my parents and 20 minutes from his. Church, friends, everything. From very crowded Philly suburb to semi rural NJ. ( job change, it was the Lord leading).

It took a year to readjust. The older kids would have sworn we were totally destroying their life forever. The move itself was hard. The finances, well, it looked impossible.

God came through for everything, it was amazing. The kids are happy. If he wants you to move he'll work it out. Why not ask for a clear sign from Him for direction. He can do something that makes it clear beynd a doubt where you belong.

God bless.

 

[okie medicvet]

A word of advice..another one..but if you plan on leaving in a truck..put bicycles in the back. That way if you run out of gas or there is an EMP burst, you can still travel.