ENER Germany's Power Grid Faces Collapse As Millions Stock Up On Inefficient Electric Heaters For The Winter

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
"We totally understand why you're scared of freezing to death in your own home, but this really isn't the way to go about fixing the problem! What is? Well...um...let's circle back to that."

Fair use cited so on and so forth. Chart remains because chart and information.


Germany's Power Grid Faces Collapse As Millions Stock Up On Inefficient Electric Heaters For The Winter​


by Tyler Durden
Tuesday, Sep 13, 2022 - 05:45 AM

Maybe they ran out of firewood to buy.

A few weeks after we reported that google searches for "firewood" exploded in Germany, ground zero of what is sure to be a very cold winter...


... the country whose electric grid will be crippled for the foreseeable future after Russia's decision to halt nat gas supplies via the Nord Stream 1 pipeline, is now facing another crisis. According to Reuters, Germans could overload their power grid as they switch to inefficient electric heaters in an attempt to avoid gas shortages this winter, utilities warned in an article published on Sunday.

Fearing the worst, German households have been stocking up on electric fan heaters, including portable devices, sales figures show, amid fears that Russia could cut or further limit gas supplies in the wake of its war in Ukraine.

The managing director of the German association of energy and water utilities, BDEW, told daily Handelsblatt that customers could be left with even heftier power bills if they do not use the devices sparingly.

"And they can overburden the power grids, for instance when many households switch on their fan heaters in one part of town at the same time on a cold winter's night," BDEW director Kerstin Andreae was quoted as saying. She said she understood people's fears of cold homes, but some of the coping mechanisms could backfire.

Germany, along with other European Union countries, is scrambling to support homes and industries burdened by a further surge in energy prices after Russia halted supplies through the Nord Stream 1 natural gas pipeline. Alas, no matter what Europe does, it can't print nat gas, or commodities, which is why Charif Souki, chairman of Tellurian told Bloomberg TV that European buyers will ultimately be paying the equivalent of $120 to $150 per barrel for energy regardless of source for a long time.

Europe will be short on natural gas supplies this winter and over the next several winters, Souki said adding that “In the short term, it’s going to be obscene but I think that if everybody does the right thing, then over time, I think you’re going to find all of the energy prices are going to equalize.”

Pointing out the obvious, Souki said that high prices could result in demand destruction: “We’re short on energy sources in general,” he said. “So at some point, you’re going to find that oil, coal, gas and renewables are going to settle around a certain level and my suspicion is that it’s going to $120 to $150 per barrel equivalent for all of these commodities”

What was left unsaid for obvious reasons, is that "demand destruction" means thousands of people freezing to death.

To be sure, the German government has pledged that industrial users would be the first to be rationed in case of a shortfall and that private households would be spared any cuts, but it remains to be seen just how those with political clout and money will fail to get preferential treatment to millions of German pensioners.

The president of Germany's federal network agency also said local power blackouts could result from peaks in fan heater use, according to a Saturday interview with newspaper Tagesspiegel.

Klaus Mueller added that even amid "very high" gas prices, electric heaters would still cost users more than gas-based central heating, which is the most common form of residential heating in the country.

Germans bought 600,000 electric heating devices during the first half of the year, up almost 35% from a year earlier, according to data by market researcher GfK. The final number will likely be in the millions following the turmoil in Germany's energy market in recent months.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Germans bought 600,000 electric heating devices during the first half of the year, up almost 35% from a year earlier, according to data by market researcher GfK. The final number will likely be in the millions following the turmoil in Germany's energy market in recent months.

The chicoms will have a say in that number.
 

Bps1691

Veteran Member
"We totally understand why you're scared of freezing to death in your own home, but this really isn't the way to go about fixing the problem! What is? Well...um...let's circle back to that."

Fair use cited so on and so forth. Chart remains because chart and information.


Germany's Power Grid Faces Collapse As Millions Stock Up On Inefficient Electric Heaters For The Winter​


by Tyler Durden
Tuesday, Sep 13, 2022 - 05:45 AM

Maybe they ran out of firewood to buy.

A few weeks after we reported that google searches for "firewood" exploded in Germany, ground zero of what is sure to be a very cold winter...


... the country whose electric grid will be crippled for the foreseeable future after Russia's decision to halt nat gas supplies via the Nord Stream 1 pipeline, is now facing another crisis. According to Reuters, Germans could overload their power grid as they switch to inefficient electric heaters in an attempt to avoid gas shortages this winter, utilities warned in an article published on Sunday.

Fearing the worst, German households have been stocking up on electric fan heaters, including portable devices, sales figures show, amid fears that Russia could cut or further limit gas supplies in the wake of its war in Ukraine.

The managing director of the German association of energy and water utilities, BDEW, told daily Handelsblatt that customers could be left with even heftier power bills if they do not use the devices sparingly.

"And they can overburden the power grids, for instance when many households switch on their fan heaters in one part of town at the same time on a cold winter's night," BDEW director Kerstin Andreae was quoted as saying. She said she understood people's fears of cold homes, but some of the coping mechanisms could backfire.

Germany, along with other European Union countries, is scrambling to support homes and industries burdened by a further surge in energy prices after Russia halted supplies through the Nord Stream 1 natural gas pipeline. Alas, no matter what Europe does, it can't print nat gas, or commodities, which is why Charif Souki, chairman of Tellurian told Bloomberg TV that European buyers will ultimately be paying the equivalent of $120 to $150 per barrel for energy regardless of source for a long time.

Europe will be short on natural gas supplies this winter and over the next several winters, Souki said adding that “In the short term, it’s going to be obscene but I think that if everybody does the right thing, then over time, I think you’re going to find all of the energy prices are going to equalize.”

Pointing out the obvious, Souki said that high prices could result in demand destruction: “We’re short on energy sources in general,” he said. “So at some point, you’re going to find that oil, coal, gas and renewables are going to settle around a certain level and my suspicion is that it’s going to $120 to $150 per barrel equivalent for all of these commodities”

What was left unsaid for obvious reasons, is that "demand destruction" means thousands of people freezing to death.

To be sure, the German government has pledged that industrial users would be the first to be rationed in case of a shortfall and that private households would be spared any cuts, but it remains to be seen just how those with political clout and money will fail to get preferential treatment to millions of German pensioners.

The president of Germany's federal network agency also said local power blackouts could result from peaks in fan heater use, according to a Saturday interview with newspaper Tagesspiegel.

Klaus Mueller added that even amid "very high" gas prices, electric heaters would still cost users more than gas-based central heating, which is the most common form of residential heating in the country.

Germans bought 600,000 electric heating devices during the first half of the year, up almost 35% from a year earlier, according to data by market researcher GfK. The final number will likely be in the millions following the turmoil in Germany's energy market in recent months.
Well, an orange hired someone tried to warn them and they laughed and smirked at him in the press, UN, Germany and the demoncrat controlled far left of left media ...

... now they get to see what happens when "feelings" override the facts when it smacks them right in the face

Hope they have a cold winter so they might learn a basic survival lesson

DO NOT DEPEND ON ENIMIES FOR YOUR SURVIVAL!


Here's what the Jeff Bezos's owned far left Washington Post put out at the time:

Trump accused Germany of becoming ‘totally dependent’ on Russian energy at the U.N. The Germans just smirked.​

BERLIN — Out of President Trump’s speech at the U.N. General Assembly on Tuesday, it probably won’t be the script that will be remembered by diplomats but, rather, world leaders' laughter, caught on camera and shared in viral videos.

One of them captured the amused reactions of the German delegation as Trump said: “Germany will become totally dependent on Russian energy if it does not immediately change course. Here in the Western Hemisphere, we are committed to maintaining our independence from the encroachment of expansionist foreign powers.”

German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas could be seen smirking alongside his colleagues.

... more at link above
 

WalknTrot

Veteran Member
Hahahahahaha!
Was wondering when the Euros in general were going to wise up to the fact that electricity production requires energy..mostly fossil fueled. Thanks to their leadership, their fuel lately from Russia. Been laughing at the idiots buying up all the electric heaters. Magical thinking. :rolleyes:

Same deal as with the Californios. Electricity? It comes from the wall socket, doesn't it? Just like milk comes from the store?

Incapable of playing even 2 dimensional checkers. :shk:
 
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ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
Well Germany,
Perhaps NOW you will BEGIN to understand there are consequences for behaviors. Act like Nazis and invade Russia, and THEN want to depend on them to get your necessary energy?? NOT very bright.That was years ago, but look what you have done just last week!! Supplied arms to Russia's enemies....did you REALLY think there would be NO CONSEQUENCES for that???

And my own country.....the USA, will definitely be having consequences too. The world will learn, Russia does NOT forget and, they DON'T forgive either!!

Actually Russia is pretty smart. And RightNow, the remainder of the world "leaders" are all acting totally STUPID!!!!
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
On a related note, members should understand that all electrical resistance heating is inefficient. It's convenient, but wasteful. I confess that we do have some (small) portable electric heaters at the Doc1 Homestead, but primarily heat with wood and propane.

As a matter of fact, I going out to cut and split some more firewood this morning.

Best
Doc
 

Old Greek

Veteran Member
Hahahahahaha!
Was wondering when the Euros in general were going to wise up to the fact that electricity production requires energy..mostly fossil fueled. Thanks to their leadership, their fuel lately from Russia. Been laughing at the idiots buying up all the electric heaters. Magical thinking. :rolleyes:

Same deal as with the Californios. Electricity? It comes from the wall socket, doesn't it? Just like milk comes from the store?

Incapable of playing even 2 dimensional checkers. :shk:
:lkick: Correct, can't fix stupid!
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
members should understand that all electrical resistance heating is inefficient. It's convenient, but wasteful.
Where it shines is in putting small amounts of heat in small zones. I run a little space heater blowing right at me when I'm at my desk, in a small room with door closed. Most of the house can stay uncomfortably cool, because I'm always moving around and doing things. When sitting, I have the little heater.
 

Firebird

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Germany is screwed every which way and sideways. I don't know where they would obtain firewood, imported in from other countries? The forests in Germany are picked clean, they seem to be manicured like a park.
 

Zagdid

Veteran Member
I used the fan heaters this spring to assuage the cost of heating oil. They are inefficient. I installed hard wired electric baseboards (@220VAC) in the spaces left by the hot water baseboards for this coming winter crunch. Seems silly, but freezing seems worse. Good thing about Germany is that everything is at 240VAC. Already better. People will do anything they can to stay warm.
 

Old Greek

Veteran Member
On a related note, members should understand that all electrical resistance heating is inefficient. It's convenient, but wasteful. I confess that we do have some (small) portable electric heaters at the Doc1 Homestead, but primarily heat with wood and propane.

As a matter of fact, I going out to cut and split some more firewood this morning.

Best
D
I was in the process of installing a natural gas/propane fireplace in my remodeled home. Framing finished. I decided (after yours, and many other members talking about wood heat) to change my plans and install a wood burning unit, with all the appropriate chimney units. It has a provision to run a gas line and gas logs if desired. I will install the gas logs and, if needed, be able to remove them and go to wood. This forum is great. Note: there are 5 acres of wood behind the house.
 

Giblin

Veteran Member
In CT I had solar black curtains that gathered the sun heat during the day. Worked great for the area. In SC I have the aluminum foil curtains to block the heat. I also have some solar lights I can bring inside at night.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
Inefficient is a mis-nomer. Electric resistance heaters are 100 percent efficient - 100 percent of the electric energy in becomes heat out. A 1 to 1 advantage.

But they're not "heat pumps" - which have the added benefit of "super-efficiency." 100 percent of the electric energy in to a heat pump becomes 300 percent of the heat out. A 1 to 3 advantage is possible for heat pumps.

That is at "normal" temperatures. If the outside temperature is low - then the super-efficiency drops and instead of a 1 to 3 advantage there might be a 1 to 2 or even less super-efficiency.

Hence heat pumps are usually provided with "back-up" supplemental resistance heating. Which lowers the overall super-efficiency even lower. In severely cold weather you may notice the house runs "cooler" than usual and your meter spinning faster than usual.

But the whole package keeps you warm better than a resistance heater, and costs less overall.

Downside: all reliant upon the electric grid. No grid, no heat.

Dobbin
 
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Dobbin

Faithful Steed
Note: there are 5 acres of wood behind the house.
Owner says that 5 acres is the typical "minimum" wood source area for sustained domestic heating from "drops." A typical house requires 5 acres.

You can gather enough drops from 5 acres to heat indefinitely.

This obviously "wooded" land in the northeast "mixed hardwood" modus. You folks on the plains obviously do different.

It's possible to heat a typical domicile with less acreage - but one has to "manage" the forest and cull where necessary in addition to using the drops.

Owner has about 18 acres in wood - which he manages. He says he keeps about three acres "set aside" for his house - the rest get "managed" for resale.

Dobbin
 

bracketquant

Veteran Member
I was in the process of installing a natural gas/propane fireplace in my remodeled home. Framing finished. I decided (after yours, and many other members talking about wood heat) to change my plans and install a wood burning unit, with all the appropriate chimney units. It has a provision to run a gas line and gas logs if desired. I will install the gas logs and, if needed, be able to remove them and go to wood. This forum is great. Note: there are 5 acres of wood behind the house.
5 acres of currently all green wood?
 

Elza

Veteran Member
then over time, I think you’re going to find all of the energy prices are going to equalize.”
I notice that it isn't stated WHERE the prices will equalize in relation to the current prices. Three times? Four times? Five times?
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
Note to all not just people living in Germany.
Fireplaces are great and today can be used for emergency heating and cooking, but for heating it uses a great deal of firewood like more than twice as much as a wood stove will use and this is way more work than most are ready to put into it or even have to tools to do the job.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Germany is screwed every which way and sideways. I don't know where they would obtain firewood, imported in from other countries? The forests in Germany are picked clean, they seem to be manicured like a park.
I have a German friend with family over there mostly in Bavaria. She says they own woodlands and can cut what they please. Most are not so lucky.
 

Shadow

Swift, Silent,...Sleepy
A great many homes in Germany lack a fireplace or wood stove so I understand the desire for supplemental heat. People turn to what they know and they are familiar with electric appliances.

I wonder about the use of propane. I am not familiar with Germany/Europe and don't know how prevalent the use of portable propane appliances would be. Do they have an equivalent to the 20lb propane tank? would Buddy heaters be useful?

Shadow
 

raven

TB Fanatic
However bad it is, the government WILL make it worse
in order to "encourage" ongoing support
for taking the Russian natural gas.

Unless you think Europe is willing to go for broke because they are looking for a Ukrainian war bride.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Anyone who has incandescent lights would be best off just leaving all the lights on. No worries about wiring and extension cords, etc.
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
If it's never been managed or cut over, there likely is enough standing dead or down ( but not rotted) wood to get through at least one winter. But you're right that you don't want to be out there in January trying to find something that will burn!

Summerthyme


Many people today are lazy in fact so much so they will put it off until they run out of firewood and there is three foot of snow on the ground.
I know there are some reading this and trying to make sense of what I posted, but there are people that cannot go out and cut firewood when they should be doing it months ahead of time, but wait until there no more firewood stacked outside the home and think they can go out whenever they want and cut and collect firewood even if there is a deep snow on the ground and they cannot see where the dead wood on the ground is as it's under the snow.
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
Owner says that 5 acres is the typical "minimum" wood source area for sustained domestic heating from "drops." A typical house requires 5 acres.

You can gather enough drops from 5 acres to heat indefinitely.

This obviously "wooded" land in the northeast "mixed hardwood" modus. You folks on the plains obviously do different.

It's possible to heat a typical domicile with less acreage - but one has to "manage" the forest and cull where necessary in addition to using the drops.

Owner has about 18 acres in wood - which he manages. He says he keeps about three acres "set aside" for his house - the rest get "managed" for resale.

Dobbin
Rue of thumb I was taught was a half cord per acre per year.

Many people today are lazy in fact so much so they will put it off until they run out of firewood and there is three foot of snow on the ground.
I know there are some reading this and trying to make sense of what I posted, but there are people that cannot go out and cut firewood when they should be doing it months ahead of time, but wait until there no more firewood stacked outside the home and think they can go out whenever they want and cut and collect firewood even if there is a deep snow on the ground and they cannot see where the dead wood on the ground is as it's under the snow.

I just take standing dead wood if I run out of evaporator wood in the spring or if we have bonfires for skating.
 

9idrr

Veteran Member
However bad it is, the government WILL make it worse
in order to "encourage" ongoing support
for taking the Russian natural gas.

Unless you think Europe is willing to go for broke because they are looking for a Ukrainian war bride.
So... I should look for Ukrainian war bride to keep me warm this winter?
Now, if'n you'll just explain this theory to my darlin' wife of fifty-some years...
 

Loretta Van Riet

Trying to hang out with the cool kids.
Anyone who has incandescent lights would be best off just leaving all the lights on. No worries about wiring and extension cords, etc.
AND oil lamps throw some heat. Note to self...dig out a 100 watt incandescent bulb to put in tablelamp next to my canary.
 
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