ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread

adgal

Veteran Member

mistaken1

Has No Life - Lives on TB

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
Greg Price
@greg_price11


Pelosi: "When you're home thinking about [what $40 billion to Ukraine] is all about, just think about 'when I was hungry, you fed me' from the Gospel of Matthew."
View: https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1524193428975853568?s=20&t=kcc5yVf5cuHpM0MQ3hd3eg

Nothing as insane as being given instructions on interpreting religious text from the same person who claims to be the champion of children and demands the right to brutally tear unborn children apart for any reason without any legal or moral consequence. :(
 

jward

passin' thru




Samuel Ramani
@SamRamani2

3h

Dmitri Medvedev lashes out at the new US aid package for Ukraine: “It won’t work. The printing press by which America is constantly increasing its already inflated government debt will break faster"

I guess Pelosi is still hungry.
Nothing as insane as being given instructions on interpreting religious text from the same person who claims to be the champion of children and demands the right to brutally tear unborn children apart for any reason without any legal or moral consequence. :(
Who knew modern weapon systems are edible?
How about instead we think of Christ throwing the money-changers out of the temple?
. . . and the lord said, when I was out of ammo, you sent me anti-tank missiles, stingers, howitzers, and half billion rounds of 7.62 . . .
 

jward

passin' thru
I have literally lost track of the $$$ amnt, and never began to stay on top of the aid-in-kind.
..beyond insane..



Thomas Massie
@RepThomasMassie
· 2h
Counting last night’s rushed vote, Congress has now spent more money on Ukraine in six months than we spend on all US roads and bridges in a year. … something to think about the next time you are stuck in traffic or replacing a bent rim.
 

jward

passin' thru
H I Sutton
@CovertShores


***NEW ANALYSIS*** The Curse Of Snake Island... How The Russian Navy Is Losing Dominance. Note the captured #UkrainianNavy boats with the Landing ships in the image With contribution from
@COUPSURE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Russian Navy amphibious warfare ships in Black Sea base
Click to Enlarge. A large part of the Russian Navy's landing ships are now concentrated in Novorossiysk. This is further from the action than Sevastopol, and they are less frequently observed near Snake Island. Also in the port are some Ukrainian Navy vessels captured by Russia in Berdyansk.

How The Russian Navy Is Losing Dominance: The Curse Of Snake Island
One of Russia's first moves in its invasion of Ukraine was the capture of Snake Island. Two months later they are desperately struggling to keep it. This is a sign of their weakening dominance over the Northern Black Sea.
H I Sutton 11 May 2022

The biggest impact of the loss of the cruiser Moskva is that the northern Black Sea is a safer place for Ukrainian aircraft. Particularly for the Ukrainian Navy’s TB2 drones. This tactical loss could have strategic implications.

The focus has become Snake Island, a small rock in the south west corner of Ukraine. It was captured by Russia in the opening hours of the war. Moskva herself played a visible role in the capture.

Now, with the failure of Russia to advance west from Crimea, Snake Island finds itself an isolated outpost. It is the only Russian-held territory west of Crimea. And it is increasingly defenseless.

The High Cost Of A Tiny Rock
Moskva’s role was largely air defense, being a floating double-battery of S300 missiles. In the void left by Moskva, Ukrainian drones have been able to operate effectively against Russian targets. This has had dramatic effects.

Ukraine’s first major move appears to have been to take out the air defenses on the island with a drone strike. A potent SA-15 Tor missile system provided local air defenses, at least in theory. The removal of that system allowed the Ukrainian Navy’s TB2 drones to loiter nearby. The first Russian Navy victims were two Raptor assault boats on May 2.

The Pr.03160 Raptor is modelled on the influential Swedish CB-90 design. It has many uses, including insertion and extraction of special forces. But it has only limited air defenses and even when maneuvering hard, has proven an easy target for the TB2.

On May 7 Russia attempted to land a replacement SA-15 missile system on the island. A TB2 drone caught the Pr.11770 Serna Class landing craft in the act, hitting it as it was about to unload. The attack was devastating and the shipwreck blocked the landing spot.

With the air defenses degraded the Russian garrison was subject to successive air strikes by drones and fighter jets. Soon most of the buildings on the island were reduces to rubble. Russia was still operating Raptors in the area but two more were eliminated by a TB2 on May 8. Along with a helicopter landing troops on the island. The island seems unlivable.

But it isn’t over, Russia appears determined to hold the tiny piece of strategic real-estate. On May 9 another landing craft, a slightly larger Pr.21820 Dyugon class, was observed next to Snake island. We assess that this was likely attempting to deliver yet another SA-15 Tor air defense system.

See You Later, Alligator
Naval News, together with Independent defense analyst Benjamin Pittet, have been observing Russian Navy amphibious forces in the Black Sea. A shift in the patterns of operations can be seen.

Something we haven’t seen operating around Snake Island in recent weeks are the large landing ships. In the first couple of months of the war one or two of Ropucha Class landing ships were frequently observed near the island.

Going back, during the build up to the invasion Russia sent additional landing ships to the Black Sea. These came from the Northern and Baltic fleets, and included Ropucha Class landing ships, the backbone of the force, and a newer Ivan Gren class ship. Smaller landing craft were transferred from the Caspian Sea. There were also signs that more were being sent from the Pacific but these turned around.

More Than Double The Landing Ship Capacity
The influx of landing ships more than doubled the amphibious capability in the Black Sea. Initially the bulk was concentrated on the western side of Crimea, facing Odesa. They were frequently staged of the Crimean coast and performed ‘demonstration’ missions near the Odesa. That expected landing didn’t come, possibly aborted.

In late April, after the Moskva sinking, there was a change in the patterns however. We stopped seeing the Ropucha near Snake Island. While we cannot be certain, with open sources, that they have entirely stopped, all indications are that they have. Instead we have seen Raptor class assault boats and smaller Dyugon and Serna class landing craft used.

The straightforward interpretation is that with Moskva gone, it became too dangerous for them. The Ropuchas do have anti-aircraft guns but they are still juicy targets for Ukrainian missiles and drones. So the landing ships have been concentrated in port. They have still ventured to sea, but in a much more restricted way. The original Black Sea Fleet ones have remained at Sevastopol, and additional ones from other fleets in Novorossiysk.

What Next For The Cursed Isle?
Russia appears determined to keep the island, even at a high cost of troops and equipment. It’s location is strategic. It can provide surveillance, and it prevents Ukraine from benefiting in the same way. And may be important in any peace agreements or end-game territory grabs. And also its defense could become symbolic, in the same way as the Ukrainian hold-out in Mariupol.

It has yet to be seen whether Ukraine will attempt to retake the island. Emotionally there may be a strong motivation to do so. And it could make political and strategic sense.

But if it does the situation could be reversed with Russia free to take pot shots at the Ukrainian garrison. The island is essentially indefensible without effective area air defense. And right now neither side looks like it could achieve that.


6234c731a0350c702aa9ab32463fe28d


Posted by : H I Sutton

H I Sutton writes about the secretive and under-reported submarines, seeking out unusual and interesting vessels and technologies involved in fighting beneath the waves. Submarines, capabilities, naval special forces underwater vehicles and the changing world of underwater warfare and seabed warfare. To do this he combines the latest Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) with the traditional art and science of defense analysis. He occasionally writes non-fiction books on these topics and draws analysis-based illustrations to bring the subject to life. In addition, H I Sutton is a naval history buff and data geek. His personal website about these topics is Covert Shores (www.hisutton.com)



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How The Russian Navy Is Losing Dominance: The Curse Of Snake Island - Naval News
 

raven

TB Fanatic
I have literally lost track of the $$$ amnt, and never began to stay on top of the aid-in-kind.
..beyond insane..



Thomas Massie
@RepThomasMassie
· 2h
Counting last night’s rushed vote, Congress has now spent more money on Ukraine in six months than we spend on all US roads and bridges in a year. … something to think about the next time you are stuck in traffic or replacing a bent rim.
wait until they have to rebuild Ukraine - built back better.
 

Josie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
$40 BILLION in additional aid? What the H-E-double hockey sticks for? There is never an audit for We the People to see to know that our confiscated livelihoods are going to a just cause. There isn't even a freakin' receipt. I get a receipt if I go into a convience store to buy a donut! In about 24 hours, this spending bill was sneaked in and passed!!! This should give EVERY conscious citizen in this country a little pause here. No matter if you want to wave your flag and loudly proclaim your support of a government and country on another continent that we, as a country have no interest in, or you are, as some on this board call a "Putin lover" or you just feel we as a nation need to remain neutral, these expenditures of cash and resources SHOULD be causing you to think and wonder what is really going on here.

WAKE UP!!!!
 
Last edited:

jward

passin' thru




The Intel Hub
@The_IntelHub


For anyone that truly believes Ukraine should take the fight cross the border into Russia: it’s the worst idea ever and I doubt it would ever happen. The 2nd order effects would include the excuse for a mobilization as well as potentially non conventional weapons for area denial.
All of this for no strategic gain. When forces could be used to assist in counter offensives in other Russian controlled areas. I doubt people really think it should happen but I wanted to address it.

Replying to
@The_IntelHub
It is already happening. Ukraine is not going to be looking to occupy large amounts of Russian territory but that doesn't mean respecting Russia's border when looking to cut supply lines. Breaking Russian expectations is a win in itself.
The war will end when the Russian establishment loses confidence Putin can win. The loss of Sevastopol might be enough, otherwise, Ukraine has to encircle the Russian forces in Donbas. That means taking Belgorod and Rostov on Dom.

Replying to
@The_IntelHub
There are 2 reasons to cross the border. 1: Gain a position of strength for peace negotiations. 2: create a defensible no mans land not on your territory to prevent reincursion.

Mike P
@MikeP08557622

3h

3. Create a high-speed axis of advance to use temporarily to flank the enemy's position. (Raid) 4. To interdict the enemy's supply line.

So if this is the case, we now wait and see whether the Ukrainians stay on their side of the old border or go into Russian territory and dig in.
 

jward

passin' thru
UK could give military help to Sweden and Finland under new deal, Boris Johnson says

UK ready to respond with ‘whatever Sweden requests’ in case of attack by Russia, says PM

Andrew Woodcock
Political Editor
1


SEI103380622.jpg

(AFP via Getty Images)

A new UK security agreement with Sweden and Finland could involve Britain providing military assistance if either of the two Nordic countries are attacked, prime minister Boris Johnson has said.
The deal was sealed by the prime minister during a 24-hour visit to the two countries, where fears are growing that Russia’s war in Ukraine could spill over into aggression directed by Moscow at its neighours across the Baltic Sea.

The visit comes days ahead of expected announcements from Stockholm and Helsinki on whether they will drop a decades-old policy of neutrality and apply to join the Nato defensive alliance.

Speaking alongside Swedish PM Magdalena Andersson after talks at her country retreat at Harpsund, Mr Johnson said that the new mutual security assurances signed with her country and with Finland could involve the UK intensifying intelligence-sharing, working together on defence procurement and accelerating joint military training, exercises and deployments.
And he made clear that this could include deploying British military force if either of the countries came under attack.
Recommended
“If Sweden were attacked and looked to us for help and support then we would provide it. It would be up to Sweden to make the request and spell out exactly what support is requested,” said Mr Johnson.

Asked if this could include committing UK troops and equipment to military action if the countries face Russian assault during the interim period before Nato membership is agreed, he replied: “What we are saying emphatically is in the event of an attack upon Sweden then the UK would come to the assistance of Sweden with whatever Sweden requested,”
The agreement effectively provides Sweden and Finland with similar guarantees from the UK to the Article 5 guarantee offered to all Nato member states of mutual assistance if any of them come under attack.
The pact with Stockholm states: “Should either country suffer a disaster or attack, the United Kingdom and Sweden will, upon request from the affected country, assist each other in a variety of ways, which may include military means.”

It will raise concerns that the UK could come into direct military conflict with Russia if president Vladimir Putin decides to unleash violence against them.

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov today said that Russia is “closely watching” anything that might affect Nato’s configuration on its borders.
Mr Johnson has said the UK will support Sweden if it decides to apply for Nato membership.
“I am sure the UK will support whatever course of action Sweden decides to embark upon,” he said.
Ms Andersson said that “of course” Sweden was safer as a result of today’s agreements, which followed similar discussions with allies inlcuding Germany and the US her country’s position during the “grey period” between applying for Nato membership and joining.
“We are exploring all possible options and Nato is one of them that is on the table,” she said.
“We have had discussions with several countries how they see this ‘grey period’ until we are fully members.
“We have got reassurances from several countries. I am here with Boris Johnson today, I had a press conference with (German Chancellor) Olaf Scholz last week, I also had our foreign minister in Washington last week.


 

danielboon

TB Fanatic
$40 BILLION in additional aid? What the H-E-double hockey sticks for? There is never an audit for We the People to see to know that our confiscated livelihoods are going to a just cause. There isn't even a freakin' receipt. I get a receipt if I go into a convience store to buy a donut! In about 24 hours, this spending bill was sneaked in and passed!!! This should give EVERY conscious citizen in this country a little pause here. No matter if you want to wave your flag and loudly proclaim your support of a government and country on another continent that we, as a country have no interest in, or you are, as some on this board call a "Putin lover" or you just feel we as a nation need to remain neutral, these expenditures of cash and resources SHOULD be causing you to think and wonder what is really going on here.

WAKE UP!!!!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ehETntF6QI
 

Zagdid

Veteran Member

Ukraine Lost 4 Warplanes, 10 Choppers, and Over 30 UAVs in Attempt to Seize Snake Island - MoD
Yesterday (Updated: 23 hours ago)

Ukraine's losses include one Su-27 fighter aircraft, three Su-24 attack jets, several Mi-24 attack helicopters and Mi-8 transport helicopters, and three Centaur fast assault craft, as well as at least 30 military UAVs.

Ukraine's recent attempts to capture Ostrov Zmeiny, or Snake Island, have cost the country numerous of its combat aircraft and military helicopters, Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.

Describing Ukraine's attempts to seize the island as "pointless from the military standpoint", Konashenkov said that Ukrainian forces lost three Su-24 attack aircraft and one Su-27 fighter jet, as well as 10 military helicopters.

Four of the helicopters - one Mi-24 attack helicopter and three Mi-8 transport helicopters that were ferrying troops who were supposed to land on the island - were shot down, while another six Mi-8 and Mi-24 helicopters that were involved in the operation were destroyed on the ground in the vicinity of Artsyz in Odessa oblast, Konashenkov said.

He also added that three Ukrainian Centaur fast assault craft that were carrying landing troops were destroyed at sea, and that Ukraine lost at least 30 military UAVs in the area.

Meanwhile, a source in the Russian Ministry of Defence told Sputnik that the attack on Snake Island was authorised by Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky himself who sought to get a "media" result by 9 May, and that the Ukrainian General Staff was against it.

The source also claimed that the idea to attack the island was suggested to Zelensky by "his British advisers", and that this effort was supposed to culminate in a joint statement delivered by the Ukrainian president and UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who would've lauded it as a "victory".

Instead, the source remarked, on 9 May Johnson delivered a statement all by himself and made no mention of the disaster that the landing operation on Snake Island turned out to be.
 

WTSR

Veteran Member
H I Sutton
@CovertShores


***NEW ANALYSIS*** The Curse Of Snake Island... How The Russian Navy Is Losing Dominance. Note the captured #UkrainianNavy boats with the Landing ships in the image With contribution from
@COUPSURE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Russian Navy amphibious warfare ships in Black Sea base
Click to Enlarge. A large part of the Russian Navy's landing ships are now concentrated in Novorossiysk. This is further from the action than Sevastopol, and they are less frequently observed near Snake Island. Also in the port are some Ukrainian Navy vessels captured by Russia in Berdyansk.

How The Russian Navy Is Losing Dominance: The Curse Of Snake Island
One of Russia's first moves in its invasion of Ukraine was the capture of Snake Island. Two months later they are desperately struggling to keep it. This is a sign of their weakening dominance over the Northern Black Sea.
H I Sutton 11 May 2022

The biggest impact of the loss of the cruiser Moskva is that the northern Black Sea is a safer place for Ukrainian aircraft. Particularly for the Ukrainian Navy’s TB2 drones. This tactical loss could have strategic implications.

The focus has become Snake Island, a small rock in the south west corner of Ukraine. It was captured by Russia in the opening hours of the war. Moskva herself played a visible role in the capture.

Now, with the failure of Russia to advance west from Crimea, Snake Island finds itself an isolated outpost. It is the only Russian-held territory west of Crimea. And it is increasingly defenseless.

The High Cost Of A Tiny Rock
Moskva’s role was largely air defense, being a floating double-battery of S300 missiles. In the void left by Moskva, Ukrainian drones have been able to operate effectively against Russian targets. This has had dramatic effects.

Ukraine’s first major move appears to have been to take out the air defenses on the island with a drone strike. A potent SA-15 Tor missile system provided local air defenses, at least in theory. The removal of that system allowed the Ukrainian Navy’s TB2 drones to loiter nearby. The first Russian Navy victims were two Raptor assault boats on May 2.

The Pr.03160 Raptor is modelled on the influential Swedish CB-90 design. It has many uses, including insertion and extraction of special forces. But it has only limited air defenses and even when maneuvering hard, has proven an easy target for the TB2.

On May 7 Russia attempted to land a replacement SA-15 missile system on the island. A TB2 drone caught the Pr.11770 Serna Class landing craft in the act, hitting it as it was about to unload. The attack was devastating and the shipwreck blocked the landing spot.

With the air defenses degraded the Russian garrison was subject to successive air strikes by drones and fighter jets. Soon most of the buildings on the island were reduces to rubble. Russia was still operating Raptors in the area but two more were eliminated by a TB2 on May 8. Along with a helicopter landing troops on the island. The island seems unlivable.

But it isn’t over, Russia appears determined to hold the tiny piece of strategic real-estate. On May 9 another landing craft, a slightly larger Pr.21820 Dyugon class, was observed next to Snake island. We assess that this was likely attempting to deliver yet another SA-15 Tor air defense system.

See You Later, Alligator
Naval News, together with Independent defense analyst Benjamin Pittet, have been observing Russian Navy amphibious forces in the Black Sea. A shift in the patterns of operations can be seen.

Something we haven’t seen operating around Snake Island in recent weeks are the large landing ships. In the first couple of months of the war one or two of Ropucha Class landing ships were frequently observed near the island.

Going back, during the build up to the invasion Russia sent additional landing ships to the Black Sea. These came from the Northern and Baltic fleets, and included Ropucha Class landing ships, the backbone of the force, and a newer Ivan Gren class ship. Smaller landing craft were transferred from the Caspian Sea. There were also signs that more were being sent from the Pacific but these turned around.

More Than Double The Landing Ship Capacity
The influx of landing ships more than doubled the amphibious capability in the Black Sea. Initially the bulk was concentrated on the western side of Crimea, facing Odesa. They were frequently staged of the Crimean coast and performed ‘demonstration’ missions near the Odesa. That expected landing didn’t come, possibly aborted.

In late April, after the Moskva sinking, there was a change in the patterns however. We stopped seeing the Ropucha near Snake Island. While we cannot be certain, with open sources, that they have entirely stopped, all indications are that they have. Instead we have seen Raptor class assault boats and smaller Dyugon and Serna class landing craft used.

The straightforward interpretation is that with Moskva gone, it became too dangerous for them. The Ropuchas do have anti-aircraft guns but they are still juicy targets for Ukrainian missiles and drones. So the landing ships have been concentrated in port. They have still ventured to sea, but in a much more restricted way. The original Black Sea Fleet ones have remained at Sevastopol, and additional ones from other fleets in Novorossiysk.

What Next For The Cursed Isle?
Russia appears determined to keep the island, even at a high cost of troops and equipment. It’s location is strategic. It can provide surveillance, and it prevents Ukraine from benefiting in the same way. And may be important in any peace agreements or end-game territory grabs. And also its defense could become symbolic, in the same way as the Ukrainian hold-out in Mariupol.

It has yet to be seen whether Ukraine will attempt to retake the island. Emotionally there may be a strong motivation to do so. And it could make political and strategic sense.

But if it does the situation could be reversed with Russia free to take pot shots at the Ukrainian garrison. The island is essentially indefensible without effective area air defense. And right now neither side looks like it could achieve that.


6234c731a0350c702aa9ab32463fe28d


Posted by : H I Sutton

H I Sutton writes about the secretive and under-reported submarines, seeking out unusual and interesting vessels and technologies involved in fighting beneath the waves. Submarines, capabilities, naval special forces underwater vehicles and the changing world of underwater warfare and seabed warfare. To do this he combines the latest Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) with the traditional art and science of defense analysis. He occasionally writes non-fiction books on these topics and draws analysis-based illustrations to bring the subject to life. In addition, H I Sutton is a naval history buff and data geek. His personal website about these topics is Covert Shores (www.hisutton.com)



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Russian Serna-class LCU becomes the new victim of TB2 Drone
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Russian Navy’s 5 Significant Losses In The Ukraine War So Far
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The Russian Navy, on paper one of the most powerful on the planet, has lost ...

Watch Ukrainian TB2 Striking Two Russian Raptor Assault Boats
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How The Russian Navy Is Losing Dominance: The Curse Of Snake Island - Naval News

This is the complete opposite that is being reported from the Russian point of view, btw.

I read this morning that American and British officers were among the people killed or left on Snake Island in the recent engagement.

Probably though it would appear the the Island is now a No-Mans Land.
 
Last edited:

WTSR

Veteran Member
Well duh...

Yeah I guess so.. silly me. What I meant is that it is being reported by Russians that the that (Supposed Russian) losses being posted by Ukrainian are in fact Ukrainian loses, I guess it's rather complicated now. In the most recent skirmish... :dhr:
 
Last edited:

inskanoot

Veteran Member
$40 BILLION in additional aid? What the H-E-double hockey sticks for? There is never an audit for We the People to see to know that our confiscated livelihoods are going to a just cause. There isn't even a freakin' receipt. I get a receipt if I go into a convience store to buy a donut! In about 24 hours, this spending bill was sneaked in and passed!!! This should give EVERY conscious citizen in this country a little pause here. No matter if you want to wave your flag and loudly proclaim your support of a government and country on another continent that we, as a country have no interest in, or you are, as some on this board call a "Putin lover" or you just feel we as a nation need to remain neutral, these expenditures of cash and resources SHOULD be causing you to think and wonder what is really going on here.

WAKE UP!!!!
Yes, this is what Catherine Austin Fitts and Prof. Skidmore keep reminding us. The Govt is creating and keeping debts and hiding and giving away assets.
 

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
Russian forces sustained remarkable losses from the failed bridging attempt over the Siverskyi Donets River. We count 6x T-72B-series MBT, 14x BMP-1/2 variants, 7x MT-LB, a tugboat & 5+ other armoured vehicles destroyed/abandoned/damaged. Note precise ID is very hard.

View: https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1524413089579511808

So many questions ...... and such empty propaganda ...... as is being done by both sides. The only result that means anything is the end result of the conflict, and not the dance moves before then.

Just a few questions..... (could only be possibly answered by whom ever took the pictures):
  • Why is this "remarkable losses"? Opposed river crossings are very difficult even when being done under fully prepared conditions with the proper forces. Are the losses that much more than historically seen in similar battles?
  • What was the date of this incident, and for how long?
  • What was the size of the opposing forces?
  • What was the ratio of lost personnel and equipment to what they began with, for both sides.
  • What was the result? Stalemate? Territorial advance by one side?
  • Was this picture at the beginning, middle, or end of this full battle?
  • How do we know those are actually Russian vehicles, and even from the same event? I would be surprised if there is not some "positioning" being done to prepare for pictures in this conflict. That was already being done with the causality pictures taken at Gettysburg in 1863.
 

vector7

Dot Collector

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
Just add the Chinese headline FOR REAL to what Russia is doing in the ukraine and you see the new reality for war.
Losing 35 vehicles in and opposed river crossing is NOTHING Look at WW 2 or Korea or Vietnam and look at real combat casualties.
This ukie obsession about prancing around every time they blow up Russians is meaningless.
I noticed the ukies have shut up about the near total military collapse in donbas and lugash. This is the key to victory and all this drivel about khartov and kjev never meant anything. Zippy just got his remnant air power destroyed at snake island.
The final collapse in the east by Memorial Day.
 

homepark

Resist
Imagine if Russia and the EU countries could get along. Russia has vast reserves of energy resources. Europe still has an economic and manufacturing base to supply the world. I think I understand Russia's sensitivity over its western border, but really? Who in the EU could administer Russia? NATO does not have the military resources to take over Russia. There is something else going on. Something this irrational must have a story somewhere. I know, follow the money, and who stands to gain with a major conflagration starting in Europe?
 
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