BRKG Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore has collapsed

CTFIREBATTCHIEF

Veteran Member
Yeah I didn't hear anything about THAT bridge being closed this morning on the local TV/radio news. And I'm sure it would have been highlighted due to the current "sensitivities". We did have a rain band come through early this AM, but it wasn't windy at all where I was.

Side note - my commute home doubled, from 30 mins to 1 hour. "Most" people were actually somewhat polite on the roads yesterday afternoon. Hopefully that will last.

It is weird looking in the direction of the bridge and not seeing anything. I'm not "from" the area but I've lived here a long time and I get it when people get interviewed and almost get emotional about it. It would be like if there is a mountain near you, you see it a hundred times a day, and then one day it just disappears. You do a double-take, then a triple-take, because it "should" be there but isn't. Very disorienting. I must have seen 100+ people yesterday evening on my way home, anywhere there was a little hill or overpass, normally with a view of the bridge, standing there taking pictures/video, with their kids, grandmas, etc. I don't think most people can grasp how emotional people are over this.
I get that feeling, believe me. Those of us who live in the NYC area felt the same way when the towers came down. I still find myself looking for them when I am driving down the New Jersey Turnpike, even after all of these years. They were the first part of NYC that you would see from New Jersey,coming back up from the south, somewhere around the 91 mile marker. One world Trade center is there, but it's not the same. Yes the emotions are strong. and they will be for a long time to come.
 

Betty_Rose

Veteran Member
Portsmouth Virginia is (was?) the home of the largest naval shipbuilding facility in the US (The Norfolk Naval Shipyard). You can walk along the shores in that area at any given time and see lots of large naval vessels in that harbor.

We were always told that this area utilized tunnels (instead of bridges) so that an enemy couldn't bomb a bridge and block a harbor. Tunnels cost a lot more than bridges to build, but the tunnels keep the waterways open. Drawbridges are far more problematic.

Having seen the photos of this bridge collapse, that single point is easy to see now.
 

Betty_Rose

Veteran Member
The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel does close at times due to high winds and traffic accidents. As a former resident of that area, that bridge (23 miles long) is one of the most amazing man-made structures I've ever seen. If anything happened to it, it's hard to imagine that it could be rebuilt in under 10 years.
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic
From my email inbox Bloomberg Evening Briefing March 26 2024

Biden said on Tuesday that the Army Corps of Engineers will lead the effort to clear the channel port of Baltimore following the collapse of the Francis Scott Key bridge. A container ship that apparently lost power hit the structure overnight in an incident officials have so far deemed an accident. The bridge allows commercial ships to enter the Port of Baltimore, one of the top ports in the US in terms of volume and value of cargoes. “It’s my intention that federal government will pay for the entire cost of reconstructing that bridge,” Biden said in a news conference. “I expect the Congress to support my effort.”


Parts of the Francis Scott Key Bridge rest on a container ship in Baltimore harbor after the vessel hit the structure. Photographer: Jim Lo Scalzo/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic
From my email inbox Bloomberg Washington Edition Briefing March 26 2024

Ripple Effect

While the immediate focus is squarely on the search for at least six construction workers missing after the collapse of a major commuter bridge in Baltimore that was struck by a container ship, the catastrophe is also another reminder of the fragility of American infrastructure and the nation’s supply chains.

That was the initial takeaway by economists as they assess the fallout from the closure of one of the top ports in the US in terms of volume and value of cargoes. It is also the largest US port for handling cars and light trucks.

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Wreckage of the Francis Scott Key Bridge on top of a container ship. Photographer: Roberto Schmidt/AFP/Getty Images
The Baltimore region will see the biggest economic impact, but analysts don’t see a major hit to the national economy either through higher prices or significantly disrupted activity due to the bridge and port closure.

That’s mostly because of the potential to divert trade and shipping to alternative ports around the US.

“I would anticipate the macroeconomic consequences to be limited,” though it warrants close monitoring, said Gregory Daco, chief economist at EY.

The broader issue is the condition and suitability of key infrastructure that was built decades ago — the Francis Scott Key Bridge opened in 1977 — and its ability to handle the strains of the modern economy. It’s not too long ago that the Covid pandemic buckled the world’s supply chains and left supermarket shelves bare as ships and trucks were backed up at ports and other key arteries.

There’s a political dimension here too: renovating and re-building aging infrastructure such as ports, roads and bridges is central to the $1.2 trillion Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act pushed through Congress by President Joe Biden in 2021.

Biden today quickly promised full federal funding to rebuild the bridge, though that will take cooperation from Congress.

With the economy so dependent on global supply lines, it’s little wonder why. — Enda Curran
 

Slydersan

Veteran Member
I get that feeling, believe me. Those of us who live in the NYC area felt the same way when the towers came down. I still find myself looking for them when I am driving down the New Jersey Turnpike, even after all of these years. They were the first part of NYC that you would see from New Jersey,coming back up from the south, somewhere around the 91 mile marker. One world Trade center is there, but it's not the same. Yes the emotions are strong. and they will be for a long time to come.

I initially was going to make that comparison, but decided against it. I have never been there, but yeah I imagine it was similar, heck probably stronger because of the loss of life.
 

WalknTrot

Veteran Member
The part that gets me is when I sit and think about all the ways that the pier could have been protected enough to prevent this. The forces were not too great. The evidence for that is right there in front of us. That pier actually did stop the ship. Even another pier 30 feet in front of it would have stopped the ship before it hit the critical one.
I watched a bit of "local" news coming out of Duluth MN last night, and they had an engineer on, talking about this very concept as it pertains to one of Duluth/Superior's similar interstate bridges. Showed the "fenders" surrounding the bridge pillars over the Duluth harbor/river channel. The channel under this bridge handles 1000 foot lakers hauling iron ore, coal, cement, etc. along with good sized ocean going "salties". The guy said if the ship had hit them like it did the Baltimore bridge, it probably still wouldn't have prevented collapse.

Here's a link (below) to the page with the video. It's imbedded in such a way that I can't really bring it over. Runtime: 2:39.

Engineer speaks on Baltimore Bridge collapse, Blatnik Bridge similarities
 

CTFIREBATTCHIEF

Veteran Member
I've done a little poking around as to just how important this port is. Having Baltimore shut down is going to leave a mark, from coal exporting to auto delivery to container shipping. The main channel, the fort McHenry channel is 50 feet deep, so they can take just about any size ship including the biggest container vessels such as the one that took out the Key bridge. Once they recover the bodies of those who were killed, it's going to be an all hands on deck effort to get that wreckage cleared and the channel back open. At least it needs to be.

Lessons learned from this. in my humble opinion.

Every bridge structure that crosses a waterway as busy as this one is, needs to have their bridge pier protection checked and beefed up pronto if necessary. The Francis Scott Key bridge opened in 1977 when these huge container ships were only beginning to come online. I've no idea if the fender system was upgraded, but it should have been with the passage of 1000 footers of over 120 thousand tons size being routine in and out of Baltimore. I took a quick look at the bay bridge between Annapolis and the eastern MD shore and it looks like that bridge hasn't much of a fender system either (and the pucker factor going over THAT spindly thing is truly epic)

Ships over a certain size should have tugs attending their movements passing chokepoints like this. Not necessarily tied on to the ship, but close by and ready to respond to a maneuvering emergency. As many have said here before, if power to the propulsion system on a ship like this fails, she becomes nothing more than a 1000 foot floating, wind driven battering ram.

work crews on these bridges , should have a radio watch in place monitoring the maritime radio frequencies as well as instant contact with local authorities. From the police radio traffic that was released, there was thought given to the crew working up there, but the conversation was about being able to send a police unit up to them to warn them, once another police unit arrived to hold traffic. There should have been a way to contact them by radio, instantly.

On another aside. that maryland governor looks like and sounds like he's on crack when he's interviewed. If there was any more backslapping going on during the press conferences, I'd be worried about an earthquake happening.
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
Portsmouth Virginia is (was?) the home of the largest naval shipbuilding facility in the US (The Norfolk Naval Shipyard). You can walk along the shores in that area at any given time and see lots of large naval vessels in that harbor.

We were always told that this area utilized tunnels (instead of bridges) so that an enemy couldn't bomb a bridge and block a harbor. Tunnels cost a lot more than bridges to build, but the tunnels keep the waterways open. Drawbridges are far more problematic.

Having seen the photos of this bridge collapse, that single point is easy to see now.
Naval Station Norfolk is the worlds largest Navy base. You have both Norfolk Naval Shipyard (federal) and Newport News (private). Newport News is the only builder of US aircraft carriers and one of 2 that builds US submarines.

I have also been told that the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel was constructed specifically to prevent blockage of the port. Makes sense.
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic
From my email inbox Bloomberg Supply Lines March 26 2024

Baltimore Bridge Collapse

The US economy has withstood a series of supply chain shocks over the past five years, none more sudden and visibly dramatic than the container ship that slammed early Tuesday into Baltimore’s Francis Scott Key Bridge, sending large spans of the nearly 50-year-old steel structure tumbling into the river below.

First and foremost, the disaster might have human consequences, with rescuers as of Tuesday afternoon still searching the water for anyone missing.

Next will come months of soul-searching for answers to the bigger questions for politicians, industry executives and engineers. How did the bridge give way so easily? Who’s going to pay for the damage and how long will the fix take? Where was the backup steering system, the tugs to assist in exactly this kind of a late-night emergency, or the protective safety barriers around the support columns? Are the big ships of today too big to maneuver safely in old American seaports?

In the meantime, here’s what we know about the immediate economic fallout:

Baltimore isn’t a huge port for containers — about 3% of the total on the East and Gulf Coasts — but it handles the nation’s largest volume of automobiles, as well as a lot less-consumer-facing items like coal, gypsum and lumber. With total trade last year amounting to about $80 billion, every day Baltimore is closed is another $217 million that’s not crossing its docks.

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Car companies like Ford and GM aren’t wasting time finding other routes for parts and vehicles. But the options may involve costlier transportation and longer shipping times: The nation’s No. 2 port for car carriers is in Brunswick, Georgia — about 700 miles south.

Farmers gearing up for planting season may also feel the impact. According to Dean Croke, principal industry analyst at DAT Freight & Analytics, Baltimore’s proximity to the Midwest’s major farm and construction equipment manufacturers “has helped it become the leading U.S. port for importing combines, tractors, hay balers, excavators, and backhoes.”

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Watch for a change in the directional flow of goods. Flexport CEO Ryan Petersen said importers will likely want to send their cargoes through West Coast ports and move them on trains eastward to avoid any bottlenecks at East Coast ports. Many were doing so already to avoid potential disruptions involving East Coast dockworkers in contract negotiations this year.

Extensive Delays

Chris Rogers, head of supply chain research at S&P Global Market Intelligence, said “bridge reconstruction and cargo delays are likely to be extensive,” though the diversions should help soften the economic blow.

Bethann Rooney, port director of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, said that her facility is “proactively working with our industry partners to respond as needed and ensure supply chain continuity along the East Coast.”

While the bridge collapse will have a limited impact on the broader economy, it “is just another reminder of the vulnerability of the nation’s infrastructure and supply chains,” said Moody’s Analytics Chief Economist Mark Zandi.

Brendan Murray in London
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
I've done a little poking around as to just how important this port is. Having Baltimore shut down is going to leave a mark, from coal exporting to auto delivery to container shipping. The main channel, the fort McHenry channel is 50 feet deep, so they can take just about any size ship including the biggest container vessels such as the one that took out the Key bridge. Once they recover the bodies of those who were killed, it's going to be an all hands on deck effort to get that wreckage cleared and the channel back open. At least it needs to be.

Lessons learned from this. in my humble opinion.

Every bridge structure that crosses a waterway as busy as this one is, needs to have their bridge pier protection checked and beefed up pronto if necessary. The Francis Scott Key bridge opened in 1977 when these huge container ships were only beginning to come online. I've no idea if the fender system was upgraded, but it should have been with the passage of 1000 footers of over 120 thousand tons size being routine in and out of Baltimore. I took a quick look at the bay bridge between Annapolis and the eastern MD shore and it looks like that bridge hasn't much of a fender system either (and the pucker factor going over THAT spindly thing is truly epic)

Ships over a certain size should have tugs attending their movements passing chokepoints like this. Not necessarily tied on to the ship, but close by and ready to respond to a maneuvering emergency. As many have said here before, if power to the propulsion system on a ship like this fails, she becomes nothing more than a 1000 foot floating, wind driven battering ram.

work crews on these bridges , should have a radio watch in place monitoring the maritime radio frequencies as well as instant contact with local authorities. From the police radio traffic that was released, there was thought given to the crew working up there, but the conversation was about being able to send a police unit up to them to warn them, once another police unit arrived to hold traffic. There should have been a way to contact them by radio, instantly.

On another aside. that maryland governor looks like and sounds like he's on crack when he's interviewed. If there was any more backslapping going on during the press conferences, I'd be worried about an earthquake happening.
I have been out of the port ops world for about 15 years ago but even back then there were contracts set up with salvage companies to respond in events like this. Basically they would stop whatever they were doing and would head to the site to start clearing and getting the channel open. Some of the plans included where the material would be dumped etc. Idea was get the channel open and then worry about the rest. It is a matter of national security. I would hope that this is still true today.

Tugs are required on certain hazardous cargo. Tankers are required to be set up with towing bridles on both the bow and stern that can be quickly hooked up to try to stop or pull them. I have ridden tugs when they do this training and it is amazing to see what they can do but I am not sure tugs would have been able to much in this instance. There just wasnt enough time. Not a tug guy or a deckie so I may just be talking out my backside but I suspect the only way a tug would have made a difference was if it was standing by right on that starboard bow and and able to push the ship thru the channel but that may not be realistic. Capt Eddie can probably talk to that better.
 

ktrapper

Veteran Member
My buddy said they are stuck in harbor for the foreseeable future. Their Tug was in harbor when it happened. They are breaking out the paint chippers and paint brushes today. He has a month left on that Tug then transferring up here to the North Slope as a vessel captain in the summers, PM mechanic rest of the year. Sounds like he's leaving that Tug just time.
 

inskanoot

Veteran Member
I watched a bit of "local" news coming out of Duluth MN last night, and they had an engineer on, talking about this very concept as it pertains to one of Duluth/Superior's similar interstate bridges. Showed the "fenders" surrounding the bridge pillars over the Duluth harbor/river channel. The channel under this bridge handles 1000 foot lakers hauling iron ore, coal, cement, etc. along with good sized ocean going "salties". The guy said if the ship had hit them like it did the Baltimore bridge, it probably still wouldn't have prevented collapse.

Here's a link (below) to the page with the video. It's imbedded in such a way that I can't really bring it over. Runtime: 2:39.

Engineer speaks on Baltimore Bridge collapse, Blatnik Bridge similarities

Engineer speaks on Baltimore Bridge collapse, Blatnik Bridge similarities​

Jack WiednerPublished: Mar. 26, 2024 at 5:18 PM CDT
DULUTH, Minn. (Northern News Now)- A federal investigation is underway following the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse in Baltimore, Md.

The bridge went down after a cargo ship collided with it in the early hours of Tuesday morning.

According to the National Transportation Safety Board, their work is currently focused on search and rescue. Moving forward, they’ll look at what went wrong on the cargo ship, and also, if the bridge was structurally sound.

“Part of our investigation will be, how is this bridge constructed? It will look at the structure itself,” NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy said in a press conference Tuesday.

For some Northlanders, the incident begs a question: Could a similar event happen in the Twin Ports?

UMD Professor Brock Hedegaard specializes in structural engineering. According to Hedegaard, the Blatinik Bridge is structurally similar to the Francis Scott Key. Both are steel arch bridges designed to span major shipping routes.

While the Blatnik is older, it also has one feature its Baltimore counterpart lacked: sizeable fenders.

Fenders are structures surrounding a bridge’s support pillars, designed to be a line of defense against rogue ships. The Blatnik Bridge has concrete pylons to serve this purpose.

The Francis Scott Key lacked these structures, meaning there was nothing to absorb the hit other than the bridge itself.

Hedegarrd added that with a high-speed, head-on collision, it is unlikely fenders would have prevented what happened in Baltimore.

However, Hedegaard said newer bridges are designed to handle accidents differently. “Modern design practices are hopefully going to be better at dealing with that, he said. “They’re trying to get away from what a lot of these old bridges followed, what’s called a fractured critical design.”

Both the Blatnik and the Francis Scott Key were designed in a way that leads to the entire bridge failing in major crashes. Modern bridges are more likely to fail in one section, but not entirely.

With Blatnik Bridge reconstruction on the way, a new bridge will likely be even better equipped for a crash like the one in Baltimore.

MnDOT released the following statement regarding the Francis Scott Key collapse:

Our thoughts are first and foremost with all those who have been injured or are still missing as a result of this morning’s tragedy in Baltimore and to the brave first responders on the scene. MnDOT has offered support and any assistance needed to the Maryland DOT and will be lighting the 35W bridge tonight the colors of the Maryland state flag.

In partnership with local and federal partners, we have comprehensive emergency plans should a bridge sustain a hit and require rescue operations. For bridges over bodies of water in Minnesota, we put safety measures in place to both prevent any direct hit to the bridge and to mitigate any risk to the structure through our design should it sustain a collision.

A key component of ensuring safety is being able to update aging infrastructure. We are thankful to our state and federal partners for their recent investment in transportation infrastructure – including U.S. DOT’s recent $1 billion investment in the Blatnik Bridge.


WisDOT Public Affairs also released a statement:

Our thoughts are with those involved in the bridge incident in Baltimore. Safety is our top priority at WisDOT. We work to ensure all of the more than 14,000 bridges in Wisconsin are designed and inspected with safe travel in mind. WisDOT’s Bureau of Structures has a comprehensive bridge design, construction, inspection, and bridge management program. Bridge designs conform to national standards and accommodate anticipated vessel travel in the area. WisDOT’s rigorous inspection program allows for routine inspections to assess the condition of bridges throughout the state and ensure each structure is safe for the traveling public.

Click here to download the Northern News Now app or our Northern News Now First Alert weather app.

Copyright 2024 Northern News Now. All rights reserved.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Exactly.
Why should we pay?
Lloyd's of London or Geico or the Pope's insurer I care not.

Not the taxpayer...
2nd to that while hating the catastrophe, in all it scope, I don't think I will ever cross the rebuilt bridge, so why should I in MS pay federal taxes to rebuilt a bridge in Mary Land.

I guess the same thing could be said about the bridge in Memphis, if it got FEDERAL funds to fix.

What am I saying????? No one will pay taxes to rebuild. Just print more money. Put a little more grease in the wheel there Joe.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I suspect the price of building such a bridge is beyond the ability of any insurance company or shipping company to cover it. On the other hand, demanding they pay a share of the rebuilding costs would seem fair, provided they are found to be at fault.

If it is a big if, the speculation on Sky News that has experts looking at fuel contamination as a possible reason for the crash turns out to be correct, then it gets even more complicated. Was the contamination intentional (terrorism) due to mechanical failure at the fueling area or bad work practices?

Even if the generators are going out, it doesn't look like any blame can be placed on the captain, though the shipping company might be liable.

Meanwhile, there must be a bridge for the port to function. I suspect that as crucial as that port is, it would be a REAL (not made up) national security issue to keep the port functional (or restore it to function as soon as possible). I see no other way to do that in the short term without using Federal funding. Perhaps some of that can be clawed back later when the legal dust settles, but that port and US shipping can't wait ten years until all the cases are sorted to start rebuilding.
 

toxic avenger

Senior Member
2nd to that while hating the catastrophe, in all it scope, I don't think I will ever cross the rebuilt bridge, so why should I in MS pay federal taxes to rebuilt a bridge in Mary Land.

I guess the same thing could be said about the bridge in Memphis, if it got FEDERAL funds to fix.

What am I saying????? No one will pay taxes to rebuild. Just print more money. Put a little more grease in the wheel there Joe.
It is an Interstate bridge, part of the federal highway system. It is commonplace for federal money to be expended to make emergency repairs and recouped from the responsible party later. It happens regularly, just usually on a smaller extent.

The most common is when there is a truck fire that damages the road surface, the state DOT will make the repairs, fed DOT will reimburse the state, and Fed DOT will submit the expenses to the carrier’s insurance provider or place a lien on the company.
 

Macgyver

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Naval Station Norfolk is the worlds largest Navy base. You have both Norfolk Naval Shipyard (federal) and Newport News (private). Newport News is the only builder of US aircraft carriers and one of 2 that builds US submarines.

I have also been told that the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel was constructed specifically to prevent blockage of the port. Makes sense.
It was cheaper to build a short tunnel in the middle then building mile long inclined approaches on both sides to get the main span 150'+ off the water.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
It is an Interstate bridge, part of the federal highway system. It is commonplace for federal money to be expended to make emergency repairs and recouped from the responsible party later. It happens regularly, just usually on a smaller extent.

The most common is when there is a truck fire that damages the road surface, the state DOT will make the repairs, fed DOT will reimburse the state, and Fed DOT will submit the expenses to the carrier’s insurance provider or place a lien on the company.
No wonder we can't get the banks on the interstate 22 interchanges fixed (they are sloughing off) all the money is going for the tunnel in Boston.

Just kidding thanks.

And still the printing presses run. I'm beginning to see a little smoke there Joe, a little more grease if you please.
 

Slydersan

Veteran Member
Look at the ship's smoke in every video from every vantage. The smoke is blowing sideways. How much clearer does it need to be?

I haven't looked deeply in to the wind/no wind thing. But I will chime in with this. The winds do different things around water in general, and especially around the (former) Key bridge. Also the combination of temperature differences in the air vs. the water makes the wind do all kinds of funky things in that area. The wind also changes as you go up in height.

I know there was a weather type station at the north end of the steel span of the bridge, you could easily see it driving up the ramp to the bridge (heading south). It was a typical wind speed (anemometer?) / rain gauge thing, but it looked industrial strength. So I imagine THAT is where that weather info was coming from.

There were many times I would have no wind leaving my house and then get blown all around on that bridge and vice versa (no wind on the bridge, then breezy at my house). I don't pretend to be a weather/shipping/civil engineering expert, but in my opinion it is 100% possible that at the top of the span there would be no wind registered, but drop down 100+ feet and there would be a noticeable breeze, or any combination of conditions depending on location.

There is a weather station down in the Inner Harbor of Baltimore at the Maryland Science Center, I can't rely on that thing for accurate readings even though it is only a few miles away. And try driving over that bridge in FOG... oh wow, do you get a crash course in temperature layers/variations over water....
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I haven't looked deeply in to the wind/no wind thing. But I will chime in with this. The winds do different things around water in general, and especially around the (former) Key bridge. Also the combination of temperature differences in the air vs. the water makes the wind do all kinds of funky things in that area. The wind also changes as you go up in height.

I know there was a weather type station at the north end of the steel span of the bridge, you could easily see it driving up the ramp to the bridge (heading south). It was a typical wind speed (anemometer?) / rain gauge thing, but it looked industrial strength. So I imagine THAT is where that weather info was coming from.

There were many times I would have no wind leaving my house and then get blown all around on that bridge and vice versa (no wind on the bridge, then breezy at my house). I don't pretend to be a weather/shipping/civil engineering expert, but in my opinion it is 100% possible that at the top of the span there would be no wind registered, but drop down 100+ feet and there would be a noticeable breeze, or any combination of conditions depending on location.

There is a weather station down in the Inner Harbor of Baltimore at the Maryland Science Center, I can't rely on that thing for accurate readings even though it is only a few miles away. And try driving over that bridge in FOG... oh wow, do you get a crash course in temperature layers/variations over water....
And I know even less. So take it for what's its worth. 2 cents.

While that huge ship and cargo, could easily caught the wind, no doubt about that, I would think the main steerage on a dead in water ship, would be current.

The river water flowing towards and under the bridge, and if there was an outflowing tide (towards the ocean) which would also flow towards and under the bridge, and make the channel water have a stronger flow. Would seem to act more on the ship than wind.

If wind was the over powering influence than it could have been possible that the ship would have beached. Depending on wind direction.

Or the wind could have pushed the ship slightly, enough to veer off course and into the pilon. Again depending on wind direction.

Maybe this reply belongs in the conspiracy theory thread.

If it does, I'm heading out soon, and mods feel free to delete, or move.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
I would think the main steerage on a dead in water ship, would be current.
It wasn't dead in the water. It was apparently at eight knots when the power first went out, and slowed after that to about two or less. The wind was from the ship's left side, so it was blown toward the right once steering control was lost.
 
View: https://twitter.com/ChuckCallesto/status/1772824870469902406

Chuck Callesto
@ChuckCallesto
Subscribe

BREAKING NOW:
⚠️
Chesapeake Bay Bridge in Annapolis, MD south of The Francis Scott Key Bridge that COLLAPSED after bring hit by a container ship has been SHUT DOWN... DEVELOPING.. As of now the bridge is CLOSED TO ALL TRAFFIC due to weather conditions or "SAFETY" concerns.. Is this a strange coincidence or something much much more?
View: https://twitter.com/ChuckCallesto/status/1772824870469902406/photo/1
Lotta “not founding” going on.
 

John Deere Girl

Veteran Member
Lotta “not founding” going on.
BREAKING NOW: ⚠️ Chesapeake Bay Bridge in Annapolis, MD south of The Francis Scott Key Bridge that COLLAPSED after bring hit by a container ship has been SHUT DOWN...

DEVELOPING..

As of now the bridge is CLOSED TO ALL TRAFFIC due to weather conditions or "SAFETY" concerns..

Is this a strange coincidence or something much much more?

I really think it was an accident, but this popped up on Twitter last night. Mecoastie already answered why it was closed.
 

Lone_Hawk

Resident Spook
Once they recover the bodies of those who were killed, it's going to be an all hands on deck effort to get that wreckage cleared and the channel back open. At least it needs to be.

The following is not directed at you CTFC.

I wish people would take their alternative theories, and posts containing link to those who are doing so, to the Alt thread. This whole thing is bad enough, and all the arm chair rouge theorist aren't helping any.

[/soapbox]

Anyway, having said that I talked to my son last night, and I promised that I would share when I did.

I talked to him about 0700 yesterday as he arrived at work. He said that he walked into a shit storm over this. He lives in Norfolk and works for a large crane company that does work all over the East Coast, primarily marine engineering type work, but other stuff as well. Anyhow, if you noted in the pics showing the ship, there are two little round islands with towers on either side of the main channel. His boss is the guy who put those in, so he knows those waters well. Also in that meeting was their chief rigger, probably the best at rigging on the East Coast. So, here is what he said.

His two largest customers are the two largest marine engineering companies on the East Coast. His boss had already talked to them before my son got there. Both companies are out of Baltimore and most of their assets were in Baltimore as they were preparing for large infrastructure projects that start up in May. All of those assets are now trapped, so they have tapped his company to take up the slack. Those companies are hustling to get cranes to the crash site that are big enough to do the job. They will attack the bridge from the North, anyone left over will try to get there from the south.

The cause of the bridge collapse is pretty clear cut, even though they will get into details on how and what as they go. But clearance to start clearing it up should come quickly because the primary focus will be on what happened on the ship.

As for bodies, well, they will have to deal with that as it goes along, the vehicles are under tons of steel and concrete and sorry to say, it is what it is, the families will just have to wait for the wreckage to be cleared. They will recover as it goes.

The 1st objective will be to clear the bow of the ship so they can get it out of the way. The major challenging part is the rigging to pick up the pieces. It is all about balancing the load, but they know how to do it, let the pros in and get out of the way. They do this crap all the time, the easy picks go to other companies. They want to pull it in as big a chunks as they can. Believe it or not, he said it makes it easier, challenging for the rigging, but easier and faster for the picks.

Getting the steel out should go quickly if the pin heads get out of the way. But the concrete road bed etc. will have to be dug out and will take longer.

So as bad as all of this is, it could have been worse. Getting the channel will be months if the pin heads get out of the way. A new bridge will be many years, if ever. Others up thread talked about tunnels. My son is currently managing the cranes at new tunnel projects in the Norfolk area, so when those tunnels are done, that equipment can be moved to Baltimore for a possible tunnel.

I will let you know if I hear more.
 

Kayak

Adrenaline Junkie
I think the momentum and use of the anchor had more to do with it than wind or currents, both of which take some time to move stuff in a body of water this large, and with beginning to end happening so quickly, the momentum was going to hands-down beat either of those, with this size craft.

Consider the boat is heading from 10:00 to 4:00 on a clock, and is over halfway there when an anchor is dropped near the front. The rear keeps heading towards 4:00 while the front is stalled a little, which spins it so the whole shebang is now heading towards 6:00. Doesn't much matter whether the anchor is on the port or starboard side if it's at the very frickin' front of the ship.

As to the tides? If they were going out, they'd have sped it up, if they were coming in, they'd have slowed it down. Right? Anyone know which it was? If they were coming in, I don't see how they could've pushed it into the support. Going out? Maybe, but we'd need to see some kind of tidal chart to see for certain, I'd think. I still think the momentum was king, slowed in a detrimental way by the anchor (and a positive way by reversing the engines, but there wasn't enough time) and outside forces minor, though.

ETA: It was an hour from low tide, so the current was going out.
 
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mecoastie

Veteran Member
I look at it this way, Sparrows was the main shipbuilding facility of WW2, it was the powerhouse Mac Daddy with Beth Steel that helped give us that win by dominating the Pacific.

Imagine instead a strafe run on Sparrows Point back then and taking the entire harbor out of commission and our warfooting capability.

IF this was not accidental, someone still masterminded a crippling blow.

Matt Bracken has been raving last four weeks about Chinese chips in the crane facilities at our ports to cripple our on/off container loading.

That a boatload of doofus pajeets (learned a new slur this week!) have somehow pulled off a caper that 1943 Berlin would have salivated over is astounding in itself. This IS the Black Swan event. And we are only beginning to grasp the shockwaves.

One of which is the Haitian flotillas we are being warned about, they won't be getting dumped off courtesy of the Coasties picking up 'drifting dinghie loads' to that port and 'sanctuary city'. Sorry B-More.

It will jostle the UAW rank and file with auto sector shipping derailed there. Might impact some Biden voters that work in those facilities.

And if it stops the 'spice' flowing in the form of fentanyl or heroin, that's also a positive in spite of the tragic.

I don't foresee the bridge getting rebuilt either, not that we can't rally previous can do spirit again. But do we want a bridge there or a tunnel?

They will rig a passenger ferry system for local dock workers. Workarounds will abound.

But when the 3rd or 4th bridge or lock system or major ship terminal marine navigation hub get trashed, then plausible denial/human error will no longer suffice. Expect more
Looking at the map Sparrows Point is seaward of the bridge and wasnt directly impacted by the bridge collapse.
 

Lone_Hawk

Resident Spook
Even if the generators are going out, it doesn't look like any blame can be placed on the captain, though the shipping company might be liable.
The captain is toast no matter what the outcome of the investigation is. Maybe in 10-15 years he can apply for a new job.
 
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