bw
Fringe Ranger
The fact that she was getting drunk in public by herself says something about her judgment, which dovetails well with her comment about the men she's had.
BRKG Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore has collapsed
- Thread starter parocan
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Marie
Veteran Member
This!
BornFree
Came This Far
The part that gets me is when I sit and think about all the ways that the pier could have been protected enough to prevent this. The forces were not too great. The evidence for that is right there in front of us. That pier actually did stop the ship. Even another pier 30 feet in front of it would have stopped the ship before it hit the critical one. But there are much more sensible and scientific ways to design something to stop such a collision with a critical structure. There are ways to slow something down while absorbing the energy. Anyone ever see a runaway truck ramp. Well ramps can be made of concrete and extend 360 degrees. How about multiple layers of breakaway concrete or bendable metal. We were trained to believe that engineers and officials know what they are doing. And while some may be smart in many things they often have that really dumb side as well. And officials that don't want to spend the money which would have been fraction of what they will spend now. And many more people could have died. Change a few details and hundreds could have died here.
Quiet Man
Nothing unreal exists
Play the video at maximum speed, then you can see the following clearly: After the power is restored the first time, you see thick smoke (engines on), and then the ship turns directly toward the pier and takes it out. What are the odds of this being random?
ETA: I doubt this was an accident.
ETA: I doubt this was an accident.
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
bw
Fringe Ranger
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
That's what I saw. It looked like a very hard turn straight at it.
okie-carbine
Veteran Member
We aren't allowed to say that in this thread. Move it to the woo like everyone else. Welcome to TB2K, where you are not allowed to speak freely.
I’ve been on some shipping forums today and they’re saying the bridge protection was adequate for 40 years ago but should’ve been upgraded substantially for todays massive container ships.
Goodbye, Key Bridge. That buoy is the spot where Francis Scott Key penned the verse that became our National Anthem.
Goodbye, Key Bridge. That buoy is the spot where Francis Scott Key penned the verse that became our National Anthem.
bw
Fringe Ranger
When your parents tell you to be polite and respectful, be polite and respectful. This is not complicated.
Seeker22
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Because we've been literally assaulted in the news with a long string of accidents that probably weren't for around three years now.
Long tailed cat, gets tossed in a roomful of rocking chairs. I think woo is some people's defense against a situation too horrible to contemplate. Accident provides a nice defense, too. Critical Thinking skills are necessary. Too early yet to decide.
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
Sure. I understand basic physics. But with no power how did the rudder turn hard right? If you watch the video that is a hard turn right, on a ship moving not moving under full power and it happened quickly all things considered. It's a reasonable question; what moved the rudder into a hard turn?
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
medic38572
TB Fanatic
Until one comes down, then you look and say they should have made the stronger!
Safetydude
Senior Member
That's exactly what picture came to mind! Only happens in the movies! Actually watched a few videos on aircraft carrier and battleship anchor systems, massive as they are, static loading not deployed while underway. Would hate to be around when a link sheared/exploded...that would ruin your day!
Profit of Doom
Dismember
Shadow
Swift, Silent,...Sleepy
With the ship moving forward with the wind pushing it to the right it would have its rudder turned left to resist the wind. If it lost propulsion that effect would have been lost as it lost speed and the ship would drift to it's right. When it regained propulsion turning to the left, back to center, requires pushing the stern to the right as that is how ships are turned, the rudder being at the back.
At that point there was not a lot of harbor to it's right to maneuver in, and very little time. A bit like having trouble with an aircraft at low altitude.
This still does not completely rule out the nefarious. Investigations will have to do that.
Shadow
greysage
On The Level
Profit of Doom
Dismember
Somewhere I saw comments about a 14mph crosswind at the time of the accident. The ship and those stacks of cargo containers presents a huge sail area. If the containers were empty the ship would be riding higher in the water presenting even more sail area. Also, if the containers were empty the wind might have more effect and blow the ship off course even faster. (Kind of a gut feeling here, same surface area/wind load but less mass so it might blow sideways a little faster.) I assume the pilot would be aware of this and should be able to compensate.
Dobbin
Faithful Steed
Maybe the Yemini are giving warning of the best route north from El Paso - and Immigrants headed to Martha's Vineyard will instead be forced to the inland route?
Well, aren't they all headed for work at the Obama Compound as a sou-chef?
Dobbin
bw
Fringe Ranger
No idea what you're trying to communicate. Might want to backtrack this chain to get the context.
Er.. while I agree with your premise, you might want to check your math! 10,000 tons is 20 million pounds... not 20 quadrillion! (And I might be off by a bit... I didn't feel like counting all the zeroes!)
But I also think it had an awful lot of surface for the wind to catch, and it appeared to be riding high and empty. All factors in a perfect storm)
Summerthyme
That was likely partially a function of dropping the anchor, and the tide/current.
Summerthyme
Profit of Doom
Dismember
Any halfway competent engineer could do that. How long was it from first to second blackout? Did they recover from second blackout with lights on again, or was that it for them?
Okie-carbine is off the thread. Good grief!i It's not complicated... you've got an entire separate thread to post woo to your heart's content!
And in the one in a million chance that one of the woo theories is PROVEN correct, we'll add that part of the discussion back to the news thread.
Summerthyme
And in the one in a million chance that one of the woo theories is PROVEN correct, we'll add that part of the discussion back to the news thread.
Summerthyme
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Have you never heard of currents? This isn't a vehicle on a solid road!
Summerthyme
Profit of Doom
Dismember
Cavitation would require massive rotation reverse, would it not? Again, does the engine actually reverse? Can the ship travel backwards, or just depends on tugs?
That number is what I was looking for! And yes, if it was empty (which it appeared to be), it would be riding high and essentially function as a giant sail.
Under normal circumstances, the immensely powerful engines would be able to overcome the tendency to turn into the wind... but not without the ability to steer!
I would love to see a tide and current chart for the area.
Summerthyme
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
I just posted a vid speeded up 8X on the Woo Version thread. Check it out! It's interesting if nothing else.
Profit of Doom
Dismember
I think they call that gravity.
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
Marine flood warning with fast currents. They dropped the anchor on one side only causing pivoting. Had they had time to drop anchors on both sides, but they didn’t, this might not have happened. Applied physics any one???
Profit of Doom
Dismember
Thought so. Is it possible to do that very quickly, hence the massive splashing?
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
Good question and I’ll come back with did it drop fast enough?
Vegas321
Live free and survive
If people have not realized our transportation, electricity infrastructure is sub par and old. Don't know what to say.
The only thing the Federal government should have paid for. And have in A+ condition. Is our roads, bridges, and electric grid, and military. Instead, trillions wasted on wars, gender realignment, abortions, and pork.
Our infrastructure won't even last like the Roman empire. For school kids to see how a society risen and fell.
The only thing the Federal government should have paid for. And have in A+ condition. Is our roads, bridges, and electric grid, and military. Instead, trillions wasted on wars, gender realignment, abortions, and pork.
Our infrastructure won't even last like the Roman empire. For school kids to see how a society risen and fell.
Profit of Doom
Dismember
Remember, the buildings not to be named were supported from below. The bridge was supported from the ends of the span atop the pylons. Don’t think it had cables, just angle iron and beams.
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
This and ins spades^^^ and I thought my grandfathers fishing boat was huge, he fished for crabs, lobsters, and cod north of Newfoundland!I have a suspicion that folks (not you mariners, of course) generally don't have a feel for how massive these propulsion systems are. I did a bit of searching to try and give some perspective. Suffice it to say, when Cap'n Eddie says Crash Astern could shear a propeller shaft, he ain't kidding. This isn't the same as hitting reverse gear in a fishing boat.
There are three main manufacturers in the world of these monsters. I found a picture of the MAN facility in Germany which shows a section of a precision forged and machined crankshaft. You can see the scale by the people under it.
Profit of Doom
Dismember
If power failed, would ships existing motion slap rudder even farther into that turn? What holds rudder in place?