okie-carbine
Veteran Member
Deleted... pure woo. As requested in post #419, "alternative " guesses and woo all goes on the appropriate threat in the Alt forum.
Summerthyme
Summerthyme
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Read the replies under Lara's report.
View attachment 467318
View: https://twitter.com/laralogan/status/1772675651599770093
By all appearances, the Captain did everything he could to avoid the collision.
Until something substantial is brought to light, I'll take this one at face value.
A thread can be started in ALT if peeps want to explore the possibility of bigfoot stowing away on that ship and the 5G, negative waves activated his nanites ingested from Jack Link's beef jerkey...making him disable the powerplants.
97%?It was discussed up thread, several pages back, not sure what the consensus was.
This is probably a single screw ship. Depending on how they used thrust, that could deflect the bow to starboard. Also, there is usually a strong crosswind in that area. I would assume that windage on a container ship would be huge, causing drift.Hard to tell from angles, but is the turn to starboard normal? OR, does the ship steer directly toward the bridge pier?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDceU9x58vc
Sparrows point marshalling yard (where cars from overseas carmakers are unloaded) and US carmakers ship their cars out overseas. Curtis Bay coast guard base, Under Armor has their manufacturing facility at Sparrows point, FedEx main distribution center for Bmore, etc. There are also at least one chemical company in that area as well.Quick question for those who are locals. What harbor facilities are now blocked by this bridge being dropped?
Sun glints?Reference to a tiktok video showing evidence of demolition charges. That goes back to the airliner that hit the 2nd tower firing missiles from under the wings just before impact. IIRC there was 'video evidence' of that as well.
RR
A really good hypothesis of what may have happened.Having been driving a ship that went dark ship unintentionally while underway the most likely scenario to me is:
Generator failure
Emergency generator automatically kicks in
Emergency generator fails
Bang
Most likely causes in my experience
A> Contaminated fuel
B> Improper fuel valve alignment in engine room
C> Something automated shutting fuel valves
There are very few more helpless feelings than loosing power and propulsion while underway. Fortunately when it happened to me we were in the middle of the Gulf with no platforms around to hit. If we would have been in close proximity to anything we probably would have hit it. There's really nothing you can do without steerage other than drop an anchor, which they did.
I would bet my paycheck it's legit accident. IF it was sabotage I'd look at the fuel. Wonder if they bunkered (took on fuel) in Baltimore. There would be potential for sabotaging the fuel at that point. Other than that I'd chalk it up to the capricious nature of the sea.
YMMV
I answered that question before anyone could bring tictok vids over
It’s the metallurgy of the carbon steel catastrophically failing, you can see it really well in low light conditions.
Someone who really knew their metallurgy could identify the steel type by its sparks, carbon throws flowers, mild steel throws spears etc
Whole lot of fail in this. First, the pylons closest to shore were not hit. As seen in the pictures. Second, the ship was in the channel until it lost power and drifted out. Third, multiple reports state that 2 harbor pilots were onboard. Lastly the bridge was not I95 as she stated but I695.
I am not a physics major, but I have more than 2 brain cells,I picked up on all that. And I'm not disparaging his views nor his expertise, but just because something could be an accident; with all that is going on in the world today, doesn't mean it IS an accident.
Not to argue, but I remember a time when 99.99% of the American people took 911 at face value, and it took well over a decade for the majority, and it is now a majority, to stop believing what they had been fed in the official story.
I've been following the over 129 food plants, farms, etc that have been burned down in this country, all the oil refineries that have "had accidents", all the MAJOR train derailments, all since the obamaista's got back in. Much of that has been sabotage, no doubt about it.
And we are being invaded at the same time by over 10 million and that is no accident. This country is under assault.
This could have been an accident, this could have been deliberate.
I don't accept any major damage like this as just happenstance until it is proven as such, not under the present conditions. Buick Electra posted a very good analysis of WHY this would be a perfect act of sabotage, and very very hard to prove.
Hard to prove unless someone can find a link between the Captain and some 3 letter, which also includes the Russians as possibilities. As I mentioned above this could also be a message, and if it happened to be such, the goofballs at the top will never admit it.
For Mid-Atlantic buyers maybe, but B'More is only one of several ports/facilities VW uses to get cars into the US:Sparrows point marshalling yard (where cars from overseas carmakers are unloaded) and US carmakers ship their cars out overseas. Curtis Bay coast guard base, Under Armor has their manufacturing facility at Sparrows point, FedEx main distribution center for Bmore, etc. There are also at least one chemical company in that area as well.
I spent many months on and off at Sparrows Point doing TDI inspections a few years back. In the interim I've been back to look at special goods heading outbound from that port. For it being Maryland, working at Sparrows point was enjoyable. People were nice, the guards were always on top of things and it's always busy there.
Got a friend/colleague that works at Sparrows point inspecting vehicles made overseas and dropped off there. Called him as soon as I woke up this am and heard this. Thank God he's ok. He didn't go to work today; hell nobody that worked Sparrows Point did.
FCA-Alfa Romeo/Fiat/inbound Dodge Hornets/ Isuzu NPR box truck chassis/ Lexus/VW/Audi/Rolls Royce/ Bentley/Nissan are some of the cars that are about to get a little less prevalent on dealer lots.
It does have bow thrusters. If you look at the side you will see a white outline circle with a prop in it. That is where the bow thruster is. The ones I have seen were all electric. Some are hydraulic. Never seen any driven by the main engine directly. That would take a lot of shafting to transfer power. Bow thrusters are for maneuvering in docking and undocking. At that speed there isn’t much a bow thruster can do.A really good hypothesis of what may have happened.
I do have a question. Does a boat that size have bow thrusters? If it does, are they electrically or main engine powered?
That may explain why that boat didn't try and at least turn away from the bridge piling.
I am SO glad that the bridge went to EZ pass tolling (no more toll booths on the bridge) . The old toll booths were at the base of the "hill"-where the bridge started going "up" to where the boat hit.
So in David Simon's world you never consider "alternatives" to the established media line? All you need to know will be told to you?The Wire creator David Simon calls Marjorie Taylor Greene a 'submoronic pratfall of a human being'...
Longtime Baltimore journalist and creator of The Wire called Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene as 'submoronic' for suggesting the tragic bridge collapse was 'intentional.'
David Simon responded to a post by the far-right Georgia lawmaker and reiterated that it was 'port operation' and 'bridge maintenance' that led the Francis Scott Key Bridge to fall after a shipping container crashed into a support structure on Tuesday.
Rep. Greene posted to X, formerly Twitter, calling for a 'serious investigation' into the 'horrifying tragedy.'
'Is this an intentional attack or an accident?' the congresswoman questioned in her post amid questions whether that the bridge collapse was a terrorist attack.
Simon responded with: 'Are you intentional or just an accident? You complete submoronic pratfall of a human being.'
The man who created Baltimore-based crime drama The Wire took to social media on Tuesday to respond to a series of posts pushing conspiracies that the crash was intentional or an inside job.
'Moron, port facilities and operations, interstate bridge maintenance etc. have nothing whatsoever to do with Baltimore's governance but are all state functions,' he said in one X response.
'Immediately politicizing this is for empty, fact-free hacks,' Simon added.
Harrowing footage captured the moment Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge collapsed after it was struck by a cargo ship - leaving five vehicles submerged in water and six construction workers missing.
Law enforcement said, when asked by media on Tuesday morning, that there was nothing to suggest the collision was intentional.
Maryland authorities are using sonar detection devices to search for the crew members who fell into the 47F water as they were working to repair potholes on the 185-foot bridge when it collapsed.
Governor Wes Moore declared a state of emergency Tuesday morning following the catastrophic collision, which occurred at about 1:30 amm. The ship - the Singaporean-flagged Dali - was 20 minutes into its journey when it slammed into a support column on the bridge.
The Democrat said the ship's crew managed to issue a Mayday before it crashed into the bridge, which allowed officials to stop cars from going on the bridge.
'We're thankful that between the 'mayday' and collapse that-that we had officials who were able to-to begin the stop the flow of traffic so more cars were not up on the bridge,' Moore added.
MTG called 'moronic' for suggesting bridge collapse was 'intentional'
Longtime Baltimore journalist and creator of The Wire called Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene as 'submoronic' for suggesting the tragic bridge collapse was 'intentional.'www.dailymail.co.uk
I have a suspicion that folks (not you mariners, of course) generally don't have a feel for how massive these propulsion systems are. I did a bit of searching to try and give some perspective. Suffice it to say, when Cap'n Eddie says Crash Astern could shear a propeller shaft, he ain't kidding. This isn't the same as hitting reverse gear in a fishing boat with an outboard motor.All commercial vessels are required to have emergency steering back aft for that very reason. But it is not required to be manned to my knowledge. When we inspected foreign ships we made them operate it to make sure it was operational. I forget what the times were but it was required to from hard port to hard starboard in a certain amount of time.
The TradePoint terminal for VW actually IS Sparrows Point. They have other ports sure; but for the East coast Sparrows Point is their main point. Not just Mid Atlantic. Eastern US (particularly the northeast) is their highest sale market.For Mid-Atlantic buyers maybe, but B'More is only one of several ports/facilities VW uses to get cars into the US:
Loading…
media.vw.com
Tradepoint Atlantic Terminal is VWGoA’s eighth port in the U.S., which includes locations in Benicia, CA, Davisville, RI, Houston, TX, Jacksonville, FL, Midlothian, TX, San Diego, CA and the Volkswagen Assembly Plant in Chattanooga, TN.
Obv Midlothian is the "inland port" a bunch of manufacturer's use. And VW is already working on this:
VW plans new port to serve US dealers - Just Auto
Will be operational early in 2024www.just-auto.com
"inland port" = get the vehicles state side in poverty spec, pay customs on that value, and then install/activate the various fancy options there. That's why import cars are pre-wired for most everything and you can, if you know how, get all the fancy options for cheap. Which in turn is why the dealers slap on all that nonsense about trukote and vin etching and crap. I swear to dog, the American car dealership system is worse than the communist East German one was. I seem to digress.
Correct. VW is just the one I happen to know about.The TradePoint terminal for VW actually IS Sparrows Point. They have other ports sure; but for the East coast Sparrows Point is their main point. Not just Mid Atlantic. Eastern US (particularly the northeast) is their highest sale market.
Midlothian is the entry point for vehicles made in Puebla (fewer these days because the Golf line got moved back to Germany). All of VW group's high end products (Lamborghini, Porsche, Bentley) come through Baltimore and are transported nationwide from there via car transporters. Sparrows Point and San Diego are the high end unit transshipment locations.
And VW is just one carmaker there. Land Rover uses Baltimore too. In addition to all the others I mentioned. The Dodge Hornet SUV I think is going to be real scarce real quick; they're Alfa Tonales badge engineered and all of them came through Sparrows Point/ Tradepoint.
At least where I was working (not sure about other parts of the port) you had to be cleared to get on location. You have to pass a 10 year DHS background check to be able to get on the piers and onboard the RORO ships.
I tend to agree with this analysis only the bridge fell eerily similar to twin towersYou may be unaware, but Capt. Eddie is a boat captain... BIG boat captain. I'll listen to his reasoned analysis over all the hair on fire conspiracies, especially when those spouting them obviously haven't read al, the posts.
THEY LOST POWER...that means *no rudder*, wh8ch means *no steering*. The current is strong there, and reportedly at high/flood tide.
They dropped an anchor, hoping to help turn the ship away from the bridge, but it essentially acted like a pivot to turn right into the support.
And apparently (all of this is from our expert members above... I'm a landlubber!) a significant percentage of ship's masters/captains are Ukrainian.
If it had been a deliberate terrorist activity , they wouldn't have called Mayday and saved a bunch of lives.
Summerthyme
On the other hand, if you're falling WITH the bridge deck, there's a lot of tonnage poking that initial hole in the water for you. The turbulence of the water then coming around the decking, hitting you and banging you against girders is a second hazard, and might be even worse than the drop.Let's say it's a 120 foot free fall from bridge deck, you'd hit the water doing almost 60 mph. I know from high speed boat crashes from jet boat races, at about 50 mph, water becomes a nearly solid surface for non-streamlined shapes.
Well, down, of course. Not much similar beyond that. Twin towers reference should go to alt.I tend to agree with this analysis only the bridge fell eerily similar to twin towers
Never been on a merchant ship but a lot of sea time in service. The power generated goes into a reduction gear. Very large type transmission. You could not use the rpm’s directly off a Diesel engine or motor. It would shear the shaft or torque it.Do those engines actually internally reverse, or is there some kind of transmission involved?
That is not what’s happening here. In MY world, if a clock stops I check if it ran out battery, or needs winding up, or if it got damaged or worn out. I don’t go frantically looking around for imaginary clock damaging goblins from outer space hired by the government to make me late for work so they can hire illegal immigrants.So in David Simon's world you never consider "alternatives" to the established media line? All you need to know will be told to you?
Lara Logan.
She must be desperate for eyes.
Cap't Eddie, we live to go down rabbit holes, the deeper the better You ought to know that by now!Not to throw cold water on the doom-fest, but it was an accident. Cascading failures lead to this. The same thing could have easily happened to me, and everyone else who's worked on the water for more than a few years.
Headed home from a LONG 3 weeks.on the boat, signing off for now.
ETA:
I'm NOT a govt disinformation officer. Just trying t o keep yall from going down dry rabbit holes.
No, they have to stop the engine and essentially start it backwards.Do those engines actually internally reverse, or is there some kind of transmission involved?
I'd give the demo's at least two hours to get on it!I want to know 2 things.
1. Why did Trump order this?
2. When is Fani Willis going to order his arrest,?
OK. Sarc off.
Lol
Cap'n, you're making good suppositions as always. The way that power went off, came back on and then went off again makes me want to expand the root cause to something in the electrical distribution system.Which also lends itself to fuel being the issue. Most ships burn "bunker oil" when at sea, but low sulfer diesel in and around port. Diesel burns cleaner (for emissions) and gives slightly more power, but it's more expensive. Ships have large bunker oil tanks but much smaller diesel "day tanks" for in and around Port.
For a laugh, look at the anchor drop in the Battleship film, when the ship spins around.Dropping an anchor might just shear everything associated with the anchor system if the anchor hit and lodged on a crack in solid bedrock.
Those damn hobgoblins!That is not what’s happening here. In MY world, if a clock stops I check if it ran out battery, or needs winding up, or if it got damaged or worn out. I don’t go frantically looking around for imaginary clock damaging goblins from outer space hired by the government to make me late for work so they can hire illegal immigrants.
They both happened too quickly. Its hard to understand how the whole bridge would go that quickly unless there are cables involved I'm not trying to make a big deal about this just doesn't seem right to me.Well, down, of course. Not much similar beyond that. Twin towers reference should go to alt.
I was at a gun show doing displays one time in Butte, MT. There was a good looking younger thing getting pee-eyed at the bar near the motel and we were chatting. At one point she said, slightly slurred, in ALL SERIOUSNESS, "there are only TWO MEN IN MY LIFE THAT HAVE NEVER SCREWED ME OVER, MY DAD AND CAPTAIN MORGAN!"I'd sit down with Capt. Eddie and a Capt. Morgan anytime.
I think it is easy to forget a lot of ocean going modern ships have bulbous bow below the water line to cut through the water and gain speed or fuel economy.I am not a physics major, but I have more than 2 brain cells,
Johnny it is all physics. To even begin to understand what happens, one must be able to understand that. Let me just show you what I understand. You have a ship that weighs in at 10000 tons that is 2000 x 100000 which is 200,000,000 million pounds traveling at 15 knots. The power goes out twice, they lose the capability to steer. The angle they are traveling is not what it looks like on camera as the camera is stationary. The hull of the ship is atleast 18+ feet underwater. When they lose the capability to steer the rudder turns right and the captain loses complete control, pressure from 200000000 lbs of weight along with the 18 feet+ of hull underwater is a lot of deflection that causes the ship to be pushed to the right considering it was traveling at a much different path forward from the camera angles.
To show you what I mean look at a clock from the ship coming up the river it looks like it is traveling at the 20 mark on your watch. The camera is facing the ship at thirty. When the power goe out twice it starts to turn to the right unable to control because it is dead in the water and moving forward it's slowing down but still turning to the right. Why is it turning right. 1 it lost power 2. No rudder control. 3. once it started to turn right, the pressure from the water was pushing it to the right even farther.
That is the way I see it. I hope it makes sense.