DISASTER EMP expert says no military in 30-60 days after major EMP attack

[Johnny Twoguns]

Not something I would want to admit to on my resume.



Pretty sure you don't know who Loop is, nor his qualifications. But there I go repeating myself.

RR

I've read quite a bit of Loup's stuff on here between maybe 2003 and 2012 about the tech stuff and his views on it. I can still remember you'd get his dander up pretty quick if you were on the cattlemen or sheep herders side when it came to shooting wolves. I'm not a full time lurker here for about the last 10-12 years or so, just some drive byes. I've spent a few hundred hours on here over the years, not that far off from the Y2K days when Dennis took over. Oh, I remember the Days of the Comets and the early days when Remote Viewing and the Webbots got pretty restricted. The times have changed.

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

I have a septic tank. Neighbor has a pool. There’s water in the irrigation ditch most of the year.

The point of the guy saying at some point the methane might back up and bubble through got me thinking; 'never thought of that one'. Toilet not flushing, sure I've thought of that one decades ago.

 

[Reasonable Rascal]

Yeah, sustained. I didn't say massive.

Your lack of understanding regards such matters is telling. Apparently you are one of those who believes one or two warheads detonated over the US will shut the country down. And repeated blasts - because we would never, ever, be able to strike back - will keep us that way.

You seem a bit miffed. PG&E charging you too much? Yeah. Ah well. Too bad.

Have never lived in CA so your attempt at a touche' doesn't work.

Russia has always taken nuclear war seriously. We don't. Where is your local bomb shelter? There are none. How much education and drills have you experienced the last 40 years? Zero?

A fair bit, actually. I turned down a full ride all expenses training session for a week at the Nevada Test Site. Only because I didn't want to use my vacation. Other training though. Going back to the late 70's. Hands on, certifications, full gear, etc. Renew, recert, etc. And despite your apparent certainty there are still bomb shelters. Public as well as private. They just aren't as common as once was, and not as well stocked, if at all in many instances.

Russia has never stopped thinking about nuclear war. We stopped taking it seriously soon after the Soviet Union fell. Russia does have a fail safe system set up, and they are set up to keep hitting us over weeks. We can destroy them in a day; but they are still set up with independent launch systems that can keep hitting us after Day One.

Don't forget those pre-positioned suitcase nukes while you are at it. They used to be all the rage.

Have our nuclear forces been updated the last 30 years? Other than our sub fleet, no, not really. Has Russia? Oh yeah, they've been keeping up with things. Sorry you can't handle inconvenient truths like that. Maybe you need a break from this thread and go relax with a cold one or two.

Tell ya what there, Popguns, maybe you can act like a mature adult and stop slinging juvenile assertions about and downplaying your betters like Loup - for but one example - in a faint attempt to sound intellectual. It is very obvious your understanding of the intricacies of nuclear conflict - for that is what you are talking of here, not CMEs - comes from novels and little else. You are not making your case to any good effect.

RR

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

Your lack of understanding regards such matters is telling. Apparently you are one of those who believes one or two warheads detonated over the US will shut the country down. And repeated blasts - because we would never, ever, be able to strike back - will keep us that way.

"As of 2024, the Federation of American Scientists estimates that Russia possesses 5,580 nuclear weapons, while the United States has 5,428; Russia and the U.S. each have about 1,600 active deployed strategic nuclear warheads. Russia's stockpile is growing in size, while the United States' is shrinking." Are they counting MIRVS into those numbers? I don't know. I don't care. If it happens everyone has more than enough. You really are lost in the weeds as to what I've said. At this point you are talking to yourself. I did lots of drills under school desks as a child. I know all about it.

Have never lived in CA so your attempt at a touche' doesn't work.

Well then, I don't understand your strong dislike (hatred?) of PG&E then. To each their own. My resume still looks good PG&E notwithstanding.

A fair bit, actually. I turned down a full ride all expenses training session for a week at the Nevada Test Site. Only because I didn't want to use my vacation. Other training though. Going back to the late 70's. Hands on, certifications, full gear, etc. Renew, recert, etc. And despite your apparent certainty there are still bomb shelters. Public as well as private. They just aren't as common as once was, and not as well stocked, if at all in many instances.

99.9999% of your fellow citizens have no access to a bomb shelter. I took training for deadly gasses in the oil fields. Does that count as a front line grunt in other fields?

Mos

Lost most of that last comment (funky puter); suitcase nukes were old hat almost but not quite 20 years ago. Yes, the original Samson Option was Israel warning Europe, the USA, and Moscow they all would get hit if they turned on Israel. And suitcase nukes were the delivery system back in the 90's.

Tell ya what there, Popguns, maybe you can act like a mature adult and stop slinging juvenile assertions about and downplaying your betters like Loup - for but one example - in a faint attempt to sound intellectual. It is very obvious your understanding of the intricacies of nuclear conflict - for that is what you are talking of here, not CMEs - comes from novels and little else. You are not making your case to any good effect.

I don't down play Loup. I just wouldn't bet dollars to donuts on theoretical. Show me where it has been used, large scale, in real life. It hasn't. That's my point. Ditto for a large CME. The planet has been hit, some things have gone down. Do I consider all or any of that large scale? No. Not yet. Maybe I'm just hard to impress. I don't know.

Until something extraordinary happens, you just will never know. Countries around the world wouldn't be pissing away hundreds of millions on building, and studying EMPs if it was all a farce.

I don't particularly care. Nukes, EMPs, wunderwaffen, if it happens some of us will die quickly, most will suffer a really bad fate, maybe on a dinner plate ( ). THAT would be embarrassing. I'm not worried about dying. But I'd prefer to die well if you know what I mean.

I really don't stress it. I posted the vid because the guy made some good points. I'll bet 80% of those disputing what I've said on here never watched it. I got into the EMP debate because of responses here, that is not why I posted it. He made some interesting out of the box thoughts, yes even on CPreppers youtube, whom I kinda laugh at, on most of his vids I watch out of boredom. Many replies here were just knee jerk though, so..........................

I'm not trying to sound intellectual, I am intellectual. If I wasn't a bit how could I defend, parry, thrust, step back, parry, lunge with so many opponents, all on one thread? Not saying I'm the best but taking the fencer's stance does make you think and waken up the dendrites. Don't take it all so seriously. We live, we die, some of us have great adventures in between. All of us experience the oddities of life.

RR

 

[Profit of Doom]

The point of the guy saying at some point the methane might back up and bubble through got me thinking; 'never thought of that one'. Toilet not flushing, sure I've thought of that one decades ago.

Did you know, under the floor tiles of a certain unnamed .gov data center, are “trap primers” installed to keep condensate drains sealed for this very purpose.

 

[KFhunter]

There is an advisory council but the speaker is not on it.

Task Force on National and Homeland Security » Saving lives by saving our grid.

emptaskforce.us

Biography | Jonathan Hollerman | Grid Down Consulting

Jonathan has spent years working as an Emergency Preparedness Consultant specializing in Survival Retreat design all over the world.

www.griddownconsulting.com

From the research I did no the guy quickly, he sells EMP for a living. His Task Force and personal website are all about selling his books on EMP survival as well as a fiction series. The only govt service I can find is his military service.

Sooo, he prolly spams their X feed and claims he’s advising them, which has about as much veracity as how I advise Trump on TB2K

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

Did you know, under the floor tiles of a certain unnamed .gov data center, are “trap primers” installed to keep condensate drains sealed for this very purpose.

Nope. Never heard that one. How about every one else's bathrooms and data centers? Not trying to be difficult but are the majority of military and government bases and buildings set up with such traps? I doubt it.

Look you, and I, can always come up with exceptions to anything. I don't work that way. I used to repair boards that failed in millionths of a second, but many were very very intermittent, and you couldn't leave a $60,000 logic analyzer plugged into that board for a week trying to figure it out, not when there were 20 other boards you can swap in; which is exactly what the vast majority of techs, technologists and many engineers would do, in my experience. I was the only super curious tech that didn't want the failure to defeat me in my almost 50 yrs of high tech. Not at the very beginning mind you; at the beginning I could run the equipment under all kinds of hazardous situations, but I didn't actually start getting good at troubleshooting until I worked at Heathkit for a year or so. Anyone remember Heathkit? You had to troubleshoot and repair any ole' home hobbyist contraption under the sun. Most of which you only saw once.

I look to the average usage, not the exceptions, most of the time. As I've asked before, what does that have to do with a military base, ANY military base that will never again get a gallon of gas, or jet fuel, ever again?

It took me a few replies before I went back an re-watched the vid; he is talking worst case and so am I. Grid is down, never comes up again. I can't and won't debate on other than those conditions. What's the point? Just to argue?

Grid is down, will never come up again, what do you do for the next year? His point is hide until most die off. That is the point of the video. The part about the military is he said most military bases will become un-habitable in most places, fairly quickly. He wasn't talking about exceptions to that. There will be thousands of exceptions, for a while. A short while.

He mentioned a training exercise he was brought on. On a mountainside some ways away they all saw a bright beacon, light up the trees around, then fade. Then do it again. Then again. He asked what the beacon was and he was told that's just someone smoking from another training groups. From miles away.

To those that actually went an listened to the podcast instead of knee jerking onto this thread, THAT was his point, not how real EMPs are or are not. His point was/is gov will crash and be totally ineffectual in a grid down, permanently, and so will the military for the most part. His point is hide out, completely, if you can, in a total grid down situation. Don't think about bartering, yada yada yada, and all that. I'm not buying into that completely, but I know from previous study that the US military studies say that in a nuke war, 90% of US survivors would die within a year from lack of resources.

That was his point, basically. It would have been nice if some posting on this thread had actually spent 30 minutes listening and then discussing what was said on it instead of knee jerking their way into getting all huffy. Oh well so what, gave me something to do for a few hours.

I thought it was an interesting POV. Different anyway. I've seen posts on here years back where some seemed fairly serious about eating other humans under worst case. Think about it.

 

[Reasonable Rascal]

I'm not trying to sound intellectual, I am intellectual. If I wasn't a bit how could I defend, parry, thrust, step back, parry, lunge with so many opponents, all on one thread? Not saying I'm the best but taking the fencer's stance does make you think and waken up the dendrites. Don't take it all so seriously. We live, we die, some of us have great adventures in between. All of us experience the oddities of life.

Seriously, dude, you need to go back and reread what you wrote. You know all about it because you played cave explorer under your school desk?

The only strength any of your arguments has is the admitted fact that the world has never suffered an actual large scale EMP attack. Because of that theoretical counts for naught, per your arguments. But you have a really good grasp on things because you've lurked here on occasion for 10-12 years. Gotcha.

I'm not trying to sound intellectual, I am intellectual. If I wasn't a bit how could I defend, parry, thrust, step back, parry, lunge with so many opponents, all on one thread? Not saying I'm the best but taking the fencer's stance does make you think and waken up the dendrites.

Ya know, when I was working a few years in residential psych there were several that expressed much the same. They still had to take their meds.

RR

 

[Profit of Doom]

Nope. Never heard that one. How about every one else's bathrooms and data centers? Not trying to be difficult but are the majority of military and government bases and buildings set up with such traps? I doubt it.

Super specialized space age technology. From Amazon. And any decent plumbing supply house.

 

[Profit of Doom]

not trying to sound intellectual, I am intellectual. If I wasn't a bit how could I defend, parry, thrust, step back, parry, lunge with so many opponents, all on one thread?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBYfZOwKu4k&pp=ygUYQnVnZ3MgYnVtbnkgcXVhcnRlcnN0YWZm

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBYfZOwKu4k&pp=ygUYQnVnZ3MgYnVtbnkgcXVhcnRlcnN0YWZm

Never forget the dodge. I forgot the dodge.

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

Never forget the dodge.

Seriously, dude, you need to go back and reread what you wrote. You know all about it because you played cave explorer under your school desk?

The only strength any of your arguments has is the admitted fact that the world has never suffered an actual large scale EMP attack. Because of that theoretical counts for naught, per your arguments. But you have a really good grasp on things because you've lurked here on occasion for 10-12 years. Gotcha.



Ya know, when I was working a few years in residential psych there were several that expressed much the same. They still had to take their meds.

RR

Working or living there as a resident? Seriously, are you very bored today and tonight or do you do this often? Fixate on someone or something (like PG&E?) and then have nothing more promising to do than run around for hours and try to get attention? Seriously dude, what I wrote was a joke, except the part of the dendrites. Look them up and be a bit more intellectual.

If the nurse has walked away and no one is answering your buzzer just let me know. I'll probably be up for another hour or so and can keep you company if you need it. I'm generally sympathetic to the old and infirm.

If you have any personal experience in working, fixing, helping to develop, install, operate, fix, and maintain high tech let me know, I'm interested. If what you have done is plug things in and went to classes on how to operate things by pushing buttons and flipping toggle switches, I'll understand, and I won't belittle it.

But really, that is kindergarten to really understanding those things that make your modern world all modern and stuff. I don't expect anyone not living or having lived in that world to understand it, but don't belittle it, it makes you look like a rube and a hayseed.

People have died and do die just so you and I can plug our toasters into the wall and make toast. No, they weren't in the military, and I don't give a fxxk. They died so we could have electricity. Getting 120 volts AC to your house, and my house, is a massive, huge, big super complicated friggin deal. Without it the US military would not exist in it's current form.

Go to bed. You are boring and not worth wasting any more time on. Unless of course, the nurses keep ignoring your buzzer. But in that case you will have to ask for me to sit with you. You've become tiresome.

 

[mecoastie]

The point of the guy saying at some point the methane might back up and bubble through got me thinking; 'never thought of that one'. Toilet not flushing, sure I've thought of that one decades ago.

If the public sewer system backs up methane will be the least of your worries. More like raw sewage blowing up out of the toilet, shower and sink. Happened twice to my MIL before she had a back flow preventer installed. Not really an issue if you are on your own septic.

 

[LoupGarou]

I agree with Johnny TwoGuns on the issue of a CME that could take out a good amount of the grids (not just power) that we have today, depending on how much of a hit we get, how strong it is, and how long it is. And that, just as the video talked about, could leave a LOT of areas without much in the resources to "keep going" department.

High Altitude based Nuclear based EMP (HEMP), however is not going to do that. The sun easily could. The sun could also have a complete 360 degree by 360 degree (full surface) sunspot overgrowth, turn "black" (infrared levels way up, visible light levels way down) for a short period of time, and then dose out a massive CME in all directions, which would not only take out all of the sats above us, and get rid of most of the long line connected systems, but also give whatever the sun facing side is when the CME gets here a nice toasting that could be explained in language that one only thought one would read in Revelations...

At the lab I was in, we did real world testing of both COTS and Mil systems and devices, not just "play" in the theoretical side of it. And our testing was in real world conditions, at RF and magenetic (H and/or E Field) levels WELL above what any nuclear pulse could create, not just in a lab. HEMP is not the threat.

I also at least partially agree with Johnny TwoGuns and that video, on the issue of the military not coming to help us. Nor will the government come to help anyone. CoG is just that, protect their own a$$es. I disagree in the area of how well the military will continue to work once the civilian grids go down. Most of the military has multiple levels of redundancy, they spend trillions of dollars on keeping all of those levels "available". If the grids go down around them, and their satellites go toasty, they still will have power, will still have supplies (and the ability to get more), and will still have comms. They have more portable (and semi-permanent) alternate (solar and other) power systems than other groups out there, and it is spread out over the globe. Yes, they over-rely on the "high tech" systems (especially comms) now, but they also keep the "old ways" not only handy, but practiced. In fact, if you have a good shortwave receiver with SSB capability, you can listen in this weekend to them practicing with Amateur radio operators. Which I would say is perfect timing with what is also coming to some unknown level this weekend... You can get more info here: https ://www.dodmars.org/mars-comex-information-website/armed-forces-day (copy, paste, remove the space) But I will also post the Frequencies and times here:

ANNUAL ARMED FORCES DAY CROSSBAND TEST (11 May 2024)
The Department of Defense will host this year’s Armed Forces Day (AFD) Crossband Test, scheduled for May
11, 2024. This annual event is open to all licensed amateur radio operators and will not impact any public or
private communications. For more than 50 years, military and amateur stations have taken part in this event,
which is an interoperability exercise between hobbyist and government radio stations.
The AFD Crossband Test is a unique opportunity to test two-way communications between military
communicators and radio stations in the Amateur Radio Service (ARS), as authorized in 47 CFR 97.111. These
tests provide opportunities and challenges for radio operators to demonstrate individual technical skills in a tightly
controlled exercise scenario that does not impact any public or private communications.
Military stations will transmit on selected military frequencies and will announce the specific ARS frequencies
monitored. All times are ZULU (Z), and all frequencies are Upper Side Band (USB) unless otherwise noted. The
frequencies used for the test will not impact any public or private communications and will not stray outside the
confines of the exercise.
The following stations will be making two-way radiotelephone contacts with stations in the ARS between the
time periods listed on the frequencies listed in Kilohertz below.
AAC / BARROW ARMY RESERVE CENTER, KY (USB + RTTY)
1100Z - 2259Z 4011.0 kHz USB 5,346.5 kHz USB 6,968.5 kHz USB
13,963.5 kHz USB 18,254.0 kHz USB
AAN / U.S. NORTHERN COMMAND, CO (USB + RTTY)
1300Z - 2000Z 6,970.5 kHz USB 14,550.5 kHz USB
AAZ / FT HUACHUCA, AZ
1500Z - 2359Z 7,645.0 kHz USB 14,579.0 kHz USB 18,211.0 kHz USB
ADB / CAMP FOSTER, OKINAWA
1500Z - 23590Z 14,487.0 kHz USB 20,994.0 kHz USB
AFM4NPD / NAVAL SUPPORT ACTIVITY MID-SOUTH, MILLINGTON, TN
1200Z – 2200Z 4,575.0 kHz USB 7,540.0 kHz USB 13,993.0 kHz USB
AGA0WJ/ NAS WHIDBEY ISLAND OAK HARBOR, WA (USB + RTTY)
1600Z - 2200Z 5,403.5 kHz USB 7,431.5 kHz USB 13,528.5 kHz USB
18,272.5 kHz USB
AGA2SY / HANCOCK FIELD, NY
1200Z - 2000Z 4,540.0 kHz USB 7,473.5 kHz USB 15,807.0 kHz USB
19,955.0 kHz USB 20,740.0 kHz USB 27,736.0 kHz USB
AGA5SC / SCOTT AFB, IL
1600Z - 2300Z 5,186.0 kHz USB 7,938.0 kHz USB 14,832.0 kHz USB 27,736.0 kHz USB
AGA9TR / TRAVIS AFB, CA
1700Z - 2359Z 7,329.0 kHz USB 14,411.0 kHz USB 20,873.0 kHz USB
27,877.0 kHz USB

GRIFFIN1 / 193rd RTI ARMY NATIONAL GUARD BETHANY BEACH, DE
1300Z – 1800Z 7,533.5 kHz USB 14,441.5 kHz USB 18,293.0 kHz USB
NAF / NEWPORT NAVAL RADIO STATION MUSEUM NEWPORT, RI (USB + CW)
1400Z - 2300Z 7,498.5 kHz USB 14,463.5 kHz USB
NBGC/ USS HORNET AMATEUR RADIO CLUB ABLEMEDA, CA (USB + CW)
1500Z – 0000Z 7362.5 kHz USB 14,375 kHz USB 21,886 kHz USB
27,860 kHz USB
NEPM / USS IOWA BB 61 LOS ANGELES, CA (USB + RTTY +CW)
1400Z - 2300Z 7,469.0 kHz USB 14,667.0 kHz USB 18,444.0 kHz USB
21,856.0 kHz USB 21,918.0 kHz USB
NIIW / USS MIDWAY CV-41 SAN DIEGO, CA (USB + CW + RTTY)
11May 0001Z-0400Z & 11May 1400Z-12May 0300Z 4,010.0 kHz USB 5,371.5 kHz USB
7,455.4 kHz USB 14,476.0 kHz USB 18,060.0 kHz USB
NMC1/ US COAST GUARD BASE ALAMEDA, CA (USB + RTTY)
1700Z - 2359Z 7,3530.0 kHz USB 14,461.0 kHz USB
NSS / US NAVAL ACADEMY ANNAPOLIS, MD (USB + CW)
11May 1300Z – 12May 0200Z 4,038.5 kHz USB 5,330.5 kHz USB 7,533.5 kHz USB
9,447.0 kHz USB 14,487.0 kHz USB
NWKJ / USS YORKTOWN PATRIOTS POINT, SC
1400Z - 2300Z 4,027.0 kHz USB 7,360.0 kHz USB 14,438.5 kHz USB
NWVC / LST-325 EVANSVILLE, IN (USB + CW)
11May 1200Z – 12May 0300Z 3,325.0 kHz USB 6,913.0 kHz USB 9,988.5 kHz USB
13,974.0 kHz USB
WAR / PENTAGON WASHINGTON, DC (USB + CW + RTTY)
1200Z - 2400Z 4018.0 kHz USB 5,357.0 kHz USB 7,305.0 kHz USB
14,383.5 kHz USB 20,997.0 kHz USB

An AFD message will be transmitted utilizing the Military Standard (MIL-STD) Serial PSK waveform
(M110) followed by MIL-STD Wide Shift FSK (850 Hz RTTY) as described in MIL-STD 188-110A/B.
Technical information regarding these waveforms is provided at:

Amateur Radio MIL-STD Software Kit - Public - Google Drive

drive.google.com

The AFD Defense Message will also be sent at 1400Z and 2000Z on the frequenciesy designated below.
AAC: MILSTD110/RTTY 13,963.5 kHz USB
AAZ: MILSTD110 14,579.0 kHz USB
ADB: MILSTD110 20,994.0 kHz USB
AGA0WJ MILSTD110/RTTY 13,528.5 kHz USB
NEPM: RTTY 14,667.0 kHz USB
NIIW: MILSTD110/RTTY/CW 14,476.0 kHz USB
NWKJ: MILSTD110 14,438.5 kHz USB
NWVC: CW 13,974.0 kHz USB
WAR: MILSTD110/RTTY/CW 14,383.5 kHz USB
For those who wish to document their contacts with a QSL card, go to https://www.usarmymars.org/events and
complete the request form.

The military will continue on communicating, and working. Yes, at a much reduced efficiency, but it will keep working. The question would be to what "point" and if there was a reason to be "working" depending on how bad and how widespread the world's damage was.

And I will agree with the "Time will tell" notion as far as how well anything works after we get a big enough CME hit, as we don't know how any of the systems, OR PEOPLE, will react. We could have a 5-10% CME caused damage occur after a really bad hit, and then have certain groups that also want "the systems down forever" start from there and try to finish things off. And there are plenty of those groups, worldwide.

We could also see a massive CME blast hit and toast 2/3s of the Earth's surface really bad, leaving a lot of smoking debris on what was the sun's facing side, and damage from the magnetic reconnect's blast on the far facing side, which will have crapton of charged particles, UV and visible light, and RF in the ELF to SHF range. Whatever was in space left "orbiting" in space at the time would be toast.

 

[Southside]

I am not worried about the Russians, nor the Chinese.
I am concerned about the treason within our borders.

 

[desertvet2]

We will all find out soon enough, just what is what.

Be ready

 

[Profit of Doom]

I agree with Johnny TwoGuns on the issue of a CME that could take out a good amount of the grids (not just power) that we have today, depending on how much of a hit we get, how strong it is, and how long it is. And that, just as the video talked about, could leave a LOT of areas without much in the resources to "keep going" department.

High Altitude based Nuclear based EMP (HEMP), however is not going to do that. The sun easily could. The sun could also have a complete 360 degree by 360 degree (full surface) sunspot overgrowth, turn "black" (infrared levels way up, visible light levels way down) for a short period of time, and then dose out a massive CME in all directions, which would not only take out all of the sats above us, and get rid of most of the long line connected systems, but also give whatever the sun facing side is when the CME gets here a nice toasting that could be explained in language that one only thought one would read in Revelations...

At the lab I was in, we did real world testing of both COTS and Mil systems and devices, not just "play" in the theoretical side of it. And our testing was in real world conditions, at RF and magenetic (H and/or E Field) levels WELL above what any nuclear pulse could create, not just in a lab. HEMP is not the threat.

I also at least partially agree with Johnny TwoGuns and that video, on the issue of the military not coming to help us. Nor will the government come to help anyone. CoG is just that, protect their own a$$es. I disagree in the area of how well the military will continue to work once the civilian grids go down. Most of the military has multiple levels of redundancy, they spend trillions of dollars on keeping all of those levels "available". If the grids go down around them, and their satellites go toasty, they still will have power, will still have supplies (and the ability to get more), and will still have comms. They have more portable (and semi-permanent) alternate (solar and other) power systems than other groups out there, and it is spread out over the globe. Yes, they over-rely on the "high tech" systems (especially comms) now, but they also keep the "old ways" not only handy, but practiced. In fact, if you have a good shortwave receiver with SSB capability, you can listen in this weekend to them practicing with Amateur radio operators. Which I would say is perfect timing with what is also coming to some unknown level this weekend... You can get more info here: https ://www.dodmars.org/mars-comex-information-website/armed-forces-day (copy, paste, remove the space) But I will also post the Frequencies and times here:



The military will continue on communicating, and working. Yes, at a much reduced efficiency, but it will keep working. The question would be to what "point" and if there was a reason to be "working" depending on how bad and how widespread the world's damage was.

And I will agree with the "Time will tell" notion as far as how well anything works after we get a big enough CME hit, as we don't know how any of the systems, OR PEOPLE, will react. We could have a 5-10% CME caused damage occur after a really bad hit, and then have certain groups that also want "the systems down forever" start from there and try to finish things off. And there are plenty of those groups, worldwide.

We could also see a massive CME blast hit and toast 2/3s of the Earth's surface really bad, leaving a lot of smoking debris on what was the sun's facing side, and damage from the magnetic reconnect's blast on the far facing side, which will have crapton of charged particles, UV and visible light, and RF in the ELF to SHF range. Whatever was in space left "orbiting" in space at the time would be toast.

You’re just a bundle of joy, aren’t you?

 

[Weps]

You mean they operate on analog vacuum tubes? It's been over 40 years since I worked on any of those beasts. Anything since (that WAS analog) was analog equipment like measuring water flow in a canal or temperature increase and decrease in hot houses. They all then had to convert the analog information into digital form like Scada to be handled, process, stored to be used or analyzed. So when you say analog are you talking about the end point radio waves? I don't know, I'm just asking. My supposition is you are talking about end point communications, not the equipment that those signals then feed into, which I am guessing would be digital. There are a lot of systems that convert digital to analog, and analog to digital; I've worked with a fair bit of it in telecommunications. But in todays world it all falls into the digital world to be processed and handled.

My point is all about public systems. When and if public systems go down and stay down, so will the military systems, it is all then up to a matter of time, and how much of it. Except those living in well stocked DUMBS. Good luck to that.

Who brings the food to the bases? Who brings the fuel? Who handles the close by cell phone towers that the soldiers, mil use? Again, I understand the US Mil is set up to fight a very limited nuclear war or wars against very small woefully non Peer to Peer adversaries. But if all else collapses around them, the US military will run out of steam fairly quickly.

That sounds very comforting but I don't believe it. They have stocks of water, parts for everything, mre's stored, on base, for a year for the troops let alone the people around them? They all have their own power generating facilities? Fuel for a year stored on base? Not buying it. I've worked in companies with giant chinese gennies backed up with large battery banks that kick in within a maybe 3 seconds of a local power company drop out. Yeah it's great. Certainly wouldn't last long if nobody brought the fuel truck for let's say two weeks? One week? Running full time?

I and brother spent an entire winter in a small one room cabin on a small island off Vancouver Island with a kerosene lantern and an old fashioned wood cookstove with a fire box about 10x12x14 or so. All winter. So we are talking about 6 months or so in total. No electricity. No tv. No radio. No running water. I can't remember where we crapped but there was no bathroom. Almost no food except oysters from the beach down the rocky cliffs, occasionally a few potatoes or carrots. Been there and done that. I hear you brother. We were hearty men back then . Finlander. I'm sure you've heard of us . (full disclosure, Dutch landlord and family did invite us in a few times for supper and liquers!! lol).

I've looked into methane traps to run small cookstoves or old fashioned gas lights. Enough gas build up pushes through the water traps. You know, it bubbles, that kind of thing.

I know and I do appreciate the knowledge base here. This thread is about a podcast in this guys views on a few things to think about if there is a catastrophic failure of our Grid where it won't be coming back and what to think about, in a general way, for the next year or so when everyone else is busy dying off. I have a fair bit of real world experience in electronics and telecommunications in that public sector you think the military doesn't need and can function just fine without it. Sounds delusional to me.

I know what you are saying. I've looked into much of this for decades. Like Doc I've studied military history, and history of civilizations for roughly 68 years or so (I started early- it all started with Tacitus......and Tarzan), all the way back to the ongoing debates of caveman days. I decided long ago in this life that I didn't want to go into the mil and peel potatoes, so odd fortunate brought me into high tech before there was high tech, at least in the way it is perceived today.

IF there is a catastrophic failure of our society, most of the military's continuity of operations won't mean crap to most of it and it won't take that long. It will start to fall apart in the first 30 days as soon as the majority realize that there won't be any coming back. Many, maybe most, will stick around for as long as it lasts, many won't. I suggest you read first hand accounts of the retreat of the French coalition Army under Napoleon during the retreat from Moscow. It started to fall apart with every man for themselves (in general) in the first 3 weeks leaving Moscow. In less than two months it was a mob. Largest military grouping in history up to that time, and it did not take long for all semblance of military discipline to fall apart.

Human nature doesn't change. Tech might, but human nature is the very same today as it was when Achilles was arguing with Agamemnon.

Anyway, thanks.

Here is where I think we're having a sticking point;

You're looking at this from the standpoint that I'm arguing that each base has it's own infrastructure and that they have the means to sustain themselves through a nuclear exchange...

Those two things are mutually exclusive;

Yes, each installation maintains some level of self-supporting infrastructure and if something befell the nation that fractured or otherwise disrupted the normal daily functions of US society as a whole the military has the ability to forego use of it's normal operational posture in it's stateside bases, they'll simply assume a combat posture and operate under such.

The military can preform all it's duties without the use of climate controlled prefab buildings, commercial internet access, flushing toilets, flowing water, etc... it does it all the time in forward deployed areas with zero local infrastructure.

It either operates without those creature comforts or it brings them along...yes, the military has entire commands and prepositioned brigade-sized elements attached to it's combat forces that preform the sole tasks and duties of pumping and purifying water, generating power, transporting fuel ( including building entire pipelines systems if required), this is also why their gensets and vehicles are multi-fuel, so they can run on anything from JP-6 to McDonald's fryer oil.

There are also the National Reserve Stockpile, War Reserve Stockpiles, and Army Preposition Stocks where materiel is drawn from.



In the event of a nuclear exchange, the ability of the US Military to wage a traditional war (what is called a LSCO) is entirely degraded and that's fine because they don't plan on waging any and a completely different operational level is enacted that is separate from the above mentioned capabilities; the operational posture moves from tactical to strategic.

Once nukes enter the equation, we're no long talking about the Army base down the road. We're talking sustained, hardened, shielded facilities like Raven Rock, Cheyenne Mountain, Warren AFB, Malmstrom AFB, Minot AFB, STRATCOM bases, and various other military C&C sites, Gov sites, etc...

In that scenario, the Gov or Mil doesn't care about anything outside of Continuity of Operations, which is why they built all those neat, little well stocked bunkers for themselves.



Now, if we're talking sustained, long-term collapse scenario...sure, eventually the military would be dwindled down significantly, but only after a considerable amount of time has passed.

The idea is that a sudden collapse (which would have to be finical, digital/cyber) would result in everything all at once, in-the-blink-of-an-eye just bottoming out and everyone just being underwater...

Personally, I say it'll be a the slow downward spiral we see ourselves in right now, ever greater chaos ensuring as FedGov watches from it's towers...now, sure we'll change how we function daily, but eventually some level of new normalcy will set in, it'll just vary depending on where you are...in the beginning, if it's a city and you're not Gov ir Mil, you'll hurting real bad, but outside the cities there'll be lots of life.

Now, the steam in the Gov/Mil locomotive can run it for a surprising amount of time; the military isn't going to be alone, it's a arm of government after all and government is going to use the military as a glove and those in the military will be happy to be that glove (and this is where the major difference between a societal collapse and Napoleon's Coalition falling apart, those men under Napoleon had something better to go back to...they left because they had better options. If something befalls us, the whole globe is hurting...just not as badly as us) because the hand will provide food, shelter, protection for them and their families.

To re-fire it's steam boiler, the Gov will immediately they'll invoke War Powers and seize control of critical industries and those industries will willingly get in bed with the government just as they did during the Second World War, to protect their properties and interests...and the Mil and FedLaw will secure those critical sites until the chaos has subsided.

Once Gov has control of the cities again after the die-off, they'll advertise work in the now Gov controlled facilities that many people previously worked in and there will be those more than willing to, because the opposite is starvation.

Gov will issue scrip to those under it's employ, said scrip will be used to purchase limited foodstuffs and other small amenities in the Gov operated "stores" within the DHS "green zones".

Not willing to work at a Gov run plant/warehouse or join the military? Good luck, maybe you can hike out to those rednecks in the sticks and get them to share their stuff with you.

Deployed personnel? They'll have no choice. It's serve while getting three hots and a cot...or defect into a country you don't know, who's language you don't speak, with no money, no way to travel and no way to subsist or earning a living.

Now, the only collapse scenario where all of the above falls away is in a nuclear exchange or the Russian's decide they wanna pull a Red Dawn;

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

I agree with Johnny TwoGuns on the issue of a CME that could take out a good amount of the grids (not just power) that we have today, depending on how much of a hit we get, how strong it is, and how long it is. And that, just as the video talked about, could leave a LOT of areas without much in the resources to "keep going" department.

High Altitude based Nuclear based EMP (HEMP), however is not going to do that. The sun easily could. The sun could also have a complete 360 degree by 360 degree (full surface) sunspot overgrowth, turn "black" (infrared levels way up, visible light levels way down) for a short period of time, and then dose out a massive CME in all directions, which would not only take out all of the sats above us, and get rid of most of the long line connected systems, but also give whatever the sun facing side is when the CME gets here a nice toasting that could be explained in language that one only thought one would read in Revelations...

At the lab I was in, we did real world testing of both COTS and Mil systems and devices, not just "play" in the theoretical side of it. And our testing was in real world conditions, at RF and magenetic (H and/or E Field) levels WELL above what any nuclear pulse could create, not just in a lab. HEMP is not the threat.

I also at least partially agree with Johnny TwoGuns and that video, on the issue of the military not coming to help us. Nor will the government come to help anyone. CoG is just that, protect their own a$$es. I disagree in the area of how well the military will continue to work once the civilian grids go down. Most of the military has multiple levels of redundancy, they spend trillions of dollars on keeping all of those levels "available". If the grids go down around them, and their satellites go toasty, they still will have power, will still have supplies (and the ability to get more), and will still have comms. They have more portable (and semi-permanent) alternate (solar and other) power systems than other groups out there, and it is spread out over the globe. Yes, they over-rely on the "high tech" systems (especially comms) now, but they also keep the "old ways" not only handy, but practiced. In fact, if you have a good shortwave receiver with SSB capability, you can listen in this weekend to them practicing with Amateur radio operators. Which I would say is perfect timing with what is also coming to some unknown level this weekend... You can get more info here: https ://www.dodmars.org/mars-comex-information-website/armed-forces-day (copy, paste, remove the space) But I will also post the Frequencies and times here:



The military will continue on communicating, and working. Yes, at a much reduced efficiency, but it will keep working. The question would be to what "point" and if there was a reason to be "working" depending on how bad and how widespread the world's damage was.

And I will agree with the "Time will tell" notion as far as how well anything works after we get a big enough CME hit, as we don't know how any of the systems, OR PEOPLE, will react. We could have a 5-10% CME caused damage occur after a really bad hit, and then have certain groups that also want "the systems down forever" start from there and try to finish things off. And there are plenty of those groups, worldwide.

We could also see a massive CME blast hit and toast 2/3s of the Earth's surface really bad, leaving a lot of smoking debris on what was the sun's facing side, and damage from the magnetic reconnect's blast on the far facing side, which will have crapton of charged particles, UV and visible light, and RF in the ELF to SHF range. Whatever was in space left "orbiting" in space at the time would be toast.

Yes. I read some of your papers on EMPs years ago, and went and read the one someone here posted a link to. My feelings today is that a lot of different weapon systems have been tested and evolved over the last 30 years, EMP, neutron, scaler etc etc; so I am of the opinion that we really don't know what could be pulled out of the hat by either US, or Russia (maybe China but I don't really know how good their war tech is that was not stolen from US and other countries; IE are they original thinkers in war tech?) if and when things became dire enough for someone to drop the curtain.

As I posted elsewhere on here, if some country went to war with us in a life and death situation, they would hit us with dozens or hundreds of weapon systems, maybe EMPs along with some regular nukes, neutron bombs, etc, mostly on the same day or same week.

In that case, who knows.

I knew Canadian Prepper is not well thought of here ( ) nor EMPs. My bad, I should have put a LOT of caveats on my first post. I really put up the vid to see if anyone was interested in the collapse of most of the US military in a grid down forever (by whatever cause) and the guy's views on just hiding out for the first year; which I agree in principle if you could, which I don't think 99.99999% of us could do in a Mad Max USA.

I well know the US military is geared up to survive in some form from a massive, MASSIVE catastrophe. For a while. I have spent my life studying civilizations, and their collapses. If the power went out, world wide, everything would collapse eventually, just as the Bronze Age did with whatever happened several thousand years ago. I was not in the US military. I spent decades in private industry and that included supporting two utilities in Cali, Canada's premier R&D company for telecommunications and digital networking, and one of the Big Five banking companies in their largest US site for that line of work.. I know how poor a lot of the technical class is at the worker bee level (that is a major reason I kept getting 'boosted' up the ladder, a few times at the end of a boot; I didn't think I was worthy ). Plug in cards and see if that works kind of thing.

With a significant die off, there won't be the technical expertise nor the infrastructure to bring anything back on anything except a local level. Of course I am talking a world wide collapse.

The Sun and CME's; oh yeah. I remember all the X class 18's, 19's, 20's and 21's in 2003 and 2004 and the grand daddy that missed us by two days. Add to that all the new information that has come out in the last 2-3 decades, like the magnetic loops or connections the Earth has direct to the Sun; not plasma blow offs, but long lasting magnetic loops. There is a lot we do not know.

I haven't read his book but Robert Schoch of the age of the Sphinx fame who thinks the mass destruction of 12,000 was a solar mini nova. I think it was most likely a confluence of events, with the possibility that asteroids or comets were also involved, maybe in a timeframe of hundreds of years. Just the way I think the giant X class flares that started in the mid 90's and reached their crescendo in the early 2000's were at least in part caused by the giant comets that were coming into our system then.

There was one lady that was on Sarah Westall's channel once or twice, Clif High referenced her, she was part of a small group called the Fxxk It society or something like that. She was discussing some presence or force that for over a month was forcing our magnetic shield to collapse from the 'rear' in relation to the Sun and blow our magnetic field toward the sun. Very strange and unusual; made me wonder if there were more things coming towards us again. But that was a while back, several years. Just a passing curiosity.

Thanks for your response Loup.

 

[SmithJ]

There are also the National Reserve Stockpile, War Reserve Stockpiles, and Army Preposition Stocks where materiel is drawn from.

No, not really. Everything we gave to Ukraine and sold to Israel came out of reserves.

The preposition stocks in Europe are completely gone

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

Here is where I think we're having a sticking point;

You're looking at this from the standpoint that I'm arguing that each base has it's own infrastructure and that they have the means to sustain themselves through a nuclear exchange...

Those two things are mutually exclusive;

Yes, each installation maintains some level of self-supporting infrastructure and if something befell the nation that fractured or otherwise disrupted the normal daily functions of US society as a whole the military has the ability to forego use of it's normal operational posture in it's stateside bases, they'll simply assume a combat posture and operate under such.

The military can preform all it's duties without the use of climate controlled prefab buildings, commercial internet access, flushing toilets, flowing water, etc... it does it all the time in forward deployed areas with zero local infrastructure.

It either operates without those creature comforts or it brings them along...yes, the military has entire commands and prepositioned brigade-sized elements attached to it's combat forces that preform the sole tasks and duties of pumping and purifying water, generating power, transporting fuel ( including building entire pipelines systems if required), this is also why their gensets and vehicles are multi-fuel, so they can run on anything from JP-6 to McDonald's fryer oil.

There are also the National Reserve Stockpile, War Reserve Stockpiles, and Army Preposition Stocks where materiel is drawn from.



In the event of a nuclear exchange, the ability of the US Military to wage a traditional war (what is called a LSCO) is entirely degraded and that's fine because they don't plan on waging any and a completely different operational level is enacted that is separate from the above mentioned capabilities; the operational posture moves from tactical to strategic.

Once nukes enter the equation, we're no long talking about the Army base down the road. We're talking sustained, hardened, shielded facilities like Raven Rock, Cheyenne Mountain, Warren AFB, Malmstrom AFB, Minot AFB, STRATCOM bases, and various other military C&C sites, Gov sites, etc...

In that scenario, the Gov or Mil doesn't care about anything outside of Continuity of Operations, which is why they built all those neat, little well stocked bunkers for themselves.



Now, if we're talking sustained, long-term collapse scenario...sure, eventually the military would be dwindled down significantly, but only after a considerable amount of time has passed.

The idea is that a sudden collapse (which would have to be finical, digital/cyber) would result in everything all at once, in-the-blink-of-an-eye just bottoming out and everyone just being underwater...

Personally, I say it'll be a the slow downward spiral we see ourselves in right now, ever greater chaos ensuring as FedGov watches from it's towers...now, sure we'll change how we function daily, but eventually some level of new normalcy will set in, it'll just vary depending on where you are...in the beginning, if it's a city and you're not Gov ir Mil, you'll hurting real bad, but outside the cities there'll be lots of life.

Now, the steam in the Gov/Mil locomotive can run it for a surprising amount of time; the military isn't going to be alone, it's a arm of government after all and government is going to use the military as a glove and those in the military will be happy to be that glove (and this is where the major difference between a societal collapse and Napoleon's Coalition falling apart, those men under Napoleon had something better to go back to...they left because they had better options. If something befalls us, the whole globe is hurting...just not as badly as us) because the hand will provide food, shelter, protection for them and their families.

To re-fire it's steam boiler, the Gov will immediately they'll invoke War Powers and seize control of critical industries and those industries will willingly get in bed with the government just as they did during the Second World War, to protect their properties and interests...and the Mil and FedLaw will secure those critical sites until the chaos has subsided.

Once Gov has control of the cities again after the die-off, they'll advertise work in the now Gov controlled facilities that many people previously worked in and there will be those more than willing to, because the opposite is starvation.

Gov will issue scrip to those under it's employ, said scrip will be used to purchase limited foodstuffs and other small amenities in the Gov operated "stores" within the DHS "green zones".

Not willing to work at a Gov run plant/warehouse or join the military? Good luck, maybe you can hike out to those rednecks in the sticks and get them to share their stuff with you.

Deployed personnel? They'll have no choice. It's serve while getting three hots and a cot...or defect into a country you don't know, who's language you don't speak, with no money, no way to travel and no way to subsist or earning a living.

Now, the only collapse scenario where all of the above falls away is in a nuclear exchange or the Russian's decide they wanna pull a Red Dawn;

Thanks for all that, a fair bit of work. Although I certainly do not know our military capabilities on a precise technical level, not to where I could just do the job you just did, I've read and watched a lot of information (and geopolitical news and discussions) over the decades on military capabilities of various countries. I get the gist of it. Some things are so self evident like yeah, of course we would destroy Russia in a day, that I never felt the need to mention it (at least one person took umbrage that I didn't mention it).

"Personally, I say it'll be a the slow downward spiral we see ourselves in right now, ever greater chaos ensuring as FedGov watches from it's towers...now, sure we'll change how we function daily, but eventually some level of new normalcy will set in, it'll just vary depending on where you are...in the beginning, if it's a city and you're not Gov ir Mil, you'll hurting real bad, but outside the cities there'll be lots of life."

Yes, I think it will be a decaying society. That is the largest probability.

Unless the JAB does it's job and it's related to Deagle's postings from years ago; and that the millions of military aged single males being let in ARE being let in for some to cause terrorism, terror, and mayhem, while others are being let in to at some point don Blue Helmets and assist the ruling class in turning the country into a vast gulag with all it's attendant horrors. I do not in any way think the JAB effects was unintentional and unplanned.

In such a case, will our fragmented military hang together with it's green haired lipstick and stiletto wearing male Generals in charge to start arresting straight White males? The way 60% of US blacks can't think of a single reason the country need Whites? That is a different set of worries than a total grid down situation, but I can't stop thinking of possibilities and then probabilities.

Thanks for that contribution to the thread.

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

No, not really. Everything we gave to Ukraine and sold to Israel came out of reserves.

The preposition stocks in Europe are completely gone

and the Strategic Oil Reserve is down to 17% or so, and is not being refilled. BTW, the ruling class sold it to China, our real threat. Gee, makes me think there is a large game being run on all of us, and a lot of people still can't face that reality.

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

You’re just a bundle of joy, aren’t you?

Don't forget the moving North Pole and ongoing magnetic field reversal!

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

If the public sewer system backs up methane will be the least of your worries. More like raw sewage blowing up out of the toilet, shower and sink. Happened twice to my MIL before she had a back flow preventer installed. Not really an issue if you are on your own septic.

Not high on my list of worries. He mentioned it, so I mentioned it to highlight it was one of millions of things/events no one has thought of because it hasn't happened or failed yet.

 

[Reasonable Rascal]

Someone is still an expert in their own mind.

RR

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

Super specialized space age technology. From Amazon. And any decent plumbing supply house.
View attachment 474092

Too high tech. Though I have used a plunger to great effect in two countries.

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

View: https://youtu.be/9QCA3jouCKk?si=JrWbmMtZ8-5PEpwU


This is from this morning. 5-9-24.
I do not believe in coincidence.

That was unusual. I've never seen so many full halo CME's pop off one after another like that, and I've been watching CMEs and the C, M, X class flares all the way back to the 90's when Major Dames showed up on the Art Bell Show. You can knock the Major if you want, but the world was not talking about these things at that time except in obscure scientific journals. Luckily they were all small X class flares.

The internet didn't exist back then like it does today. Prior to the internet you had to go to book stores and libraries to do research.